Does anyone know anything about Virola calophylla resin?

SWIM saw some today at one of his favorite vendors and is thinking of getting some. He's tried Virola theiodora resin from two different vendors and has bee VERY HAPPY with it. He’s not tried Virola calophylla before.

What’s the difference between Virola calophylla resin and Virola theiodora resin?

Is one more potent than the other?

Do the effects vary between the two?

A few sites mention that Virola calophylla contains mostly DMT while Virola theiodora contains mostly 5-MeO-DMT. In TiHKAL, they claim Virola calophylla alkaloid content to be 90% DMT. I find that hard to believe. Both are made into a snuff and DMT is pretty useless as a snuff ingredient, requiring massive doses, at least 20 times as much as 5-MeO-DMT when snorted. That doesn’t seem reasonable to me. But maybe natives are snorting 10 grams or more of the resin?

Does anyone have any personal experience with Virola calophylla?

Is it true that it contains mostly just DMT?

There's not a single trip report on Erowid of Virola calophylla resin.

I can't find any mention of anyone actually trying it and writing up a report on any other site either.

Can't anyone offer any addition info?

Has anyone on this forum ever tried it?

I saw the same at one of my fave vendors as well. Wasn't sure to get it or not either, as I've found no other info on it. I figured if YOU or SWIY hadn't reported on it, then I probly wasn't going to find much else. I'd have ordered it, but since I'm not a chemist I thought I might just end up blowing it due to improper preparation.

We are truly riding on the razors edge man. I'm sorry I can't offer more. If I end up getting some I'll report back for sure!

Peace
-idt

Hey 69ron - I found this link: http://books.google.com/...;ct=result&resnum=10

I couldn't copy/past the text, but the info starts at the bottom of pg. 345. It's not a "report" per se, but it does shed some light on chemistry and method of ingestion. Hope it helps a little...

EDIT: All the info can be found on of pg. 346..., not 345 as I stated. Most importantly it states that Virola calophylla was taken orally, as opposed to snuffing. Maybe this helps to answer your question about the unreasonable amount that would have to be insufflated for an active dose.

Peace
-idt

Please keep us updated if you end up buying anyways

SWIM ordered some. He's just too curious!!! It was cheap enough, so if it doesn’t work not much money will be lost.

He’ll write up a report once it arrives and he tries it.

Was the link I sent of any help, or was it all old news? Just curious as I found it somewhat informative.

Waiting in the wings for your report as well!

Some of the information was helpful. Still not enough information though. What dose should SWIM start with? What effects should he except? Those answers he can't find. SWIM will be a guinea pig I guess.

Ok, so SWIM now has some Virola calophylla resin.

He mixed 100 mg of resin with 100 mg of calcium carbonate (instead of lime). He took this sublingually. This should not be enough for any effects. He's starting low because he has NO idea how potent this stuff is. It's said to be mostly DMT. If so, it shouldn't do anything at this dose.

After 20 minutes its swallowed, something is felt, sort of a mild butterflies feeling in the stomach.

After 25 minutes, it doesn't feel like 5-MeO-DMT. SWIM feels a light DMT-style buzz from it. It's relaxing (low DMT doses make him feel like he's had melatonin). It's nice but barely noticeable.

After 30 minutes it seems to have peaked. The mild excited feeling is gone. SWIM now feels that DMT-style melatonin effect only. SWIM feels like he needs a cup of coffee (he always feels like that after having DMT).

This is a very low dose. There are no visuals, just a light DMT-style bodily effect felt. I think most people wouldn't feel it at this dose.

The taste of the resin is similar to Virola theiodora, but a little different, and the texture is much softer. The threshold effects felt seem somewhat like the threshold effects of DMT, but not completely. I can't imagine DMT even working at all at the dose used. I imagine this is maybe 5% alkaloids, but have never seen any data published on the resin. There is no way you could feel effects from 5 mg of DMT sublingually. It must be something else in the resin causing the mild effects. I wish I could see more data on this resin. I'm pretty sure there's something other than DMT that is active. It feels nothing like 5-MeO-DMT, and it's too strong to be DMT. With DMT you need at least 100 mg sublingually to feel something from it. This resin is not 100% DMT! At most maybe 10%, but more likely 1-5%.

