Okay so this is my first post on here in a while.. I forgot my old account details and can't figure out how to recover it without knowing the username.

Anyway, DMT was my first venture into psychedelics about 3 years ago when I was 16, and it pretty much altered the course of my life. I didn't know how to comprehend what had happened to me and it lead to me becoming very disconnected from reality and being psychotic in my waking life for about a year. Ultimately it lead to some deep insights into the nature of reality and a whole new perspective of looking at things. I saw eventually that my mind was coming up with all of these different paranoid scenarios and I was creating my own suffering. Luckily I never got diagnosed with any mental health issues because I knew how 'out there' my thoughts were and when my parents made me see a counsellor I just said that I was depressed. I never really opened up to exactly what was happening to my parents at the time either because I knew they wouldn't understand. I didn't even understand either so it was hard.

Anyway, this was all a couple of years ago and things have changed a lot for the better. I've had dmt a few more times and experimented with other psychedelics and I feel like I have a much healthier attitude towards them now and life in general. I've decided that I don't want to have DMT again until I go to Peru to drink aya, and that's what I'm saving up to do now. The thing is, my grandfather left me some money when he passed away and left it in control of my mother, who is very conservative and against drugs. She knows I smoke weed and is okay with that but when it comes to psychedelics she's very misinformed. I managed to get her to watch this documentary a while back called Stepping into the Fire which was about this wall street guy who quit his job and opened an aya center.

Looking back I wish I'd shown her a different one because now she thinks it's just some crazy egotistical thing that rich people do or people who are retiring. When it comes to drugs she always reads about things that already support her own viewpoint about them being bad. It can be so frustrating at times to be the only one in my family to have glimpsed the beauty that lies beyond and not be able to convey it.

They also know that Ayahuasca contains DMT and whenever that gets mentioned they refer to what happened a couple of years ago. Even though I never opened up fully to them they know that it was related to DMT. I've tried to say that it's not a problem with DMT, but a latent aspect of my own personality that was triggered by it, but they just don't get it. It seems like such a contradiction having all this negativity surrounding something that has so many positive benefits

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys know any articles or shorter videos I can show her that might make her change her mind? She's basically said that if I want to do it then I'll do it but she doesn't approve, she thinks I'll come back 'like a zombie' (Her words). As for the money that my grandad left me, she was apparantly okay spending that on anything except for going to peru. After hearing that, earlier this year some of the money was put towards a flat but as far as I'm aware there still is some. I don't know exactly how much it even is. Obviously I don't feel entitled to that in any way, it's just happenstance and I would much rather have my grandpa back than the money. But I still have to work a job in a retail shop and that's how I will save up to go to peru.

Even if I still have to save up myself to do this, then I will. It's not just financial support I want but emotional. It's like they think I'm some kind of junkie. It would be nice to be able to show my parents that ayahuasca is a powerful healer that can have genuine benefits not just for me, but for humanity as a whole..

So yeah, if you know anything I could show them then I would appreciate it

You are still fairly young, and entering the world as an adult. My advice to you would be to ground yourself a bit in the world, with work, your own life etc...maybe it's not the time to focus on what your family thinks about you. This is a time to define what you think, for yourself. Can you walk away from the convictions of your family, with your happiness intact? If you can, then you are a step closer to owning your own life. Life can teach you all sorts of things, in all sorts of ways..some more brutal than others. One thing I think many of us learn, is that it can often be better to just meet people half way, with the heart rather than wit.

That would be a good place, I would think, to begin approaching psychedelics from. It would have been nice to have had that framework when I was your age.

The raving madness of the mystic, is a wick that burns out the candle rather quick without the mindful breath of coherence to stoke that flame. It's a fine line to walk a path with psychedelics without getting too lost along the way.

Hi!

It can be tough trying to convince someone that psychedelics are powerful medicines, especially parents. They just want what is best for you and want to live with the notion that no matter where you are or what you are doing, you'll be safe. Sounds like typical, loving parents!

