It is super strange to me that the Grail Ambrosia infusion takes 8-12 hours, while the Sacred ("mycelium-overgrown?" Wine takes 1-2 months? The Wine better be a lot stronger? Otherwise what would the point be?

This confuses me. Does the Tea also benefit as much from dilution? It is said in the book that the effects of both the undiluted Grail Ambrosia and the undiluted Sacred Wine were both worlds apart from the effects of their diluted counterparts.....how does the tea fall into place with this? Does diluting the tea make it more potent, more psychedelic, and less disassociative an experience as diluting the two elixirs mentioned in the book supposedly does?

I thought this property of increased potency with dilution was what set this Wine and Ambrosia apart from regular water infusions/teas made with the Amanita Muscaria?

The grail sounds much easier and better - except it rarely works because it gets infected so easy. The wine is more work - but it gets much more consistent and effective results mainly just because it doesnt get infected so easy. Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought the two month period was a curing stage for the wine after it was already extracted - leaving the wine on the fleece for 2 months would drown the fleece.... So you could make more wine while your first batch is curing I think. (I could have read that part wrong - I read the wine section a while back).

There is also the Living Bread recipe to look into...


I have not diluted my tea and dont think you would need to. Tea is extracted with enough water from the start and the extraction is only 20 minutes instead of 8-12 hours ect....

I think the main aspect that sets them apart from other extractions is the ability to grow the fleece so that you have a larger supply of medicine. Without growing the fleece I cannot think of any reason to really do the longer extractions except that they taste good and have a gentle character (tea tastes good too though).

It seems instead to me, that they are doing doing in letting the Wine jugs sit with a poly-fill clogged mouth for a month or two, is actually, unlike the grail, creating a "Wine"-based liquid culture of Amanita Muscaria. Something that would, I imagine, contain far more actives than the 8-hour ambrosia....

As I was reading, the fleece turned out to not be A. Muscaria supposedly, but an "endosymbiote" of it....so perhaps this Sacred wine is a living culture of the Muscaria endosymbiote (which supposedly also produces Muscimol and Ibotenic Acid.)

Would it not then make sense that it would then be right for one to heat and cook the wine? It would be like starting with fresh muscaria, only a liquid culture, right? One would have to grow the muscimol-and-ibotenic acid-producing "liquid mushroom" in Sacred Wine form, and then "react" it (as they put it) to convert all the ibotenic acid the Sacred Wine produced into more muscimol, before use......

Is this far-fetched?



Also, i'm not too sure why they would not recommend simply using more starting volume of liquid food rather than diluting it later, but they seem to want to make a point that it totally makes the difference, so that makes me scratch my head.....they basically make it sound like it makes the difference between an intoxicated/disoriented style experience, and a psychedelic/euphoric/entheogenic one...pretty interesting imho..

Yes, it isnt Amanita Muscaria growing - just a similar fungus. It grows as a fleece - the book has pictures of the fleece. It isnt a liquid fungus - but maybe it can survive in liquid.... I would have to read it again to really make sure what they are talking about.... The pictures I have seen all had the white/grey fleece in it though.

Actually I didnt diluted it. Next trial I will do and see if that makes any difference.
How I would love to breed the fleece and have a neverending supply of this goodness.
I have to try out different teks I suppose from the book.
Then if you can breed it, it works the same as Kombutchas or sourdough bread culture.
But each time this dark grey comes I throw away the whole thing. I have totry again with non organic grape juice ( maybe less contamns, the author found non organic pasteurized grape juice worked the best ).

The fleece is supposed to be white or grey, so you may be throwing out good fleece. I think the colors you want to avoid are yellow, green, blue ect.... But white/grey is good.

Well, I wondered if I rememebr well it says fleece is white but turn grey if he sees light ... SO I decided it was suspect but again, I should read and maybe try even the grey one ... We need to compile efforts, understanding, and research together ...
Next one I do, if it turns grey I make picture and post here.

The book said that the progressively darker grayness is due to aging of the mycelium as it consumes more and more of the sugar/food source.....it says that the optimal time to harvest the wine is when the fleece is of a uniform light gray.

The book makes it sound like the fleece is just a byproduct of the wine production and if anything, just a way to innoculate more wine jugs.....it really sounds like they want the wine to sit about a month while the mycelium spread throughout the juice......READ PAGES 76 and 77 guys....the wine is to then be cooked and "reacted" to increase in potency 3-4 times and it exonerated more paychedelic and less nauseating. It is then to be diluted to further promote potency and further reduce 'll-effects.

