I would like to share my experience with Ayahuasca. I've only been a part of two ceremonies, back to back. The second, and last, ceremony was pure hell. It was so bad that I don't know if I'll ever do another ceremony.

So I'd like to get some advice from experienced Psychonauts.

I found a very supportive local group to take part in a ceremony with. The ceremony was very structured, and great pains were taken to create the right set and setting. We were smudged, we were prepared, I was around nice people from all walks of life and different age groups. I asked Grandmother Ayahuasca not to blast me into Hyperspace, and to provide me with healing.

The first ceremony was easy. Just a light buzz, we all sang songs and I listened to people purge all night long. The Shaman told us the Ayahuasca was entering our systems and testing us out, checking things out a bit. The next day I felt good and refreshed. Piece of cake.

The next evening we had the second ceremony. Within 20 minutes, I started to get hot. I was burning up. The first purgers started to puke, and all of a sudden the ceremony room "changed". It's hard to describe, because I didn't totally leave the room. The room just added a new dimension. It looked demonic if you ask me. New colors were added, a new depth, it felt like I was in the "Ayahuasca room". The brew was working. I was in another dimension, but still in the same room as I could see everyone. It was horrible.

Things were getting worse. I broke into a sweaty fever and kneeled at the edge of my mat sweating and panting. I couldn't understand why I had decided to do this to myself and I vowed never to do it again. I made an attempt to ask for help, and someone in the room made a movement towards me but then retracted (I later learned that they weren't sure if I had asked for help or not...they were waiting for me to ask for help one more time). At that point, I realized I was totally alone in Hell. I had one shot to ask for help, and blew it. There was no one to help me.

I started to panic even more. I was kneeling on my mat, burning up, and it reminded me of being judged before God for all your past sins. I was on my hands and knees. Then I lost control of my mind. It was like intense vertigo. I was rendered practically immobile, and I could no longer control my thoughts. It was the definition of insanity. There was this ominous black cloud hovering over my head, with what looked like vaguely outstretched glob-like arms.

Things were getting progressively worse and worse. I was sweating profusely. With a fever, my mind spinning out of control, kneeling at the edge of my mat tearing at my hair, I reached the pinnacle of Hell...and then I heard a VOICE. The voice was obnoxious and abrupt. It was like the voice spat at me.

The voice told me the health condition I always feared was TRUE. I HAD this health condition and I KNEW it. The voice told me this at the pinnacle of my fever. It was a health condition I have harbored a deeply entrenched fear of for most of my life. Something that struck at the core of my being, the core of my identity in this life time. One of my darkest fears. So I flopped down onto the mat.

Then my rational sensibilities kicked in. I analyzed the information I was given logically. The "Ayahuasca" had lied to me. There was NOTHING in my life to indicate that this was true. It didn't make sense. I got back up and told it that it had lied. Silence. It did not respond.

Tripping balls, I realized that the Shaman was calling in aliens with the Icaros. These were not spirits, they were ALIENS. I simply couldn't stand it anymore. I stood up, and fumbled towards the door. The Shaman looked at me in astonishment, surprised that I was able to stand. Barely able to put on my shoes, I stumbled outside and walked in circles in a drug-induced stupor. I was barely in control of my faculties, the brew had such a stranglehold on me.

Fortunately, there was a chair outside and I just sat there in the cold. Thinking about everything. Mainly about aliens, about God, about the origins of humanity. And I listened to the Shaman sing and laugh over and over again. It felt as if the Shaman was showing people an alien. She had the skills to do it. I was flabbergasted.

Eventually, someone cajoled me back into the ceremony room. I felt a bit better, a bit more in control.

As I sat on my mat once again, I had to face a second fear. My morbid fear of Tarantulas. Honestly, I don't want to disrespect another living species. Tarantulas are docile, and I'm sure they have their own purpose for existing. I just can't stand the sight of them. Eight legs creeps me out. It's a phobia, but there it was front and center.

