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Does Intelligence Matter in the DMT Experience? Options
 
null24
#41 Posted : 11/17/2015 5:49:33 PM

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Interesting thread. This has been something I've thought quite a bit about.

When I was initiated, I went on a small mission to turn some people on. I was engaged socially with the crowd at my methadone clinic and felt that my trips had moved me into a place where I would be able to deal with my addiction and wanted others to have the same. But it didn't work.

I'd give it to people who would take a large hit, but not enough to breakthrough and just laugh and say things line " wow man, I'm f****d up". That depressed me and I stopped and focused only on myself and on finding a community of line minded folks.

As far as it delivering your expectations, I had been heavily studying qabala, occultism and the western mystery tradition, and expected some sort of sephirotic vision, but instead was shown vistas and was related concepts far more aligned with Taoism, Tibetan Buddhism and eastern esoteric ism. These were not areas of no relation to me, but I had given up those studies decades prior and did not know much of the concepts related to me. I felt as I was downloaded with information from some on high source regarding pranayama and other advanced meditation visionary practice. In fact these techniques were so effective I had to stop practicing them or risk serious depersonalizations and possible psychosis.

So, DOES intelligence matter in the DMT exp? I know it makes me feel infinitesimally small minded when I'm in hyperspace, but also feel that the more wisdom, knowledge and experience one has, the more useful it is. So maybe it's not intelligence, but knowledge, and it's our ability to cognate, or intelligence that allows us to integrate the experience into our lives?
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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DisEmboDied
#42 Posted : 11/17/2015 8:44:31 PM

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Well, it for me too has also been the case that I was revealed certain things about culture of which I had no idea existed before I did a dose of God particles.


I once smoked some acaia goo, and felt like a serpent king, I felt aligned, sitting on a throne, and had a serpent go through my spine and rest onto the top of my forehead and/or crown.

I went went back on my merry way and couldn't figure out anything about it. I didn't think much about it at the time.

After some reseach and talking to others about it, two major mythical things came up, Kundalini had aligned my chakras and had created a power feeling like a king, and/or Egyptian pharohs wore and were buried with serpernts on their forehead:

https://www.google.com/s...#imgrc=5e1Fg1pCB8n85M%3A

Also, my friend who had no idea of chakras experienced and described them perfectly well.

There are many other examples.

But it is still also the case that I have seen and experienced the themes that I was studying at the time. I guess it is a maximization of the brain, which conjures up the past/genes, or connects to a higher dimensional internet. Or something like that...
Meditate before you venture, take it seriously, use it as medicinal—it is good psychotherapy if needed. Realize that you, the Earth, others, and the Universe are all one and the same process. Then take that knowledge back to become, as you already are, one with nature. Eternity in every moment. Divinity in every particle. All is one organism.



 
Anamnesia
#43 Posted : 11/17/2015 9:03:42 PM

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Integration is incredibly important - as important as the jump into forever itself is.
damnit disembodied - it's your fault i'm hijacking again Love
But those images on google that you linked fired up a deep curiosity i've had for awhile.
All the talk about kundalini (the serpent power), chakras, and the egyptians -
well I have something for you guys that'll make you scratch your heads.
Basically, I'm suspicious ancient serpents from another world/dimension were partying with the egyptians - not to mention how the symbol of the snake is, literally, all over the place.
Here it is:

( http://www.amazon.com/gp...h_aui_d_detailpage_o07_ )
[The Book is "Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master by Sri M]

In this book, Sri M writes the following testimony and it's been haunting me for awhile, and now is the time when I introduce this bizarre of all bizarre to the community for scrutiny. I must preface and say that I am to a point where I am so astounded by it - more so by the possbility that it very well may be true, than the possibility this man simply made it all up. Having read his books, and seen him speak on youtube, I trust him. I can't really help it.
As Swami Vivekananda put it: I can hardly believe it, but I don't not believe it either. You decide.

••••••••••••••

Here you go: Chapter entitled " Sarpa Loka " (Taken straight from the book linked above)
by Sri M.

