I figured something out correct me if im wrong but Syrian Rue has a total beta-Carboline content of almost 4% by weight in the seeds. Plus the alkaloids occur in roughly the same proportions as in B. caapi. But its the content of harmaline and tetrahydroharmine that is slightly different that makes syrian rue feel different than B. caapi.

B. caapi's stems contain 0.11-0.83% beta-carbolines, with harmine and tetrahydroharmine as the major components. So my math is that 50 grams of caapi is a standard traditional dose which means that if your caapi contains 0.5% beta-carbolines then 8 grams of syrian rue is the same dose as 50 grams of caapi.

Why are we recommending 3 grams of syrian rue when that's the equivalent of 19 grams of B. caapi? Should we refine the teks to make the brews the equivalent of real ayahuasca or is there a reason behind it?

Not all beta-carbolines are the same - their effects differ, so you can't make a accurate straightforward comparison that way. I also dont know that there is a "traditional" dose of caapi, that can vary greatly from person to person.... Some people I know drink 200 grams for example, while others drink 50. Many dont measure it at all.

Only way to compare doses is to try them and see what amounts create the same level of effect.... The experience will always be a bit different because the plants are different, but you might be able to compare intensity.

3 grams of rue is more of a place to start, to test one's sensitivity; some need more, others less. I personally need more: tonight, for example, I'm doing 14 grams brewed into a tea, followed by about 60 grams acacia. I prefer pharma so I can be more exacting in the dosing, but this is the last of my supplies so I figured I'd go deep (though there's always the chance of a dud, even though i did a pretty traditional 9 hour boil/filter/reduce on both the rue and the acacia so I've got my fingers crossed for an intense soul-cleanse, in which I've been in bad need of). I brewed yesterday, and I'm going in about three hours for the rue tea, then and hour later the acacia. It's been several months since I've done any form of dmt and, yes, I am nervous like I'm sitting in the waiting room for a job interview I desperately need, or perhaps the dentist waiting room with the sound of drills into bones, splatters of blood, and the terrified screams of the patients.

Wow man thats a lot of acacia I had a good experience of 15 grams it was perfect. You should sipp that slowly man you may get more than you expected ill post my report on the difference in syrian rue

My high dose method report

I made a brew of roughly 20 grams of acacia confusa simmered for 45 minutes 3 times with a large amount of lemon juice and then concentrated all 3 simmers to around 100 ml. I stored the liquid and then waited till night I measured out 5.5 grams of whole syrian rue and then swallowed it all with some sips of lemonade to get it down. I then proceeded to take a shower and then 30 minutes later I downed 60 ml of the brew the rest I couldn't get down because it was highly nasty.

the trip...
Around 30 minutes after I downed the brew I was feeling it strong I put on some pajamas because they were comfortable then I sat down in a chair. I looked at my dresser and it seemed to morph into one giant block all of the sudden their was a tree and it was morphing with an insane amount of beauty then I started to feel nausea like I was going to puke I started fighting it then I heard a motherly voice saying don't fight it just go with it (I don't know the exact words in fact there may have not been words but that was the interpretation of what it meant).

I ended up fighting it I don't like vomiting so I braced my mind and fought the nausea off. I realized that was such a dumb thing to do and that she was disappointed I had not listened all of the sudden I was back here with no visuals. I got out of the chair and headed to my bed were the rest of the trip took place I was on here typing when I looked up and there was a leopard face on top of my ceiling fan I closed my eyes and then opened them and there were many leopard faces all around my room.

It scared me so I closed my eyes in fear and when I opened them my room was gone I was in a field surrounded by the jungle and the leopards were watching me. I was afraid and they knew it one came up and he looked me in the eyes at that moment I knew that the leopards meant me no harm so I nodded to him and said show me.