There was a big Tarantula crawling right in front of my face. Sort of in mid air. It's front legs were moving tauntingly. Sort of like...tickle, tickle, tickle. Surprisingly, I wasn't destroyed by the image given my strong phobia. I tried to just brush it away, but it wouldn't go away. It was just going to tickle it's front legs in front of me. I was going to have to wait until the Ayahuasca wore off.

In the mean time, my mind was wandering off and imagining hyper intelligent Tarantulas entering space ships that conformed to their bodies. They were preparing for war. This wasn't a detailed vision, just a bunch of images in my mind.

Finally, the ceremony ended and the lights came on. Thank God it was OVER. I walked outside and told someone I had gone to Hell. The Shaman overheard me, and came to speak to me. I told her about the lie I was told. She told me to get it checked. Of course I did get it checked the first moment I could and my hunch was correct. It had been a lie. But I felt so much better after getting it checked. Like a huge weight had been lifted.

The morning after the ceremony the Shaman came to speak with me privately. She tried to get me to heal. She told me that the Ayahuasca had released the toxicity of my fears from my system even though I never purged once (I did defecate after the ceremony). She confided intensely personal trauma she had experienced as a child in order to get me to heal. It was a very nice thing of her to do. She told me that most people have only 1 or 2 "bad" ceremonies, and that every ceremony is different.

I'm at a crossroads and need advice...

How am I ever going to be part of another ceremony again? Should I even try? Do the pros outweigh the cons? Is it worth me risking going back to Hell again in order to get a taste of the medicine? Seems like many people have been healed. I am seeking healing as well. Even though I've always had a strong body, I've always felt a bit psycho-spiritually "sick". Life has never been wonderful. It's actually been pretty painful. Especially my childhood and adolescence. There's this recurring theme in my thoughts that somehow, I was given the short-end of the stick in life.

Am I a BAD PERSON for having this hellish Ayahuasca experience? Have you ever been on your hands and knees before? Maybe I should just stick with shrooms...

Thank you for listening!

what makes you think it wasn't a healing experience? sure it was scary, but you need those once in a while to remind you of the power of psychedelics. you gotta understand it isn't the psychedelics telling you or creating these thoughts but yourself. psychedelics are like a catalyst that enables you to think of things you never would before, they don't necessarily place pre-conceived thoughts into you. that is all in your mind. you got over your fear of having some sort of health condition and you learned to cope with your fear of tarantulas, it isn't harming you so let it be is the lesson eye got from reading that part.

eye haven't tried ayahuasca but IME with shrooms, the first half up to the peak seems to be the uncomfortable part where all the fear/doubt in my thoughts are, and then the second half is complete bliss and understanding of the first half. it's like walking through hell to get to heaven.

psychedelic healing is the opposite of alcohol, you dont drink til you forget your problems. you face them head on until you've come to peace with them.

eye would recommend you take some time to re-evaluate your last ceremony before partaking in another

Why do you think it was a bad experience? Don't you think you can learn from it? Don't you think it helped you?

It sounds to me like you got exactly what you needed You were made to face your fears, and you survived. Now you know for certain you don't have the health condition. Would you have gotten it checked out without Ayahuasca, or would you have let the doubt/fear eat away at you?
You say you have a phobia of tarantulas. Phobia is a fear so great it paralyses you, makes you unable to function. You faced a large tarantula and, in your own words, you were surprised it didn't destroy you.

Is it possible Ayahuasca was trying to show you that you shouldn't let your fears control you because in reality you are able to handle the things you're afraid of, even if you thought you can't? That you are as strong as you believe you are? Please think about it.

Everything you say tells me that your life isn't where you want to be because you keep telling yourself lies about how sick and weak you are, how unable to handle life you are, how it is your fate to have a bad life. Ayahuasca told you a lie to show you the truth in one thing (you don't have the sickness you feared you have.) Your lies destroy you, Ayahuasca's lie made you stronger. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't want more healing. It sounds like you still have a lot to face.

