DMT has a reverse-tolerance snowballing effect, as you can see here.

If it was heavy aya/pharma till the day you depart

Would you eventually stay in hyperspace?

Would you go insane?

Would you master the the two worlds?

I think what would happen depends on the individual.

I don't consider myself a master of this world never mind the other...I don't think madness would ensue, because hopefully a level of common sense would indicate that you are on the wrong path, you may even be told such. Ayahuacarios spend a lot of time in that realm, and I have heard anecdotal stories of them living long healthy lives.

There is a line Terence McKenna liked to use for questions similar in nature.

"There are "old" Shaman's and there are "bold" Shaman's, but there are no "old bold" Shaman's..

Without context how can we even answer? How it would effect people differs and depends on so many factors

Ehhh, not so sure about that. I think you're confusing shamans with mycovenatorial enthusiasts.

Neither are you the first nor are you the last to ask such a question. It must be true of almost all questions that we are not the first nor will we be the last to ask such. The questions come naturally.

The next question that comes to mind is, "has anyone tried this before?"

Leary, Alpert and crew at Milbrook tried a long experiment with LSD where they were on it for weeks. They were drinking out of the bottle by the end of the experiment. You can google it. The upshot was, eventually they came down. It took a while even for some rather hardy psychologists to "come down".
But "come down" they did. Into strong habits and apparently consensual and apparently consistent and "objective" reality.

How interesting that consistency and constancy is. What a wonder it is that we even have something that we think of as everyday reality.

Were they different after the experience? Surely. And yet they were somehow the same. Little Tim and little Richard.

I remember Richard talking about Tim as he was about to die and Tim telling him how he "just wanted to be a good boy" or something like that. My memory fails on the exact quote. But, the little boy Tim was right there at the end, as if he were looking at his mother, and wanting to be good and pleasing for her.

No amount of psychedelics or big dramas or the ravages of time and even cancer removed that little Tim from himself. Until. Until he was gone.

Was their experiment definitive or conclusive? Their conclusion was that the effects of LSD were transient and that eventually they would come down into a habitual baseline, whatever that was.

Playing with the habitual baseline or stalking one's own habitual baseline seems to be a much slower and longer game that requires sensitivity and patience. DMT or LSD seem to only be parts of that as they are acute and not chronic.

Camellia Sinensis is more on the chronic timeline and it is no wonder that it was revered by the Zen tradition. What if you spent every morning for the rest of your life sipping tea slowly and gently, noting the subtle flavors and notes, breathing gently? What then?

Nice and informative thread but it is about smaller doses than I am referring to. I am on the page of sticking a drip in your arm all day everyday and seeing what would happen once you come down after a couple years.

I remember TM talking about how a break through is like waking up in a multi-dimensional maternity ward as a new lifeform and what we see is equivelant to a one of those dangling, rotating mobiles for babies. Once you die though, the baby (your supposedly dead soul) spends more time learning and figures out what it this hyperdimensional dangling, rotating mobile is but on earth we are unable to do this because we have to come back to reality. So perhaps the drip feed may offer a more clarifying opportunity to understand what is going on in hyperspace.




Your point here is that it is context dependant, I agree it is true but nevertheless the most dominating factor your speak of is that of neurophysiology as we all share the same biological mechanism called CNS and this field of study can predict to some certainty that inducing some substances over extended periods will induce psychosis that is not context dependant but biologically dependant.

This leads me to wonder though if dmt, being a natural substance found in the brain will have that effect or could we at least pause for a moment and imagine with our imaginations what may be the most likely thing to ensue?



Nice post, I wonder if shocking the brain with drugs like LSD is more likely to cause an alarm and send the waking state of mind back in to default mode, whereas slowly altering over time in calmness like with chamomile, tea or zen may make a more structured and lasting effect. fo sho though, thumbprint doses can destroy lives by hppd.

im not sure why anyone would want to do this, seems ridiculous, i guess forest said it best



i think theres stories of pickard/skinner/apperson/cole doing this type of IV use in their underground acid silo but im not sure how long they did it for, presumably not years.

Yes, yes we know it is a dangerous idea but what about what you think would happen?

how longs a piece of string?

some people would be fine, some people will get twitchy, some people will find god, some people will become deluded, some people will upsticks and live in a cave, some people will go nuts ect, ect, ect.

its a question without a single answer

theres probably an endless amount of possible outcomes to this kind of behaviour. have you looked into what happened to pickard/skinner/apperson/cole Or the Millbrook folk, they have a lot of serious use between them.

Tell me my why you think there will be diversity in the outcomes? Why are you so convinced that that is the case? It would be safe to say at lower dose peoples internal psyche is still enveloped within the experience and that gives variation among the effects but I assume once at a certain dose for a certain amount of time, all brains would exhibit the same behaviour as personality prototypes are not being engaged. I am saying personality prototypes are the reason for the dissimilarity amongsts people and once alleviated the brain functions as a standardly default biological machine. What am I overlooking with this do you think?