Anyway, keep in mind that your parents cannot control every aspect of your life forever. If you were 16 whenever that incident you mentioned went down and it is a few years later, that would make you a full grown adult, fully capable of making your own decisions (correct me if I am wrong on the age thing) . Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying to just up and leave and say, "screw you guys, you're not on my level and you'll never understand!" but what I am saying is that trying to convince them may be a fruitless endeavor. Parents tend to have their minds made up and convincing them otherwise would be a stressful and time consuming project. But if you are dead set on making them see the truth, then nobody is going to stop you from trying!

If you want to go to Peru and drink Aya, I say go for it! It will be an amazing experience! But remember, you don't actually have to be in Peru to drink Aya, by the way. It can be brewed pretty easily. As for articles or documentaries on DMT (and other psychedelics) I saw a couple of good ones on Netflix:

1. Neurons To Nirvana : Understanding Psychedelic Medicines

2. DMT: The Spirit Molecule

There is also a banned TED talk on DMT:

BANNED TED Talk - DMT The War on Consciousness

Also, there are a lot of good threads right here on the Nexus of people compiling research papers and articles in relation to DMT in general:

Open access Ayahuasca research papers

Endogenous DMT: Facts and Fiction

Fresh research paper on DMT

Access to full text or reprints

Well now, that should be plenty to get you started! I hope this helps and you are able to find what you are looking for!

Have a nice day!

-The Grateful One-

Good advice so far, and I guess I'll put my two cents in. I started using marijuana at 14 and LSD at 15. Looking back I wish I wasn't in such a hurry, but it was what it was. Of course your parents are concerned, especially if you've had what you describe as a negative experience in the past. That's them being the best parents they know how. When I was younger I remember wondering why mine wouldn't just leave me alone and stop worrying.

Some things you can be pretty sure of though:

Most people are afraid of psychedelics and cannot or will not be convinced of their value.

Your parents want what's best for you.

Family problems are far easier to start and perpetuate than they are to resolve.

Spending your own money helps eliminate complications about how the money was spent.

South America can be a great experience.

I think that if you work a shitty (or cool if you're lucky) retail job to fund your trip to Peru you will find it immensely gratifying. Take advantage of the fact that you still have tons of support from your parents. Full time at minimum wage will pay for a helluva trip in two months if you don't have any bills to pay and what you get for your money will last a lifetime. Most of your life you will spend your money on meaningless bullshit just to be up to speed with modernity. Take this opportunity to work and experience the payoff of a lifetime.

Hi Tryptonic, I will not take the side of your parents in support of their perspective, but please allow me to offer some additional argumentation regarding:
Please do not take it for granted that aya is always good for everyone and everything. For example I've seen people doing aya for tons and years and seeing the result I question the Big Medicine for automatic improvement properties. Then there are people doing it once and gain leap wise. What makes the difference is hard to tell, but enough to see that aya is a tool which result still depends. We have reputed shaman falling into quite strange conducts. There are brujos making people sick for money with aya as their ally.

I confess to be disappointed in an earlier belief I had about aya as The Miracle Medicine.
Now I see it more as stated, as a "tool" and without an own agenda of bettering the world, or it's users. Just a tool, yet a powerful one. The direction in which it is aimed gets magnified regardless of the ethics, IMO aya has no ethics to offer, it accept everything and will whirl whatever in a powerful way. In contradiction, sometimes it simply stalls and seems nothing to offer. It is unpredictable in many ways.

I have no intention to spoil your eager. If you truly feel called, not too much brainwashed by aya propaganda, then follow the intuition by all means at disposal without burning your ships. If you go, find a reputed guidance because as of late it literally stinks of imposter shamans in Peru and getting worse any minute, according to a very dependable source I know.

Meanwhile there are other very powerful allies out here, don't forget that too

Good luck whatever way you choose.

A journey starts with an idea, an idea blossoms with effort. Make the effort by showing your parents the person AYA is drawing out of you, take the time to earn it yourself, while keeping that person in the forefront of your mind for all to see. However long it takes. The idea will blossom in the minds of your parents eventually. After all, they love you and want what is best for you. Then your journey can continue, to Peru and beyond. It will make for a sweeter potion, and a fulfilling journey.

Ah well, i guess the decision is yours. You're an Adult, and you've gotta do what you wanna do. If you travel and visit a Shaman then that is your business, not their's. In fact it's kinda personal like you choosing your partner, or Religion. I guess their fears are more to do with you travelling alone to a foreign country and drinking without known friends around.

