"I guess this depends on your level of respect and experience with this grass."

How so?

It has to do with alkaloid content to me. Ive been extracting and ingesting grass extracts for 8 years. That is at least some experience. I am not saying it is not possible. I am saying ive never seen grass that you can simply smoke a flower head raw from and get any kind of entheogenic effect aside from placebo or something equally ambiguous, and for this thread, I want the focus to be on something more concrete so we can build a foundation of solid grass data and experimentation. We have the info to support claims of alkaloid levels in the blades..flowers...not so much. The old data does not support these claims. So these claims are conflicting with old data, and that is an issue that needs to be addressed, via chromatography analysis.

I have "tripped" while out in the bushes simply picking grass and listening to frogs without ingesting anything..but that doesnt mean it was due to alkaloids passing my BBB from the grass.

I want to see analysis of these flower heads that can be simply smoked in a bong to give changa like effects etc...because it that is true then that is amazing. It's possible some species or strains could have very high flower content.

If you have samples I am sure chromatography analysis can be arranged.

Alright. A couple of times it has worked with P. Arundinacea fresh flower and one other person was there to validate it.
I don't recall if I attributed the effects to dmt, maybe the b-carbs and other tryptamines.

They were picked and smoked at sunset. Mild ripples in vision and increased body sensation. Very slight. I am still surprised by this. This was a few months ago so flowers are seed heads now. I dont think any ergot was on the flower.
I can provide flowers/seed heads of P. Aquatica , P. Stenoptera, P. Brachystachys,P. Canariensis, and P. Arundinacea.

I guess what I mean about plant respect is that you can "tap in" to the "lesson" easier with your experience or perception of a plant.
I'm glad you are still working with Phalaris after many years.

Did a calculation of grass weight per handful.
I get roughly 110 leaves avg handful which I have weighed at 15g. Two handfuls being 30g.
I agree that alkaloid data allows you to understand what's going on with these plants but at the same time limits our conception on what phenomena is really taking place.
My method of research doesnt always include chemical analysis and have yet to do TLC so i will do my best to facilitate a way where my extracts and plant material may be assayed by someone with proper equipment.
To normalize the condition.
To normalize duality. All while misinterpreting the code.

a little update. I have been using the grass extracts with peganum harmala recently, smoked with oral harmala tea, and then more recently I have been drinking a brew with harmala seeds, and a number of DMT admixture plants including mimosa and chaliponga with added wild phalaris arundinacea extract..and that has been about all I have been working with lately. My interest right now is in oral grass extracts for use in brews. Im not comfortable saying more right now until more work is done. I have not used the extract in a large oral dose yet alone with rue. I am satisfied with its synergy in a brew, however.

Please be careful. It looks like a lot of people are going out trying to find wild grasses now and I have seen many mis-identifications. If unsure always post pictures and ask for help.

I got around to extracting a small ammount of phalaris aquatica var. australia. extract is impure still with some plant salts in there and fats I assume but it is active and smells of indole. I don't think it could have been more than 10-15g dry I extracted..I never dried it or weighed it.

22mg slowy vaporized after yoga over maybe 2 minutes resulted in a very deep and thorough spiritual euphoria..typical tryptamine feeling but peaked after about 2 minutes, maybe due to the lower dose smoked slowly. It is more of a pure DMT'ish feel to it than I am used to with arundinacea extracts. This strain is listed in trouts notes as having roughly 2/1 ratio DMT/5meoDMT..I dont think I vaped more than like 4-5mg in that 22mg..it was too little ammount to really clean up without the loss making it pointless. I would imagine I smoked maybe 1-2mg of 5meoDMT with a couple mg's DMT and other trace tryptamines present.

Visuals were so mild that they were hardly there, but DMT like in the dark(I smoked in a dark room with a candle). Not much to speak about really with visuals at this dose..it was like what a thresh hold dose of visuals are like with DMT, where you think you see them but not really sure..once one is used to DMT however you know that they are there. The feeling of just deep spiritual euphoric waves of energy running though the body was the most pronounced aspect, and personally that's more important for me than visuals. I can imagine with say 15-20mg of this stuff better purified would be pretty heavy though.

Peak lasts about 10 maybe even 15 minutes, which is another sign of 5-MeO-DMT present.

