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Limonene suitable for wet A/B? Options
 
FLeP
#1 Posted : 10/22/2015 6:52:48 PM

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Hi guys, I've scoured the internet looking for an answer to this question but no one seems to have asked it. Hard to believe I know. It's a non-polar solvent but every tek I've seen use it is a dry tek. I've got all this cactus tea and would like to move from xylene to limonene if possible.
 

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TGO
#2 Posted : 10/22/2015 7:40:44 PM

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I am unsure if limonene is suitable for wet teks (edit: upon further investigation it seems it is suitable! Thanks Endlessness!), I thought I read somewhere why but can't find it now. Of course take it with a grain of salt because I am unsure. I am sure someone else on here knows better than me! Very happy

However,

You could evaporate your tea into a goop/powder and then base (with lime, 69ron stated that this was the best base for cactus in a limonene extraction) and pull with limonene. Salt out with vinegar and you are left with impure mescaline acetate. Basically, 69ron's tek but on evaporated tea rather than dried cactus. I've never tried doing it that way but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Edit:

Here are some thoughts from 69ron that may be useful, especially the bold part:

69ron wrote:
From 200 grams of San Pedro dried outer flesh, SWIM got slightly over 7 grams (3.5% yield). That's the highest yield SWIM ever got. Of course you need good quality cactus for that type of yield.

SWIM played around with different bases, different solvents, different acids, and finally found this particular method to be the highest yielding so far.

This is an extremely high yielding tech because it's optimized specifically for mescaline. When extracting mescaline there are a few key points that need to be followed that SWIM discovered: A - don't use heat for the initial extraction because it degrades the alkaloids in their natural state in the cactus; B - get rid of the mucilage which hinders extraction; C - don't have any available water during the freebase extraction phase because it hinders extraction; D - use a non-polar solvent that freebase mescaline is highly soluble in but not one that dissolves everything in the plant (bad choices would be chloroform, DCM, etc. because too much junk would get into the final product).

The initial extraction is a straight to base (STB) extraction except that the amount of water used is extremely small so there's essentially no water layer to separate and not enough water present to hold any freebase mescaline. That's important. That's one of the main reasons why this tech gives really good results for mescaline. Freebase mescaline is water soluble so in order to better make it go into the non-polar solvent, we make sure there's no water to hold on to it.

The other reason this tech is so high yielding is because calcium hydroxide destroys the mucilage. The cactus has horribly slimy mucilage which helps prevent the extraction of mescaline. The mucilage acts like glue preventing the solvents from getting to the mescaline. Because the calcium hydroxide reacts with and breaks down the mucilage, the base and non-polar solvent are both allowed better access to the mescaline.

The third reason this tech is so high yielding is because no heat is used in the initial extraction phase. SWIM has read many reports of heat reducing the alkaloid content of San Pedro if used for the initial extraction phase. Apparently the natural form of alkaloids present in the cactus are not heat stable. SWIM has read this from dozens of different people making this claim. I assume it's true. Apparently mescaline acetate is heat stable, so at the end a little heat can be used to help concentrate the mescaline acetate without loss of alkaloids.

The fourth reason this tech is so high yielding is because d-limonene just happens to extract freebase mescaline really well. Much better than xylene can and unlike DCM or chloroform, it doesn't extract a lot of other junk along with the mescaline.

This tech will outperform a standard wet STB based on sodium hydroxide and xylene, and will also far outperform a standard A/B extraction for the reasons outlined above.

The thing I like to most about this tech is that all the ingredients are relatively safe to handle. There's no dangerous caustic lye (sodium hydroxide), no toxic solvents or fumes, no dangerous acids. It's all safe food grade material that's used. And it's relatively simple. You don't need pH papers to monitor the pH. You don't need any fancy lab equipment. It's nice to use a separatory funnel at the end to separate the vinegar from the d-limonene, buy it's not really needed. You can just decant the d-limonene to separate it from the vinegar. Also, you can re-use the same d-limonene a couple of times to save money.

The only downside I see to this tech is that the final product takes a while to dry and it dries to a waxy texture (somewhat like DMT but more waxy), and it's not 99% pure white odorless mescaline acetate, it's about 85-95% pure depending on the alkaloids present in the initial cactus material used. There's no easy way that SWIM knows of to clean up the mescaline acetate to get it up to 99% purity. However, even at 85% purity, it's good enough to put into capsules.

To get 99% purity, you can use dilute HCl instead of vinegar and then wash the resulting goo with acetone to get it very light tan, and wash with 99% IPA to get it white and odorless.
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FLeP
#3 Posted : 10/22/2015 9:00:43 PM

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Thanks for the reply TGO. I am a bit reluctant to switch gears at this point. Seems like dry tek is the current standard. Should have noticed that beforehand. A curious update is that I left some reduced tea in the fridge overnight and there is a considerable amount of a khaki precipitate on the bottom spotted with light brown. I acidified with citric acid. Anybody had this happen? Can anyone shed light on what this precipitate is and whether my mescaline is inside it or my tea?
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 10/22/2015 11:27:58 PM

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BLAB tek is a wet tek and uses limonene. So yeah, its just fine to use it with normal wet teks.

As for the precipitate in your case, I'd suspect that is not mescaline. You could filter it away (and keep it separately just in case to try to re-extract from it later in case yield from the liquid is bad), and extract the liquid after basifying it.
 
 
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