I agree with Godzy, sounds like a healing experience. I also agree that you should take a lot of time to integrate and come to terms with this healing experience. It doesn't sound like you have even begun to understand it yet and until you do, it's better to stay grounded here and not try to go on another journey. The mind is an amazing thing, but there are times when it's more fragile than usual and right after a healing experience, especially one you have a hard time coming to terms with, is one of those times. Give your mind the time and the rest it needs. Give yourself the love and care you need. <3

No matter what you are afraid of, Aya will throw it in your face with an intensity you can barely stand, but also not more.

I can realate to how you must felt. My first 2 Ceremonies where like that. I also have some form of spiderphobia and of course they where a huge part of it.

Don't worry, nothing you said about the ceremony and the surroundings made me feel suspicious.
The first couple of ceremonies can be hard, but it gets better, your body will tolerate Aya more and more.

It seems to me like you are mostly dealing with you own fear/anxiety and project these onto the whole experience.
I don't know how much fear related personal stuff you have to work through, but this will end.

Ask yourself: No matter how horrible the experience itself was, how do you feel afterwards, in comparsion to before?
Closely observe yourself, take your time.

I dont see anything to say this was a bad experience - I think difficult experience might be more what I would call it. I have never had a bad experience with Ayahuasca, but I have had lots of difficult ones.

I would say that in my experience Ayahuasca is the hardest plant medicine to work with. I have never tried iboga or datura and I think those might be harder even, but out of all the plants I have worked with Ayahuasca is by far the hardest and most challenging. I have found that it is worth the challenge for me personally, but I have pretty specific goals for my practice - I dont think Ayahuasca is for everyone though.

My first time meeting Ayahuasca was 7 ceremonies during a 2 week dieta in the Amazon. First 4 ceremonies were same dose size with same batch of brew. #1 was gentle, #2-3 were horribly painful with no visions or insights but the worst pain of my life, and #4 was the deepest of all my Ayahuasca experiences and one of the best experiences of my life. I wanted to go home so bad after nights 2-3, and I am so glad I stuck it out for #4.

I would say that if you are meant to work with Ayahuasca you will feel her call your heart. You will feel drawn to her. If you dont feel that right now, then work with other plants, and maybe one day in the future she will call you again. Mushrooms or San Pedro can be great to work with if Ayahuasca seems to intense. Salvia is another great one (I only recommend chewing it, not smoking).

Travsha, I can't imagine what a "bad" Ayahuasca experience would be like!

Thank you ALL for listening to my experience and offering your input. I am most grateful...

"Bad experience" I would say is one where you learned nothing and came out of ceremony hurt in someway... Something bad happened to you.

If the ceremony is difficult I would assume that you at the least did some energetic work and I have found that if I dont understand the ceremony right away then I probably will somewhere down the line (sometimes months later actually - suddenly it makes sense!). It might not be pleasant, but maybe you learned something or at least came out of it unharmed. Maybe you did some energetic preparation work for your next ceremony (I have had to do this a few times - you just have to clean and shift a bit energetically to receive Ayahuasca better).

I think sometimes labeling things "bad" can make it harder to learn from them and see the good in them. How could something "bad" have good effects in your life?

Are you on any medications? What was in the brew?

Many people feel very cold on Ayahuasca - I've never heard of someone having a fever or seriously overheating on just caapi and chacruna. It may be that you had an adverse reaction caused by independent factors?

The psychological component sounds pretty par for the course to me (I think the other Nexians have done a pretty good job walking you through that), but the physical aspects of your report make me raise an eyebrow

Blessings
~ND

One time, i had quite the same reaction on pharmahusaca (SR and MHRB extracts), floored for 2-3 hours sweating like crazy. I was on the floor in my shower and i could see a 'river' of my own sweat runing and it was associated with strongs fears (if i had a panic button, i would hit it a lot).
I think an other human being (sitter, shaman, ...) could help a lot to feel better in this case but as OP, nobody came (i was alone).
I wasn't on medication and my diet wasn't too bad, so i think it can happen, even if it's not usual.