There was a huge wave of highly charged empathic energy that felt like it would dwarf mescaline, that made my body rock back and forth and want to sing and laugh fully uninhibited..intense yawning. I looked over at a buddha I have on an alter and there was this moment where I understood eastern mysticism at it's roots.

I cleaned my pipe before to do my bets to rule out DMT residues coloring the effects.

That's all for now. Yugo red and Big Medicine on the way...and I have what looks like a nice pile of stuff from my combined summer harvests of wild grass.

Awesome.

That's amazing, Jamie! It's so satisfying to see the progress you've made with Phalaris. If everything else fails in the world of bark (as in availability)... there's all ways grass

next fun project is indoor aquatica in tubs from seed under lights..for those apartment dwellers. This should be one goal with grasses really because I have a feeling most of you don't have yards.

Awesome work man! Thank you for laying the groundwork for the exploration of these grasses. Your original post on here is still one of the most interesting threads I've read here.

so I extracted a mix of homegrown arundinacea strains Big Medicine and Yugo Red..and it's looking good..need to clean it up but it smells identical to mimosa DMT..unlike wild arund extracts which have a strong indole scent but not exactly like that of DMT..it's sort of between DMT and bufotenine...this extract here smells identical to mimosa spice when vaped off a pin head.

Im gone for the week tommorow, so bioassay will have to wait..but Im positive it's clean DMT based on my observations, and the TLC work of others.

well, I finally got a hold of 50mg of pure synthetic 5-MeO-DMT. A small dose was vaporized last night and I am very impressed with the potency of this stuff. This stuff is no joke. At just 2.2 mg there was insant tryptamine rushing..forceful and pleasurable...no visuals at all at that level...just an ecstatic rushing of high amplitude tryptamine energy. I flopped over on the bed and started making this rythmic tonal ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sound just like I do with DMT. It was very similar to DMT in feel..except for a couple things..first the power of it at such a low ammount, and then the timeline it follows. It comes on very quick, except it comes up and up and up and up so that 5 minutes later I still feel like I might be comming up into a peak..it's almost as if there is no peak there is just this up up up of rushing energy and I feel myself dissolving into blissful movements and sounds and then like 10-15 mins later its subsiding slowly...just like the grass extracts. I am now certain that I have been smoking 1-2mg of 5-MeO-DMT in my wild grass extracts as well as in aquatica..upping the doses of the grass extracts should bring out more of the 5-MeO-DMT effect.

I could tell pretty much right away that this was very familiar to me from my work with phalaris extracts. 5-MeO-DMT hits fast but comes up for longer than DMT, lasts longer overall than DMT..feels energetically very similar but is forceful at even 2mg and has no visuals at this dose..just like wild arundinacea. I should state that I don't usually get things like entities lately when I smoke DMT either...DMT takes me into a fractal experience of energy that encompasses everything when I vape it most often. This was like that..def fractal but I did not see the fractals.

The 5-MeO-DMT smells like just like DMT, only it has a more sweet indole smell than I am used to with mimosa..the same sweetness to the indole scent that I have been associating with grass extracts.

Also, I tested the big medicine and yugo red combined extract...it was tryptamine active and felt and tasted like DMT to me..but I did not have enough to get past threshhold effects. I don't think I even extracted 20g dry tbh...maybe I smoked like 5mg DMT.

http://www.erowid.org/li...aris_reports_arund.shtml

That chart shows some arundinacea is really over 1% total alkaloids dry weight. I don't know how I missed that before, but that's much higher than I expected any arundinacea to get.

Here is a chart for Aquatica...interestingly the Australian Commercial does not look as good as I figured except for in one case...

http://www.erowid.org/li...laris_reports_aqua.shtml

I will have some more to report soon on rough yields from some dry arundinacea I have extracting.

http://www.erowid.org/li...t2_phalaris_drying.shtml

There is a chart on freezer vs drying. I thought it was just drying that had the main effect on the grass but it seems even freezing is no good. It may be best to brew your grass and make resin after each harvest..and save up the resin till you have enough for a full extraction.

Glad to hear of your experience with the pure compound.
You have helped me a little bit in figuring out the perplexities of Phalaris effects.
What would you say the minimum dosage of 5-MeO-DMT has been to induce visual phenomenon?
I observe through some Phalaris experiences that some produce no visuals yet the body rush/expectation feel while a few room-temp acetone extracts produced more colorful, reds and blues, forests and snake landscapes. Still smelling like indoles from a creek, though.