On the third night at Arundhati cave, I was woken up by what I at first thought was the rumbling of thunder. I opened my eyes and saw Babaji in his usual sitting posture, back towards me, silhouetted by the light of the Dhuni. I looked beyond, and from between two parting clouds, emerged something that was roughly the size of a full moon, but could not be the moon. Instead of the cool, silvery, white light shed by the moon, this object was a glowing ball of fire, and as it moved closer the rumbling became louder. Then it came towards the cave and landed right on the Dhuni, with the sound of a thunderclap. I was so scared that I could not even sit up, but Babaji sat upright like a statue, unaffected and unmoved. I wanted to call out to him, but my vocal chords refused to function. Somehow, I pulled myself up to a sitting position. My whole body trembled with fear. A strange spectacle unfolded before my astounded eyes.

The rumbling had stopped and there was utter silence. The fireball, which was about two feet in diameter, split vertically into two, and out of it emerged something that caused goose pimples all over my body. It was a large snake, with a hood like a cobra, glowing electric blue, as if made of a transparent, violet, glass like material, with electric filaments lit inside. The snake-like creature’s eyes glowed, and it hissed softly. My fear vanished the moment I saw the creature bend down and touch Babaji’s feet with its hood. Babaji blessed it by touching its head with his right hand, and then did something, which for a second, made me wonder if what I was seeing was a silly dream, or reality. He hissed in reply.

The blue cobra straightened up and sat facing Babaji. A hissing conversation went on for quite some time. Then Babaji said, “Madhu, come forward and see the deputy chief of the Sarpa Loka.” I moved forward and carefully sat behind Babaji. The snake hissed. Babaji said, “Bow down to Nagaraj.” I bowed low before the snake. At close quarters, I could see that he was quite big and had intelligent sparkling eyes. The snake hissed and touched my head with his forked tongue. I found that I was not the least bit frightened, although I could feel a mild electric shock passing through my body. Then abruptly, it slithered back into the globe, the two halves of which clicked shut, and with a rumbling sound, the globe took off and soon vanished in the clouds.

I could not but ask Babaji to explain. “Babaji,” I said, “I deserve an explanation. If I said this to anybody, they would think I am utterly crazy, or that I am concocting some kind of fiction, so I shall keep this to myself. But please, explain to me.” “Yes,” Babaji said, “you are right. Not many will believe this experience of yours but you will have to share it with the public, when you write your autobiography. It does not matter who believes or does not, but I will explain to you. Truth is often stranger than fiction.

“In the Milky Way, there exists a stellar system with seven planets and eighteen moons. One of these planets is called Sarpa Loka, and is entirely inhabited by highly evolved, hooded snakes. The serpents are called the Naga devatas. The person you saw is the deputy chief of this realm and he is called Nagaraja. The supreme head of the Nagas is the five-hooded golden serpent, known in ancient Indian texts, as Anantha.

“Thousands of years ago, when humanity was still in infant stages of mental evolution, there was regular contact with Sarpa Loka. The wise and evolved Nagas frequented the earth, and spent long periods here, teaching and educating human beings. The snake worship you come across in all ancient civilizations is a tribute to the advanced Nagas of yore. Their images were venerated for the deep wisdom that they possessed. They also taught the secret of the kundalini energy initially, again symbolized by a serpent. Patanjali who gave the world the Ashtanga Yoga Sutras, was himself a Naga, and is depicted as half man and half snake.

The snake on the pharaoh’s head and the snake coiled around the yogi-god Shiva, are all symbolic representations of wisdom and power, imparted to certain human beings by the Naga teachers. “But then, as always seems to happen, human beings, as they became more powerful, began to also become more self-centred and cunning. Humans, or at least a majority of them, were ready to even kill for personal gain. Some felt threatened by the intellectually and spiritually superior Nagas, and forgetting their indebtedness, began to use the powers that they had acquired from the Nagas against them. “At one point, there were large scale massacres of the Nagas. The Supreme Naga Chief decided to recall the Nagas from earth, and cut all connections, except with some human beings who were highly evolved spiritually.

Overnight, they were transported back to Sarpa Loka. A small number of Nagas, who were either sick or too old, or in rare cases, rebels who defied the orders of the Supreme Chief thinking that they still could do something with the human beings, got left behind. “The serpents and snakes that exist in the world today are the descendents of those who were left behind, and who, through years of in-breeding, have become retarded, and no longer possess the great qualities of their ancestors.

However, as I told you, the channels of contact were kept open with highly evolved beings of the human race. When the great Sai Nath of Shirdi left his body for three days, and returned on the fourth day, to the great astonishment of the general public who had thought that he had died, he told his close circle of associates that he had gone to settle a dispute in some other world. “The other world he spoke of, was the Sarpa Loka. The dispute, which I cannot reveal to you, was not completely settled, and has come up again. Nagaraj here went to Sri Guru for help, and on his suggestion, came to me to discuss the matter.”