This is different from the Grail ambrosia. That seems to be a "light" version of this wine. The ambrosia is just some water that's been in contact with either mycelium on the walls of a grail or with just some dried amanita muscaria, long enough to absorb some actives......THIS SEEMS LIKE A DIFFERENT ANIMAL ......this wine actually has the mycelial organism grown throughout it as a foodsource, and then it is all cooked to basically convert all the ibotenic acid in this fresh, new living-organism-filled food source into muscimol.....correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like a recipe for FAR MORE ACTIVES than the Grail ambrosia could offer....

My grail ambrosia would start to grow new culture in the jar I kept the juice in after a couple days.... After I strained it off and kept it in a jar it would start growing in the jar after a couple days in the fridge (still drank it - similar effect as when I drank it fresh). It is the same fleece for sure, though maybe the wine is a little stronger....

The impression I got from talking to and reading posts on the Ambrosia sites forum is that the sacred wine and grail tech make a similar "ambrosia/wine" once it is diluted, but that the sacred wine tech makes more of it and is more reliable. This "ambrosia" is lighter in character and effect then other methods of ingesting amanita - it is very gentle and pleasant but not as strong as just eating the amanita somehow or making tea. The character is also a little different - very playful and sweet. Very pleasant.

I think later today or tomorrow I may be at "Garden of the Ancients" which is a store/garden hosted by a few Ambrosia Society people. Maybe some of them will be around and I can talk to people who have been working with these techs for a while.... I am visiting my dad in Texas and their store is here so I though I would go peruse what they have and hangout a bit. Maybe I will learn something interesting....

The character of the ambrosia is different from that of the wine, or that of tea/eating fruit?

Please report back on what they have to say.....I'm very interested in both the differences between.reacted vs unreacted wine, and between diluted and undiluted.....and whether this would translate over to simple teas/water infusions as a method of making them more "psychedelic" as supposedly dilution does.......

Why does one "react" wine but ambrosia needs not be "reacted"??

Went to this store yesterday... Pretty funny experience with the family - we bought some potted San Pedros to plant in their garden and then bought a bag of amanita muscaria which I made tea with and the whole family drank together... First family entheogen experience! Kinda just happened and I was pretty surprised the whole family was down with it lol....

So the main Amanita guy wasnt there yesterday... I did talk to some of the girls for a bit - they said the finished wine and ambrosia have a similar effect but the wine preserves better. Sounds like none of them really make grails because they dont work well - they only do the wine.

I dont know about reacted vs unreacted, but I know diluted is more pleasant then they undiluted. Undiluted often makes you very thirsty as well, so you will probably end up drinking water and diluting it in your stomach anyways. They told me sometimes they dont dilute it when they want to make an amanita tincture - the main guy apparently uses this tincture topically to help his sciatica.

This is becoming really funny and misterious ... Like the mushroom itself <! <i hope you will meet the main Ambrosia Society Dude, ( the original Creator passed away as I understood ) to gather some tips to successfully produce wine and living bread.
So, I never attempted the wine making, and I need to read thoroughly again.
The ambrosia I drunk was very dreamy and mellow, relaxing... Definitely psychoactive, which would fall into a natural anxyolitic kind of effect ( strong GABA agonism action ? ).
Let's see how this curious culture goes ...

Loving how this thread is progressing!

How would you say the experience of the ambrosia compares to a psilocybe experience?

Do you feel ambrosia would synergize well with psilocybe mushroom?

SWIM has only once had the opportunity to try the amanita muscaria....to little avial. No effects from anything from 2g to 14g dry material....they looked horrible and they were online procured (is that allowed in this discussion as the subject matter is unregulated?)....SWIM even went to the extent of taking the last 14g with an maoi level syrian rue predose....still no effects. The caps were flat and brownish red...bad batch?

Do you feel that the effects of the Ambrosia are different enough from those of a simple amanita tea or eating the mushroom, that such a long book on the subject matter is warranted? The book makes the felt difference (psychedelically and euphorically speaking) sound like night and day....

Ambrosia and psilocybin are kinda similar but pretty different.... Psilocybin is more visual for me and racier. Amanita is more chill for me, but it may effect others different. Amanita also comes on way slower and lasts longer.

They go great together. I feel like the Amanita leads the experience while psilocybin gives it a huge push of force and power. I go deepest when I combine them - actually some of my deepest ceremonies ever have been with this mix. A little of each can go a long way in this situation.

Sounds like you got bunk amanita before or did not prepare them right.... One of the two or both.

The difference between ambrosia and tea isnt huge - the ambrosia is a little more gentle and seductive maybe, but mostly pretty similar....

BTW - no need to swim. Everyone knows what you are talking about and it offers zero legal protection. It is also a phrase that is only associated with recreational and illegal drug use (amanitas are legal BTW).

Sorry, bad habit and paranoia.

Any updates on what the deal is with reacted vs unreacted wine and with the way dilution changes the experience?

OMAIGAWWWWWWWW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj6d-UOeG24

Really guys?? No thoughts?