I noticed in 2013 Phalaris Arundinacea and P. Paradoxa extracts during August, collected along rivers and ponds were more in my face and gone within a few moments and extracts later in the year(november) from fields near a forest and river were exceptionally close to the experience reports you have written(i.e. duration, onset of effects).
The instantaneous lift-off feel- but you're still there and propulsion is still building.
I have peaked at the 15-20min point, making me really question what was in it.
Everything collected along beaches(P. Arundinacea) has been stoning probably from beta carbolines, or non-effective. Maybe the beaches have been bunk due to low nitrogen levels?

Jamie, have you read Snu Voogelbreinder's Garden of Eden? I do not recall his reference but mentions P. Arundinacea as having up to 2.75% alkaloids, assuming that it's not all tryptamines, I don't see how this could not be possible with Brachystachys culminating 1-3% and Aquatica strains reaching 1%+. I also have held off on posting certain research on here because it would not line up at all with literature's hopeless claims. Essentially you are able to obtain usable amounts from Phalaris species(Arundinacea, Aquatica, Brachystachys, tentatively Paradoxa) during the right seasons and really early in the morning.

Also, did you end up trying the wild P. Arundinacea extract which endlessness tested which peaked in 5-MeO-NMT?
Very curious as to a bioassayed comparison of 5-MeO-DMT to 5-MeO-NMT.

A little update on my end, Phalaris Platensis is giving promising results but nowhere near the definitive effects of the Phalaris Paradoxa crude resin extract. Pretty mild.

Do we have someone the nexus where plant substances may be sent for analyzing?
I have contacted the people in Spain(who are linked in the Plant Analysis and Substance Testing threads), and payment must be in bitcoin, which I am a complete monkey at understanding.

"Also, did you end up trying the wild P. Arundinacea extract which endlessness tested which peaked in 5-MeO-NMT?
Very curious as to a bioassayed comparison of 5-MeO-DMT to 5-MeO-NMT"

Effects were like 5-MeO-DMT...which has been a consistent theme to the experiences..wild arundinacea feels to me to be largely a 5-MeO-DMT experience.

Neat. Do you notice anything less or more displayed with the separate experiences?
For instance, NMT from Acacia Confusa for me came on slower, lasted a bit longer and was non-visual, only giving an under-the-water eye effect. Whereas DMT is a lot fast oncoming and usually visually dominating.

Its not entirely certain that was 5-MeO-NMT in the extract...and I am skeptical of the lack of 5-MeO-DMT.

We need more analysis to really be able to say much. All I can say is that my experience with wild arundinacea extracts are that they produce effects that are rather consistent with 5-MeO-DMT IME despite some seasonal variation etc.

okay so my summer harvests have been combined(wild grass) and extracted...about a half kilo was all I could extract at once so I still have a lot left to extract later and first couple pulls yielded 30mg of a tan white powder that is definately an active tryptamine. I vaped 5mg and it feels very similar to about 1-2mf of 5-MeO-DMT..very pleasant and euphoric and music sounds incredible. All the typical tryptamine effects of a mild 5meoDMT dose are present.

I pulled with naphtha this time..which produced the tan powder and not the blood red goo of other solvents..and this extract feels clear, similar to the aquatica.

More pulls should yield more..

I will post a pic of it tomorrow.

Thx for the heads up jamie, well done, looking towards your pics and next post

BTW, have you tried to combine s amall amount of the (5-meo NMT?) extract with harmalas?
Or would that be reckless?

promised a pic..here it is..not the best quality sorry..

expect more work both with wild strains and cultivars in the near future. I took time off from working with grasses this summer, aside from the odd walk into the bush to harvest..have been busy with festival season, work, exploring some other tryptamines and more novel synthetic things..but as I am settling back down into autumn and collecting up this seasons harvests etc this will again become a focus.

edit..also something interesting to ponder regarding one of the beta-carbolines that has been showing up in analysis..

"The Phalaris alkaloid 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline was reported as a rearrangement product of 5-methoxytryptamine-N-oxide by Ghosal & Mukherjee 1966 [J. Org. Chem 2284] but Shannon & Leyshon 1971 pointed out that their UV spectrum does not support that assertion."

https://www.erowid.org/l...sec1_6-meoharmalan.shtml