“Babaji,” I said, “all this sounds so bizarre, that if I ever wrote a biography – which I might do, at some point, since you say so, the readers would either dismiss it as the ravings of an unbalanced mind, or as pure fiction. I don’t care. So let it be.” Babaji laughed. “I repeat again,” he said, “truth is stranger than fiction, and even if the story stimulates their imagination, there is hope that they might at some point realize that there are greater realms of consciousness which cannot be comprehended by dry logic, and currently available levels of intelligence.

“However, by the time you attempt your biography, even the scientific world would have expanded its knowledge of outer space and other planets. The suspicion that life exists, or existed on other planets or stellar systems, will be strengthened by the discovery of water, and other conditions suitable for the evolution and sustenance of life forms in hitherto unsuspected parts of the cosmos. Perhaps, some unprejudiced scientist might consider it worthwhile to at least give your story the attention it deserves. Beyond that, considering the stupid attitude of dismissing anything that does not fall under the category of ‘established norms’ as unscientific, have no hope. “Now, you must be tired. Go sleep.”

••••••••••••••••
Genesis is Now, the Mind is Incarnate.
 
DisEmboDied
#44 Posted : 11/17/2015 9:05:23 PM

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Cazman 043 wrote

"One could say it is the karmic journey of the soul. The Karma will take them only to where they need to go in that moment, and no deeper, one has to be ready to be awoken, if they are not ready, then DMT, meditation, yoga, whatever the practice, they will not be awoken, for they want to stay asleep."


I guess I alwasy just assumed that no matter how asleep one was, that DMT would force an awakening, its power is so strong that no defense mechanisms can resist.

I guess I was wrongs, because it only seems to have caused a spiritual awakening for like 3 out of the 12 say people I have dosed.

I have always assumed that if someone took any psychedelic, then that person would be at least temporarily awakened, and then go on a spiritual journey for life.

Every person I have ever met who has taked LSD at least once in their life has been spiritually or at least on some kind of meta-path ever since. Since DMT is stronger I figured it would force an awakening path faster and stronger like it has done in myself.

I also wonder if some people have the eperience, come down, try to act tough, say it was nothing, and then leave, and spend the next days, months, years thinking about it privately.

I guess there are so many variables, and not every person who takes DMT or a psychedelic will find any awakening or spirituality in it.
Meditate before you venture, take it seriously, use it as medicinal—it is good psychotherapy if needed. Realize that you, the Earth, others, and the Universe are all one and the same process. Then take that knowledge back to become, as you already are, one with nature. Eternity in every moment. Divinity in every particle. All is one organism.



 
brilliantlydim
#45 Posted : 12/13/2015 2:42:42 AM

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I think intelligence would matter, but what is your definition of intelligence? I don't think intelligence is limited to, or synonymous with post secondary education. I think there is a wide spectrum of intelligence. A PhD in rocket sciencetry wouldn't look to bright shivering away in the baron ice and snow fields up north as the Inuit guy next to him builds a house out of the snow and pulls food out of the ice.

Perhaps the drive to find deeper meaning is the impetus for many that go onto higher studies, giving you a higher ratio of "educated" people finding deeper meaning in DMT and other entheogens.

There is also the factor/hurdle of one being able to articulate what they got from the experience to another. There may be a lot more going on under the hood then what some is able or wants to share. Probably more true with entheogenic experiences.

I am uneducated and I am getting the deepest of deep out of entheogens, but as you can see my ability to illustrate it is quite lacking (maybe due to my not being educated).

 
thymamai
#46 Posted : 12/13/2015 4:00:55 AM

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If you think so, then maybe it does. But what is intelligence?
 
Gonzukes
#47 Posted : 12/14/2015 8:23:01 AM

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Everyone here has made some really great points Very happy! DMT definitely isn't something that can be easily understood, so I feel like the better you are at understanding and learning, the more profound the experience will be to you. I mean, I've only done DMT once, and I can only recall 1% of what happened. That 1% was some of the most profound, magical, perspective-expanding, paradigm shattering stuff I've ever experienced.

Anyways, here's another way of looking at this situation:

I feel like if you treat DMT as if it were just a drug that gets you high, it will often just be a drug that gets you high.