Nathaniel, no I'm not on any medications. Indeed, I got very hot as I was building up to the "peak" of the intoxication. I may have been sweating out of fear. I was very afraid. I also experienced vertigo as I couldn't control my thoughts.

I was told the DMT came from Chacruna.

DansMaTete, I gotta ask...why would you ever drink Ayahuasca alone? Why wouldn't you want the support of an experienced Shaman and group? I could never drink Aya alone.

This is a strange question. There is no One True Way. That is the answer Maybe for DansMaTete someone else would have been beneficial, but that doesn't apply to everyone at every point of their journey. I've been on a very deep (breakthrough and beyooooond) trip that was very trying and broke me up quite a bit (but after integration I was better than ever) and that time around I was glad to have the guidance of an experienced person who loved me and helped me integrate my experience. I've also taken a level 4-ish dose of mushrooms and that time around other people would have only been in the way, it was definitely a trip I needed to do alone. My next "breakthrough" level experience will be alone and I believe it's for the best.

Different circumstances, different paths, different points... No Way is the Only Way.

My comment on that:
For my first try outs, I wanted and got that support, since then solo has been no problem, but each has to know him/herself and nobody can say that it is okay for another one. On the ayahuasca forum there is a whole section dedicated to solo, so it is not uncommon. I still do groups now and then.

Multiple times I got very hot with caapi and chacruna. Sweaty - like I was purging through my heat and sweat. From talking to different shamans in Peru it seems fairly common....

Hey archaic_revival_,

It's sad that you have had such a negative experience – I hope you are ok right now. I fully understand that my opinion will sound unorthodox, but I feel that an alternative opinion should be stated here.

You see, the most common view which is held by psychedelic community is that all DMT/Ayahuasca experiences are about healing. The bad trips don't exist – only difficult ones, which are, paradoxically, also the most rewarding ones. Basically, if you get a full-blown beat down at the ports of hell by some evil entity – you should be most grateful. Then, you should go ponder yourself, how you have manifested such fear, aggressiveness, rage, negativity – this is called “integration”.

At some point you realize that it all comes from your own impaired beliefs, childhood traumas, bad cognitions and what not, and the trip only tried to show you this. You resisted that knowledge – hence negative experience, but once you accept this knowledge – you have fully integrated the trip and are considered healed. Of course, this process of so called integration and healing may take different forms, but the basic mechanism works like I described.

Well, I disagree with this commonly held belief. And I use the phrase “so called” before integration and healing for a reason. Simply put, my alternative point of view is this:

1. The experience should be taken at face value. If, during the trip, you went to hell and meet the devil, then you have indeed been to hell and met the devil. No matter how hard you will try to make it something different after you return from the trip and start “integrating”.

2. After returning back to normal, you have two choices: stop doing DMT/Ayahuasca (like you vowed during the trip) or re-appraise the whole experience (= tell yourself a lie to cover-up the hellish experience). Thus, “integrating a difficult experience” is akin to trying to convince yourself, that it wasn't hell, devil and torture, but cosmos, divine teacher and healing.

3. As times passes and your memory of the actual trip fades away, you will be more and more able to make yourself believe that it was “just a difficult trip” or even “just a trip”. The real horror you felt during the trip, which is a perfectly suitable fear/flight reaction if you come to hell, will be waved away as something “representing my own inner fear”. At this point you have “integrated” the trip and are ready to move on.

As you can see, archaic_revival_, my opinion is quite different from what you have probably heard until now. I believe that the rabbit hole, we all so bravely dive into, ultimately leads to hell, and not to “divine cosmic healing”. Of course, I am not stating that I know the truth while others don't, or any other ego-inflating nonsense. I am simply stating my alternative opinion on this topic, not offending what others believe. At the end, everybody decides for him/herself what he/she wants to believe.

With kind regards.

Have you ever had an Ayahuasca experience or have you just smoked DMT?

If it's the later, your opinion does not carry much weight at all.