So, with calcium carbonate is it now a freebase? I'm assuming so, and if this is correct maybe SWIY might try vaporizing a smaller dose. If SWIY is getting threshold effects at 100mg subligual, maybe he should try vaping 20mg or so and see how that goes, and work up from there. As long as he's already guinea pigging it for us...

Regardless, thanks for the report! Keep us posted my friend!

Peace
-idt

The calcium carbonate is used to raise the pH of the mouth to 9, which is better for absorbing alkaloids. This freebases a certain percentage of the alkaloids and helps them absorb faster. Calcium hydroxide would work better, but it causes a slight chemical burn, so SWIM doesn't like to use it.

SWIM doesn't want to smoke it at this point in time. Right now he's curious about sublingual usage. This resin is said to be active orally, and intra-nasally, so it should be active sublingually as well.


Today SWIM tried 200 mg sublingually with 100 mg of calcium carbonate. The resin was ground to dust and mixed with the calcium carbonate. Placed under the tongue for 20 minutes and then swallowed.

As expected, the effects were a little stronger, but still very light. Nothing psychedelic. Initially a slight excited feeling was felt for about 20 minute or so, and then that melatonin like effect SWIM gets from DMT was felt for a few hours afterwards.

Again, it feels nothing like 5-MeO-DMT, and does feel more like DMT, but not really strong enough to be 100% sure.

SWIM tried 300 mg of resin with 150 mg of calcium carbonate sublingually. At this dose mild psychedelic effects were apparent.

The effects remind SWIM of a very low dose of Psilocybe azurescens. The similarities at this dose are amazing.

It seemed to peak at about 25 minutes during which there were very mild visual effects. The overall effects lasted about 2 hours. The effects mostly consisted of bodily sensations identical to those of Psilocybe azurescens.

SWIM found the similarity to Psilocybe azurescens to be quite remarkable. This is odd.

SWIM has tried using DMT sublingually before with no luck, but this resin is definitely active, and very DMT-like, but more like Psilocybe azurescens than DMT.

What could account for it being so like Psilocybe azurescens?

Does this resin contain baeocystin?

I have not seen good chemical studies on this resin. Maybe it does contain baeocystin, or something similar to it. I can't imagine there being enough DMT present to cause any effects at all. The effects of this resin are nothing like the 5-MeO-DMT effects from Virola theiodora resin.

Hmm... Any chance it might contain Theobromine? I'm just entertaining a theory, but... Does SWIY know how to test for either theo or baeocystine? The only fungi experience that had remarkable similarities (although brief and fleeting) to DMT was when SWIM had p. azurescense in combination with raw cacao. I dunno, I'm just adding more to the equation here I guess.

Do we have the knowledge here to test for the presence of either of these? I certainly dont...

I would like to know what else besides DMT is present. I've read it contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-MMT, MMT, and a harmala alkaloid (but haven’t found much to back that up). Schultes and Prance found only DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and MMT (N-Methyltryptamine). According to them, the flowers, leaves, and shoots are by far the most potent parts of the plant; however resin was not even tested.

The following data is from Schultes:
Bark: 0.008% DMT, 0.0008% 5-MeO-DMT
Roots: 0.00087% DMT, 0.00013% 5-MeO-DMT
Flowers, shoots: 0.185% DMT, 0.008% MMT
Leaves: 0.1488 % DMT, 0.0062 MMT

The following data is from Prance:
Bark: 0.009% alkaloids (DMT and 5-MeO-DMT)
Roote: 0.001% alkaloids (DMT and 5-MeO-DMT)
Leaves: 0.115% alkaloids (DMT and MMT)

According to that data, no part of the plant contains enough DMT or 5-MeO-DMT to be effective sublingually or as snuff in reasonable amounts. It contains less than mimosa does. You can’t make a snuff out of mimosa. This plant is used to make hallucinogenic snuff, and is also used to make an orally active hallucinogen on its own without a source of MAOI added to it. Those numbers say nothing about the resin. Maybe concentrations in the resin are far greater? Or perhaps another alkaloid other than the ones found is responsible for the effects. I wouldn’t be too surprised. The effects SWIM experienced from it were not identical to the effects of DMT, and that data clearly shows DMT to be the only active alkaloid. It doesn’t seem right to me.