However if you've done the research (or, even not I suppose), and you are curious and passionate about the mysteries within and without, then it will be much more.

In my opinion, it has a lot to do with intention. If your intentions are to learn, you will learn. If your intentions are to do drugs, you'll just get high.
 
TGO
#48 Posted : 12/14/2015 10:05:19 PM

Music is alive and in your soul. It can move you. It can carry you. It can make you cry! Make you laugh. Most importantly, it makes you feel! What is more important than that?

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Gonzukes wrote:

In my opinion, it has a lot to do with intention. If your intentions are to learn, you will learn. If your intentions are to do drugs, you'll just get high.


I can agree with this although with most psychedelics, and especially DMT, going into it "just to get high" usually results in being slapped around a bit by it. I wasn't ever using DMT just to get high but for a while I wasn't respecting the whole process as well as I should have, which resulted in some frightening and/or dark experiences.

I am thankful for all my experiences though...good, bad, and anything in between. After all, you can't really appreciate the good without the bad, the light without the dark etc. etc...cliché, I know! In relation to this thread though, I think intelligence matters most when it comes to the integration aspect. I always ask myself, "Am I learning anything?" The answer is always, "Yes."

If it ever comes to a point where I feel like I'm not learning anything from it, it will be a sad and confusing day and a reevaluation of my life will be in order. Fortunately, I don't see that day ever arising.
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Gonzukes
#49 Posted : 12/15/2015 1:16:15 AM

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The Grateful One wrote:
I can agree with this although with most psychedelics, and especially DMT, going into it "just to get high" usually results in being slapped around a bit by it. I wasn't ever using DMT just to get high but for a while I wasn't respecting the whole process as well as I should have, which resulted in some frightening and/or dark experiences.

I am thankful for all my experiences though...good, bad, and anything in between. After all, you can't really appreciate the good without the bad, the light without the dark etc. etc...cliché, I know! In relation to this thread though, I think intelligence matters most when it comes to the integration aspect. I always ask myself, "Am I learning anything?" The answer is always, "Yes."

If it ever comes to a point where I feel like I'm not learning anything from it, it will be a sad and confusing day and a reevaluation of my life will be in order. Fortunately, I don't see that day ever arising.


Great point! I definitely agree with you on this, and I have no doubt the people who abuse it just to get high will have a crazy hyperslap to set them straight.

But yeah, that also solidifies that intellect/thirst for knowledge attributes to the DMT experience, even if you have a horrific experience, you still learn from it.
 
Global
#50 Posted : 12/15/2015 6:10:48 AM

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I think you can go in to get high, only to realize there is so much more to it than you thought. I do believe in the transformative power of DMT (sometimes). I don't think it always just amplifies who you are. There is a lot of room for development and change.
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
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#51 Posted : 12/15/2015 11:47:06 AM

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As Disembodied mentioned, I've noticed in my dance with dmt that as I've worked towards the shedding of karma and applying the lessons learned from dmt that upon return I've gone deeper and deeper which eventually lead to what I'd refer to as THE message. Maybe many people just aren't paying attention to subtle information the experience is giving them which isn't allowing them to take that particular teaching on board, apply it and then move forward and deeper into the experience.

I'm sure that some people based on how they've lived their life and what they've put their attention towards are more open to going deep straight away but I think everyone could go deep with proper guidance / attitude

Obviously just my opinion but that's what I've noticed with people close to me.

Also I thought I'd add that on some of my deepest experiences I experience a moment before I was fired down winding tunnels where I felt like something deep within the nature of my self was being weighed / Examined.
 
TGO
#52 Posted : 12/16/2015 12:43:15 AM

Music is alive and in your soul. It can move you. It can carry you. It can make you cry! Make you laugh. Most importantly, it makes you feel! What is more important than that?

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Global wrote:
I think you can go in to get high, only to realize there is so much more to it than you thought. I do believe in the transformative power of DMT (sometimes). I don't think it always just amplifies who you are. There is a lot of room for development and change.


Absolutely. One can go into it just to get high, but I wouldn't want to be that person, and I hope that people seriously consider what they are getting themselves into before going in with that kind of intention...

But of course, not everyone is in it to learn something or to better themselves, and that is okay if that is what floats their boat. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the potential to learn from DMT is immense and throwing away that aspect of the experience seems a bit pointless and wasteful, IMHO.

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