If you lived alone, you wouldn't have to convince anyone, but now that your parents know your plans, you have a dilemma. To convince them that you'll decide to visit a reccomended Shaman/ healing centre?, or to wait to do this when you are older?

If you feel the absolute need to convince your parents of the positive nature of your choice, then show them the great healing reports on a website like Reset.me. That's the site i'd use if it was me.

It's your life. You love your family, but in the end all you have is yourself. Don't want to sound like I'm teaching you, it's just what I learned...

I've been on the same track, and all I learned is that I need to love myself. Psychedelics didn't help me achieve it. Only helped me see it. I thought it will sort my problems, but only my conscious everyday effort made any real changes. Maybe it's the same for you. I hope you don't fall in the same trap I did, but it's just my experience. What YOU want is what matters.

So my advice is:
Do what you want to do and don't look back. It doesn't matter in the end.

"all the cool kids are doing it" is usually a good start

Before trying to convince them, I would make sure you accept that they might just not support you in this at first. Let go of the need for their support before you share information with them - be unattached to the outcome. Then just share some good info with them and make sure they understand that you will research things thoroughly and be as safe as possible.

A study I think is helpful to share is the study Brazil did on Santo Daime members which led to the country of Brazil making Ayahuasca 100% legal for anyone. Ayahuasca was illegal in Brazil until the SD church sued them for legal rights. So Brazil did a study on SD church members compared to a control group of regular Catholics and non religious people... SD members are known to drink Ayahuasca often and in Brazil pregnant women and children also drink, so this is a community that is heavily influenced by drinking the sacrament.

The study found that in every category of mental, physical and emotional health that the SD group tested equally or better then the control groups. The study showed very clearly that Ayahuasca in a safe setting improves individual and community health.

http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2012/08/new-ayahuasca-study/

I would also share with them why you want to drink and what you hope to achieve from drinking and I think you should also tell them ways you are going to stay safe (drinking with an experienced guide, getting lots of objective referrals for that guide to make sure they are legit, starting slow and easing your way into the practice ect).

After that the best way to show them Ayahuasca is okay for you is to let them see the progress you make with the medicine. If your life and personality shifts noticeably in a good direction, they will notice that. That is the biggest and most convincing way to show them Ayahuasca is okay for you.

Even though I am older when I told my family I was going to the Amazon to drink crazy potions in the remote jungle with indians they were a bit frightened... My family then found the horror story type articles online (poorly written and misleading ones which were the first thing you'd see on google at the time). After a couple years working with these medicines my family could see how beneficial they were to me, and next year my dad and my wifes father both want to come to Peru with us and drink with my San Pedro shaman. I never convinced them of anything - they just saw the benefit in my life and that inspired them to look into things as well.

BTW - most accurate documentary of traditional Ayahuasca healing is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zmjujIOP6s

offtopic:



...but fully engaged in the process.

I am (in) flow, the phenomenom of now, liquid.

tseuq

Just another add on
How to convince parents that taking Ayahuasca is a good thing?

Maybe some points are already touched, anyway:

They mainly can convince their selves, if any.
Obviously that will take natural time to happen, maybe a long one who knows, what you can do is helping them doing that.

The difference in you-convincing-them or they-convince-theirselves is your general strategy:
* For example if you add too much pressure, all with good intend, this might back fire. A factor affecting them is that you do not display obsessive behavior.
* Avoid feeding their fear as much as possible, one might do that unconsciously;
* avoid emotional outburst disturbances, about entheogens, and besides.
* acknowledge aya isn't the wonder miracle and Peru isn't paradise, so they notice that you have eye for their concerns and that you are not blinded overly by ambition. Show you are able to enough extend to take care of yourself in remote places and situations where they cannot be of assistance.

Promote that they become to trust you, about something that is out of their usual envelope. For that, your attitude toward entheogens, and also in a broader way to anything, will have huge impact on their self-convincing potential.

Big success would be that it works out that they become convinced.
In a lesser success they don't become really convinced (right away), but they do gain enough trust in you for something they are not ready for integrating.

If all of your effort fail and they stay heavily opposed concrete stiff in a mental concerning way then this
might become called for, but even this can be done in a serene way from your end.