I followed the leopard out of the field and into the jungle where he jumped into a tree and then onto a giant rock. After closer examination it was not a rock at all it was a old statue with ancient egyptian symbols carved onto it it had a beautiful look to it and was green with moss. I heard a noise and I looked up there was a black bird with a beak that looked like the beak on the bird from fruit loops it flew off as soon as I saw it.

The leopard looked at me funny then started to run he looked back like I should follow so I did we got back to the field where I saw a helicopter thing approaching it landed next to my friend and a cowboy looking guy jumped out. I was back here at that point and I was staring at the ceiling fan (which may have been the helicopter?) and I saw a motherly face in the middle.

She disappeared and I started looking at the computer screen where I searched spotted leopard on google. I saw my friend there he was in a zoo I realized then that the helicopter man had taken him from the beautiful jungle and put him in a cage so we can look at him for amusement. I was disgusted sad and crying he seemed so happy and at peace and we took him. I rolled over in bed and felt deep sadness sweep through me I closed my eyes and when I opened them there she was.

This was the mother I had been seeing glimpses of she was in a dirt hut (im not sure were) and she said nothing she just hugged me. I realized then that she was mother nature she was in charge of life and that she was here to comfort me from my sadness of what we did to the leopard. She disappeared as soon as I felt better and I again rolled over and then I was the leopard I was running through the forest climbing through the trees and I was so powerful so muscular and had such strength.

I approached a camp ground and realized how weak the americans were they were so out of touch it would be easy to sneak up on them and eat them one by one they wouldn't notice or hear a thing. I left and then found a group of natives to the jungle armed with spears they were the top of the jungle and I knew it they would her me coming a mile away and they would instantly spear me in the blink of an eye they were not like the westerners and I respected them for it.

I woke up at this point it seemed like coming out of a dream I realized then that we are out of touch with nature we have reflexes like checking our phone not paying attention to our surroundings. It seemed odd we had gotten like this but then I realized how easy our lives our and that's not good were unhappy because we lost touch with the basics of nature we are animals surround with machines when we need to be surrounded by nature.

At this point I saw myslef as a child so innocent and happy I wondered what had changed me and I realized it was the western culture. I came out of if for the last time after that it was maybe 3 hours total which seemed short but it was ok. It was the most helpful healing i've ever had from any psychedelics it showed me the way so clear and meaningfully.



My non high dose of syrian rue report.

I brewed 15 grams the same way the only difference was the boiling were I let this one boil and my latest I let it simmer close to boiling. I ate 3 grams of syrian rue and waited 30 minutes and drank it all so I got the same dose as my latest dose but only DMT not rue.

The trip...
after around 45 minutes I began to feel it I sat in a chair and thought I would be seeing things soon. I did not I felt incredibly stoned but that was about it the only visions I had was that of tie die swirls when I closed my eyes. I ended up bored with the munchies and I ate a bunch of popcorn and watched willfred for the remainder of the night. I woke up the next morning feeling more connected to nature but that was not as deep as it is now.

Overall both were good and made me feel more mature and in touch with nature but the high dose was by far the best it blew me out of the water straight down the rabbit hole.

Sounds intense. I've tried 20 grams before and it was nice but I tend to take a lot in general, sightly higher tolerance, I suppose, but I am nervous about 60 grams for sure. I generally fight the purge for a few minutes then just let go into the purge bucket that is always by the bed on trip night. I have Christmas lights all over my room and tend to turn on my trip music playlist, lie down on the bed and wait. I generally don't do anything for the first half other than lie there with my eyes closed. I also tend to hold onto a crystal while it's kicking that is sort of my grounding stone.

Ya I have a crystal two i've been thinking of getting the shaman's stone. However when you do that much make sure to lie facing down im sure you know that but it would be tragic if you choked on vomit from formosahuasca. You should be fine there were moments of fear but as long as you have the right intentions im sure you will have a great time. I recommend showering I like to smell nice before I go. candles are great too incense is better because you don't risk knocking the candle over. I would try and state your intentions before you go I was honest and said I had none I just want to go deep and learn what she has to offer. Its not all about science its mystical as well. Oh and im not sure on this but the reason you may need more could be your diet if you eat a lot of junk food I here it can negatively affect your tolerance.

