DS: a subtle vine experience is not totally in vain, at least you had all those amazon plant biochemicals inside that have a good effects on your health.

In traditional aya circles the subtle experience is expected to happen in X-percent of cases, It's not really that uncommon. The issue of "expectations" is at hand here. I've been in circles where I had nothing else than a thoroughly rotten bad feeling from begin to end, I'd rather had a subtle experience instead, but I take it as a necessary lesson, perhaps yet not fully understood, perhaps never will, but I trust it simply had to happen. At least I strayed from groups more and do more solo with good results. Perhaps your lesson is to take care of the spine? I can easily imagine that this serious back pain problem could also prevented you from going-in. I feel for you, get better!

Thanks for the positive feedback.

It's all of my own doing to some extent.

I took along a cushion along but instead of placing it behind my lower back for support, I sat on it and then lay back which was straining my back.

I'm always grateful for vine intake. No matter what the effects. It's some magical stuff. I'm sure it can only do me good.

This Wednesday I might go again. *250 + 70* taken together . If I do, ill post the results.

Its just nice to know that there is more to come and I will feel its full power one day.

Thanks again .

One of the traditional uses of syrian rue is as a medicine for lumbago.

What we found in our last pharma experience and very effective was to take an accommodation low dose of harmalas before the actual full dose. Worked amazing and had guaranteed success after dosing the fumarates.Also I've seen this being spoken about by Jees here and in another post he made about pre dosing.

Sounds interesting.
I cant wait to get some where special with the vine because then I want to give the Rue a go. I have 20g of Rue Alks just sitting there for over a year.

I did read that thread, so I will pre dose 100mg 40 mins before the real dose.

I'm a little un easy with tripping. Changa I'm 100% comfortable with but don't like thinking, "how long do I have to endure this."

In my teens I did a few LSD trips, one at work

Also I did some ketamine and I just wanted it to stop.

So I'm not a big tripping fan .

Although saying that, Pharma has been nothing but pleasant so far.

The last few days have been a bit odd. That Pharma took all the energy out of me.

When employing rue medicinally, it may be best to grind and eat the actual seeds or make a tea from them. There are many potentially useful compounds in the seeds that do not end up in the extract.

Also, dosage should be a lot lower than that typically needed for full MAO inhibition.

Interesting .
It's for my back pain. That's my new line

It does that,doesn't it?It also takes me a couple of days to get back on track,feel up to whatever stuff needs to be done.The foods i eat post pharma exp. also have a noticeable impact on my energy for the days to come.But some fresh fruit to have around most of the day,having light meals 3 a day,hydration and 3mg melatonin to aid my sleep cycle and i'm back and new in 2 days tops.

Yeh my physical energy has been pathetic.
The last time I did Pharma I had a severe craving for vegetables so that's all I ate for a few days.
I defiantly feel more thoughtful after pharma or maybe that's a polite way of saying dopey.

This is a hard one to write up.

Today I took 100mg Yellow Vine Harmalas.

Waited one hour then took 200mg (2.6mg/kg). At the same time I took 40mg Spice.

On my last outing the dosage was 60mg spice but taken an hour after the Vine Alks so this time correcting that mistake I was expecting big things, even with a lesser dose.

Nothing happened is the long and short of it.

I felt a bit odd-ish, slight Vine effects. Dodgy stomach.

The only slight mistake I made was that in the morning I did a big dose of Rape (Ha-pey).
That's a secret mixture of plants from the Amazon ,blown up the nose. Medicinal Snuff.

I don't see that as being the problem though.

In my mind the problem is the inconsistency in effects concerning psychedelics .

Cheers

The FB vine alks I make, then I need at least 500 mg of it. Better is 600. I don't know the exact composition but those are my numbers regardless of the composition.
Perhaps you are a bit on the same track and had not sufficient maoi with 300, that could explain it.

Too bad you had no liftoff.

How did you ingest? freebase or salted? gelcapped or solution? If gelcapped, were the harmalas and dmt in the same cap? I get most predictable effects from a solution of salts.

You can keep an extra dose or two of 50 - 100 mg harmalas and 25 mg dmt. If the liftoff doesn't happen after in an hour, take the extra dose. If after the second hour still nothing - repeat.

Could you try a control session with similar amounts, but using rue derived harmalas instead of vine derived?

On the subject of dosages, found this on erowid, see pic attached.

I know very well some people do those doses but these should IMO not be the regular advise for general public. Dosing information can't be cut'n dry correct without any further clarification of beginner vs advanced and/or means of administration that affect the outcome severe. Voila

Have you tried taking the two together? I used to have issues with consistency until I began taking the harmalas and DMT together. I dissolve both in a shot of warm orange juice and it works way better (for me) than taking harmalas first.

The doses were freebase Gel caps taken at the same time.

I have previously done a lesser dose at intervals and had a nice experience.

This time I even pre dosed 100mg Harmala . Maybe and this is a long shot. The DMT was in a smaller Gel Cap being a small amount 40mg and the Vine Harmalas was in a larger Gel Cap, so the DMT cap dissolved before the Harmalas .

That's a stupid idea but nothing makes sense really.

Maybe the problem is to do with my digestive system? I do take Lansoprazole for a small hiatus hernia although that's never stopped pharma from working before.

Edit: I think I just figured it out.

My normal dose of Vine Alks is 250mg.

This time around I thought that because I pre dosed with 100mg Vine, one hour before the proper doses. I would just do 200mg vine with the 40mg DMT. Where as I should of took the normal 250 mg regardless of my pre dose.

I smoke vine every evening so I must have a slight tolerance.
250/300mg is a must for the main dose .

When experimenting to find a sweet spot for dosage, I strongly advise you to dissolve the harmalas and the dmt into a single premade solution. For the predosing of harmalas, a solution would also be more dependable.

For converting the harmala freebases to a soluble salt, I wrote a formula in a recent post:


Since freebase dmt and freebase harmalas molecules are very similar in molecular weight, you can substitute the harmala weights with dmt weights and reuse the formula without too many problems.

Thanks.
I will think about it.

Although I'm likely to stick with the caps. I know your talking about just finding the sweet spot but I think if I was gonna have a drink it would be Ayahuasca.

I'm confident I can get it rite next time . Famous last words.

Is clearly stated in the "predose" thread

I dunno what's wrong with me lately.
The other day went to pay for some goods at a food store and I accidently threw my Starbucks all over the counter..
Maybe old age is catching up