Good luck

Good point Jees, but i would say,'forget convincing'! If i was in Tryptonic's shoes i would not limit my trip to Peru only to Aya. That seems silly to me; I would be sure to check out the wonders of World famous Cusco and it's environs. I'd want to visit Arrequipa, Lake Titicaca, etc... Trujillo, Huacachina, Lima,...etc...Peru is an amazing Country, enjoy it!

That way i would increase my skills and learn about the real life modern day Peru as well.



Yes, there are many ways, but it really isn't rocket science. If he take's his time to explain that this kind of Tourism is as mainstream -and normal, as any other Tourism in Peru, then i'm sure his Parents will feel easier about it.

Peru is very Touristic and popular these days. It's no longer some 'hidden gem', as it once was.

Don't try to convince them with words. Do it with action.

Earn the money, do it (right).
And maybe you have other options. You don't need to go in the jungle.
I've drunk Aya with Shipibos over ten times, all i did was take a bus out of the city. I am in the middle of Europe, those Shipibos where on a tour and basicly came to me. Nothing uncommon in todays age.
Maybe you are in luck and there is a mobile curandero hospital coming your way?

In the meantime, don't put your focus only on Ayahuasca/DMT, don't forget the shrooms and the cactus. All of these are tools and gateways, in the end the mode of transportation is not as important as the journey and the destination you arrive at.

Thanks for all your responses everyone! Sorry about my belated reply, but here goes


You're right, I think I possibly am hinging too much about their approval. I've recently got into college to study music but I haven't told them yet. Just a one year course. (Not university, but college. In the USA I think you guys call it community college) Already enrolled and dropped out of 2 courses but they were computing and social sciences, and both times my parents made me apply. Wanted it to be my own decision this time. I've realised music is my calling and I'm gonna draw a lot on my experiences with psychedelics. Those 'psychotic' episodes from a couple of years ago any the many ups and downs I've faced have ultimately given me my current perspective and I feel like those negative experiences were a blessing in disguise because they were the best teachers. Realised the power music has to help transmute and transform consciousness. Been influenced heavily by bands like wookiefoot, mc yogi, nahko & medicine for the people, xavier rudd etc and I think conscious music is the best music. Those people all have profound spiritual messages in their music and there's got no doubt that they've used psychedelics to aid their journeys. I know for a fact wookiefoot and nahko drink ayahuasca. Our species is going through a conscious revolution at the moment and we're living in exceptionally important times. There are still people trapped in old modalities and ways of thinking but it is changing. I've always felt a calling to contribute to that in some way and I think music will play a huge role in that transformation.


Yeah you are right there is no doubt that my parents have always had the best intentions for me, but the world they grew up is so vastly different from the one our generation is growing up in today. It's some kind of instinct to draw from your own experiences and use that to guide your kids in this world, and back in tribal days that alone would have been enough. But now, the world is changing at an ever accelerating pace and things that are relevant for one generation completely change by the next generation. So, we have to pretty much find our own way. Sure, psychedelics were around when my parents were my age but it was mainly LSD which was stigmatized as a hippie drug. Never actually had LSD but that's by choice. There was so much mass propaganda that they've had hurled at them their entire lives basically about the 'war on drugs'. It's like pavlovian conditioning. It's very difficult to reason with. The internet generation is a lot more liberal about these things because it's so much easier to find information about it that's not purely biased. I guess my point is that while they are trying to look out for me, they are not omnipotent and there are things in this world that they don't know. Ayahuasca is one of those things.


Very true.


Solid advice, thanks dude! You're probably right it'll feel a lot more gratifying if I've worked hard to achieve it but there is a little voice in me that wishes for their support. probably naiive though


Yeah I'm aware it's not a miracle cure for all ailments as some have claimed it to be. What you bring to it ie. your intention is probably just as important as what you take from it. As with pretty much anything I research, it's important to sift through the varying opinions and find a middle ground. In the same way the media demonizes cannabis, and then the counter-culture glorifies it as something that's all beneficial and has no potential for abuse just because it's natural. Neither of those assertions are really true. I've has a bad relationship with cannabis in the past, maybe 2 years ago when I would smoke it every day and then I stopped completely for 9 months or so. It's not a good or a bad thing, but all about balance.