Yeah, forgot to mention I always meditate before I drink, and I smudge myself and my space to ward off bad mojo. This isn't my first rodeo, and I have a lot of tools at hand. I have never been in danger of choking on my own vomit, though once I did puke all over my blanket. That wasn't cool.

"Why are we recommending 3 grams of syrian rue when that's the equivalent of 19 grams of B. caapi?"

Those numbers are way, way off and the original post should be changed to clarify this. 8g of rue is far far more potent than 50g of most of the vine out there. Even 100g of most vine does not compare with 8g of rue(I know I have drunk 7-8g of rue once and had very large doses of vine)..trust me, these numbers are wrong.

I am actually a bit put off, that with all the responses here, I am the one to have to bring this up.

A traditional dose of ayahuasca might be 300g of vine for some, actually...not just 50..but I don't suggest anyone inexperienced do anywhere near harmalas at that dose. 10g of rue will compare with any very vine heavy jungle brew...and most of yall drinking ayahuasca at home are not drinking vine heavy jungle style teas.. and likely neither are most of you in ceremony with curranderos.

3g of rue is stronger than 50g of most vine, IME.

For me 3g of rue is closer to 100g of most vine or even more depending on the vine...I tend to brew my rue a lot more than most though, and I'm really sensitive to harmalas.

p.s. jamie I think you mean 50g, not 50mg

Well is there a chemical analysis on the syrian rue? I found the one on caapi but I can't find one on rue so im going by erowid's analysis. It would be cool to know for a fact the content of all alkaloids in syrian rue so we have an accurate way to compare to caapi.

Firstly try to understand that these are two different plant teachers, also the thread title is decieving. You clearly mean to ask,' How can i use Syrian rue to make ana/pharma-huasca, of similar strength to regular Aya-huasca'. (Note that Aya-huasca MUST contain the vine, to be called so)

I believe that 3-5 grammes is the regular, but like Jamie says, these are conservative 'home enthusiast' MAO inhibiting levels, meaning slightly higher doses may compare more closely to the true Jungle Ayahuasca's of 300+ grammes of Caapi brew, where the vine is the FUNDAMENTAL teacher, and the effects are far more pronounced.

Glad you finally got your trip Caterpiller!. Saw this on Erowid.


"For use as a MAOI, 3-5 g of seeds (approximately 1.5 mg harmala alkaloids per kilogram body mass) appears to be sufficient to activate oral DMT; i.e., no increase in activity is noted above these doses (Ott 1994; Shulgin 1997; G&Z 1986). Dosages from 3 g up to 28 g are taken to produce psychoactive effects (Shulgin 1997; Most 1985)."

So perhaps the dosage is based more on weight than most psychoactives typically are (Unlike LSD for example, which is much less based on individual weight.) not to mention that the potency of the rue seeds varies. I doubt if there's any plant on this earth whose alkaloid content doesn't vary.

"Peganum harmala (Syrian Rue) seeds contain approximately 3% (2-6%) harmaline, harmine, and other harmala alkaloids (Shulgin 1997; Most 1985; G&Z 1985)"

https://www.erowid.org/p...ue/syrian_rue_dose.shtml

Thanks man that trip meant more to me than most people could understand. Im thinking of moving to iquitos peru for about a year im sick of the western materialistic ways of life im going out into the jungle and I will find a shaman and live with him/her for a year. I found out what the leopard meant its actually in the bible .

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? And you, can you do what is right, you so accustomed to wrong? -- Jeremiah, 13,23

I think it means that I know western life is wrong the way we treat each other but I still stay here because its my way of life its what I was born into. Im going to peru and when I come back I will not be so naive.