I think what really bothers me about those published alkaloid finds is that it does NOT explain how it can be orally active without any additives. Those results show DMT to be pretty much the only active alkaloid, and DMT is NOT orally active without a substantial amount of MAOI present. The few places that state that this resin contains a harmala alkaloid say it contains only traces, which is probably not enough to do anything.

I think something is missing here. There must be another alkaloid present. The effects were like Psilocybe azurescens, not DMT.

Can anyone out there do a test on this resin to see what it really contains?

According to that data, the flowers contain up to 0.185% DMT. In order for DMT to be active as snuff, you would need at least 100 mg of it in one shot. At a concentration of 0.185% DMT, that's 54 grams of leaves! That's impossible to snort. The resin must either contain another alkaloid or contain many times more than the leaves.

Last night before bed SWIM tried 500 mg of resin with 10 mg of calcium hydroxide. The two were ground to dust using a mortar and pestle. This was taken sublingually, held under the tongue for 10 minutes. Any saliva that developed was sucked and swallowed, while carefully ensuring that the powder stayed under the tongue the whole 10 minutes, and then it was all swallowed.

It seems like the calcium hydroxide was needed. There was a new sensation felt under the tongue, sort of bubbly and tingly as if the calcium hydroxide was freebasing something the calcium carbonate couldn’t freebase. After about 30 minutes SWIM felt a little cold and had definite visual effects for the first time with the resin.

At this dosage level, the effects are unique to the resin. It still resembles Psilocybe azurescens, but has a character of its own. It is similar to DMT. I think the effects are mainly that of DMT N-Oxide. SWIM has not used DMT N-Oxide sublingually, so he’s not sure about that.

The amount of calcium hydroxide used was about 2% of the mix. This wasn’t enough to cause any lacerations in the mouth, but seemed to be enough to freebase something in the resin. SWIM is going to experiment more with this resin. He’s going to try increasing the amount of calcium hydroxide used. He wants to use just enough to freebase all the alkaloids.


One thing I should mention is that 10 mg of calcium hydroxide is safe to ingest orally. People can ingest up to 1500 mg of calcium hydroxide orally. Some vitamin tablets have up to 1000 mg of calcium hydroxide in them. So 10 mg of calcium hydroxide is a very safe dose. Once it enters your stomach it’s converted to calcium chloride and water. But don’t take more than 1500 mg of it. You can get too much calcium. The recommended dose of calcium per day is 1000 mg for an average adult.

sublingually is a lot less I feel a little burn from about 20-30 mg sometimes when I get chew. How much more does lime make the resin effective if somebody took theiodora resin sublingually with lime could they halve their normal dosage?

The lime (calcium hydroxide) seems more effective with Virola calophylla than with Virola theiodora. Remember that Virola theiodora is mostly 5-MeO-DMT while Virola calophylla is mostly DMT (probably mostly DMT N-Oxide judging by the effects). 5-MeO-DMT absorbs very well sublingually as a salt and doesn’t need to be freebased. I know very little about using DMT sublingually. DMT has never worked for SWIM sublingually. But Virola calophylla definitely works sunlingually.

SWIM has tried both resins and the effects are completely different.

Virola theiodora gives the effects of pure 5-MeO-DMT. There’s no difference that SWIM can detect between Virola theiodora resin and pure 5-MeO-DMT. SWIM has used it sublingually and orally without MAOI and the effects are identical to 5-MeO-DMT. It's effective at 250 mg and up sublingually with 250 mg being a very light psychedelic dose. It’s effective orally at roughly twice the dose, but has more bodily side effects that way.

Virola calophylla gives effects similar to DMT, and totally unlike 5-MeO-DMT. I believe the effects of Virola calophylla are actually the effects of DMT N-Oxide and NOT DMT. It’s not completely like DMT, it’s a little different. Its much more relaxed and dreamy. SWIM has tried 500 mg orally, and 500 mg sublingually (with 10 mg calcium hydroxide) and found it effective by both routes without MAOI, but much more effective sublingually. At 500 mg orally, there’s a tryptamine body feeling, but that’s about it. At 500 mg sublingually (with 10 mg calcium hydroxide) minor visual effects are present. I’d say it’s about 2x-3x as potent sublingually. SWIM has NOT tried snuffing it. It probably works better snuffed. At 500 mg sublingually, the visual effects are very light, nothing approaching a true trip. It’s very relaxing. Quite nice actually.