As for ayahuasca, it has its equivalent nay-sayers and proponents. While I can't obviously speak from my own experience because I haven't tried it, the general consensus from speaking to people is that it opens up doors to guidance which you have to then act upon. It's not going to save you because you have to save yourself. It'll only show you how. I've met people who've taken ayahuasca and benefited immensely. And I've also met people who were assholes going into it and stayed assholes afterwards, although probably somewhat less so. So I understand that intention and commitment are key. My intention for it is to deal with emotional issues that've been bottled up since childhood, and also to find creative inspiration for music.

Actually now is probably a good time to mention, I think that this contention I've had with my parents started when I was 11 years old living in Singapore and I ran away from home, crossed the malaysian border and was reported missing to the authorities in singapore, mayalsia and also australia. That's what prompted us to move back to the UK and things slipped ever since then. There's been many ups and downs but I think somewhere nested in my psyche there's this need for approval from my parents because I've always felt like I've let them down. When I was 15 my father paid for some flying lessons and that's what I wanted to do at the time, I didn't finish studying for that and I feel guilty but after going through all these experiences I've changed so much as a person and realized it's not my calling. I have a feeling ayahuasca will delve into the root of that and it'll probably be a prominent theme. It's doubtful that any western therapist could deal with this in the same way that aya would.


Yes there's the possibility that they will never support me. I've already accepted that. But it's still less than ideal. I'm not even speaking about financially, but just emotionally. Just a simple recognition or acknowledgement is all, not being shunned. Every time it's brought up in conversation there is the knee-jerk negative emotional response, particularly from my mother who just wants to change the subject. There's no way to get through, because it's not something you can shove down someone's throat. You need to be open-minded about it and willing to listen.

Thank you for those links and your advice to share with them what I hope to achieve. I think I'm actually gonna show them this thread on here, and hopefully they'll read through it. As for the fake shamans and finding a legit one, I've already got that covered.

Basically a year ago I found this video about a music collective called Liberation Movement. I wanted to find out more about them so I reached out to them and it ultimately led to an interview with this guy called ressurector which I did over skype and recorded. My intention was/is to make a documentary but I'm putting it on the backburner until I can actually go to peru and experience ayahuasca. I've realized music is more of my calling than film-making though. Anyway it was one of the most profound and interesting conversations I've ever had, they work closely with Shipibo shamans which have inspired a lot of the music. Towards the end he invited me to go to the temple of the way of light, which he is very heavily involved in and that's one of the most reputable centre's in the country. The album of the maestra's icaros which you can get from their website was produced by him. There's also another place he told me about which is more traditional and less westernized than temple of the way of light. But my point is that I trust completely that those will be legitimate shamans.

Check out their video here


Thanks for your advice. I confess I am guilty of having emotional outbursts about entheogens and getting frustrated that they don't understand. It's not the way to show them. But you are very right. I can't convince them, they have to convince themselves. Possibly they will convince themselves if I come back from the experience and there's a noticeable positive difference in me. Whatever happens, I know I won't come back a 'zombie' lol. I recognise that peru isn't a paradise and over the course of the past few years of researching ayahuasca since I heard about it, my mentality has gone from glorifying it to having a healther attitude about it. It's not a miracle, but it absolutely has the potential to be transformative and positive. Positivity out of negativity. It's not going necessarily to be a fun experience. It hurts to go into your emotional wounds but it needs to be done if they're ever gonna be healed



I actually know people in my local country who do ceremonies and I've been invitied to partake but I declined because I'd rather take it in the poper shamanic context. I have a lot of respect for these people but they are westerners who lived in the amazon and then came back. I might be interested in doing that in the future but for my first experience I want to go to the source, and be accommodated by shamans who have been doing it their entire lives, not just a few years. It's a lot of trust to place in someone to guide you through a journey. Another thing is that it's illegal here, so if there was some kind of emergency I'm not sure what they'd do, because calling an ambulance might end up with them getting arrested. I think it's wrong that it's illegal, but the fact is that it is currently so it's not necessarily wise.

Phew. that's the end of my long-winded reply. Thank you all again for your replies!
peace & blessings

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