All I found was this shroomery article on Skinner, Pickard, Cole, etc

im not convinced of anything, i just think that people frequently react differently to the same stimulus and this would be the same.

i dont think all brains work the same way, so even if you remove the individual personality you are not left with the same biological machine, but im not a neurologist so i cant say that with certainty

I also think the subconsciousness is something massively different to what most people think it is, so removing your personality type doesnt really leave a blank slate.

give it a whirl and let us know how it goes...

Why would you think there will be NO diversity in the outcome?

Im not convinced of anything either but I lean towards no diversity for the same reason that DMT seems to make everyone go to hyperspace. The repitition is dependant on purely biological functions and not personality prototypes, the latter come in to play with the qualitative experiences while in hyperspace but hyperspace still occurs not half the time, not some of the time but all of the time. The brain is a functional entity that operates via biological mechanisms. The way brains function are pretty much identical across the board which is why we have neurologists to help people, if it wern't this way then dr's could not make diagnoses because of too much variation with peoples neurophysiological processes.

For analogy, an iphone6 is still and iphone6 all over the world and still behaves like that no matter whos programming what on there. I don't see why software programming (personality traits/memories etc) would interfer with biological mechanisms of any given substance.

For instance people who are predisposed to scizophrenia are thought to have genetic abnormalities that program how there brain operates and then therefor how they behave. But to have this occur reversed? meanin by the personality effecting how the brain operates neurochemically? doesn't seem to make sense. Sure, it can effect subtle processes like mood but you don't see people flying to hyperspace just because there personality told them they felt like it.

People frequently react differently to the same stimulus because they run there experience through their memories & emotions and react with their charachter traits/personality. If you look at how babies or chicklettes just respond to data that they have learned from their genes it is similar to what it would be like to experience senses without personality.

Where I am completely misunderstanding this concept is whether having such a high dose experience constantly would irradicate memories/personality etc. or would it still be intergrated and cause the diversity in the outcome you speak of?

I also totally agree with you 3rdI that you think the subconsciousness is something massively different to what most people think it is. I would like you to tell me more.

Hyperspace is different for everyone. We call it hyperspace so we can generalize and agree upon one idea of where we go when we trip on DMT. Everything and everyone is different, hence, our experiences will also be different. Just because you and I hang out in "hyperspace" does not mean that we will see the same things or achieve the same goals. That is what diversity is to me. You and I are different simply because you are a different human than me. Therefore it stands to reason that your subjective experience will be vastly different than mine.

Comparing the DMT experience and people to software is laughable. That is like saying, "Well, I'm human and you are human. therefore everything about you and I is the same." That is ludicrous. If we were the same, I'd be agreeing with you right now.

It also important to note that even within ego death, there is still something there that is aware. My awareness is different than yours, even in those states of being. With your personality stripped, you are still you, no matter how deep the experience. It is just you without your personality/ego getting in the way.

No offense, but thinking that there would be no diverse reactions in this kind of experiment is a bit closed minded.

No way anyone can dose like that every day. No one has such big balls

well this idea comes with a caveat that it is a result of my drug use and the fact that i am not especially clever or qualified in any field, so it may be, and likely is, nonsense, however,

i am currently entertaining the idea that what we are is a type of membrane between the subconscious and conscious/consensus reality.

I think that Hyperspace is the manifestation of the subconscious and this may be the same singular subconscious that is accessable by everyone.

The idea that there is you and that the world expands from you outward into infinity is correct, but it also goes the other way on a similar infinite scale, and that the things inside the subconscious are actual places in a similar way to the way the park down the road is a real place.

We are the play, outer reality is the audiance and inner reality is the actors that are participating in the performance.

Places like heaven and hell are real places however they reside inside the mind, as do gods and mystical beings and creatures. I think legend and religeon are just stories of peoples encounters with the things that live inside the subconscious.

i find it quite difficult to explain exactly what i mean as i think its something that is beyond my intelligence level to properly comprehend and put forward, i always feel like im grasping at straws, like a worm trying to fathom a jigsaw.

I think that with technological advancements in the future we will be able to explore the subconscious with much more reliabilty and ease than the current methods that people have developed/use and we will be able to map and record its contents in a more simple and coherant manor.

What we will be able to do with this infomation/ability i have no idea.

hope that makes some kind of sense.

1) Because we all have 2 legs and 2 arms makes you imposing that there is no difference further to speak of in the biological functions. Dna and genes differ, the rest differs along. A certain dose really differs from one to another, that we know, you seem to counter speak facts by just saying so.

2) Why would difference in personality prototypes have no effect in the outcome? The psychological footprint goes into the experience, no doubt. Same person, same dose, other state of mind --> different experience. Go figure.
It makes me wonder how much experience you have with substances to not know this

* * *

It is not because you do not see that that it makes it so. A depressive state of mind does affect sickness vulnerability, your mental lifestyle could even induce a heart attack. A psychological shock can turn ones hairs white or falling out. But a substance experience won't be affected?

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And the drs have a great piece of work with the variables, making their diagnosis very slippery, often ending in a try and error style approach. A neurologist told me so.

To heal a broken bone, yes, things are largely straightforward, and even there the variables make up for serious batch of unforeseen complications.

* * *

I've a weird feeling with the claims you make