I have taken most of my psychedelics before ever being part of some "internet psychedelic community" or heard about anyone's "commonly held beliefs". The people I had around me or the people who guided me were mostly adamant about not telling anyone what their experience meant or how they should deal with it, not even by asking questions, just being there and letting the process take place. In return for your view, let me offer you my view that has been formed uncorrupted by "commonly held beliefs of the psychedelic community":

A trip where you experience debilitating fear, terror, hate, and anger, is a trip where you really experience those emotions. It's also good. Let me repeat that: you absolutely should experience debilitating fear, terror, hate and anger and that doesn't make your trip bad no matter where you think it came from. I don't know if that's a commonly held belief or not, but it's one I can personally attest to My most difficult trip was absolutely terrifying, I felt atavistic panic. I got my ego ripped to peaces, all my blocked memories and fears thrown at me, all my mistakes and regrets thrown at me and all my misconceptions pointed out to me in crystal clarity. When I came back from the trip, I wasn't the same person because I knew for sure the way I'd been living my life for some time was completely wrong. It was a traumatic experience but the person who sent me to that trip was there. That person didn't tell me what it meant, that person was just there to answer any questions if I had any and just to listen to me work out my experience. That experienced changed my life completely for the better. I never once have regretted giving up everything in my life at that point in my life because it was all wrong and I had to give it all up and I'm glad I did.

I wouldn't be alive today without that trip, that's a fact. So yes, I'm grateful for that terror, fear, anger and disillusionment. I needed it. I'm glad I experienced it.
I'm glad I experienced the terror of everything I believed to be true being ripped apart in front of me as I desperately tried to hold on to it before letting go. I'm glad I experienced that really traumatic experience. I'm glad I healed after it Otherwise I would have been stuck in a deep dark place full of delusion until my early death.

There are no good feeling and bad feelings. There are just feelings that help you and feelings that harm you and sometimes a feeling can do both and whether it helps you or not isn't really dependent on the feeling but how you relate that feeling to your life.

You can feel really happy on heroin and meth but it doesn't mean the happiness is helping you, at least in the long-term. Of course in that moment you can tell yourself it's helping you and in that fleeting moment, your belief is your reality and it's helping you because you tell yourself it's helping you.

Similarly, in that fleeting moment after a trip, if you tell yourself that your terror and the sorrow you experienced on your trip is hurting you, that belief becomes your reality. It's hurting you because you believe it's hurting you. It will keep hurting you if your belief never changes to allow you to believe you can work through the very real terror you felt, find out what it meant and what the experience can teach you.

If you don't believe every experience can teach you something then your learning will be forever limited, stunted. One side of the coin is half the truth. Only seeking the positive in feelings, experiences and journeys will lead to a close-minded and incomplete view of the reality around you if you're never able to accept the reality and the necessity of the negative in this reality. If you believe the world to be black and white you'll miss out on all the colours but that doesn't mean the colours don't exist, it doesn't even mean you're unable to perceive them by your nature, it just means that you chose to close yourself inside a bubble with a special filter that filters out all the colours from the world. The bubble is your reality bubble but it's not the only bubble.

If they had a smiley doing the worship bow, I would respond with that.

I honestly don't think that Astral has even had a Ayahuasca experience. If he had, it would be incomprehensible to me that he still held that belief.

IMO, people who advocate "integration" are not into "making it something different".
Why would they want to change the experience, what benefit would come out of such denial?
Integration is, IMO, no stick-head-in-the-sand-action, as you describe it.
Integration only gets serious by taking the experience serious, and in this "we" are on one page with your view. If the experience was to be minimized then there was nothing much to be integrated. The difference with your point is: you stop where integration-people just get started.

So yes, as you go into the rabbit hole you will find (amongst others) true hell. One could also not do that as an alternative, but will one be spared of hell in daily life? Hell in the trip can, if you want and if you're able to, be a training area how to deal with hell on earth. Both are potentially tweak-able but not without getting known first. One has to right to pass on such exercise occasion, and is how I read your attitude, and I respect that, free choice. I also believe not everyone is suited for the exercise at hand.