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DMT and pregnancy Options
 
Ufostrahlen
#21 Posted : 6/1/2015 8:41:18 PM

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Quote:
I have a very close friend who took both LSD and psilocybin, as well as cannabis during her pregnancy and her daughter is now 5, and quite intelligent for her age. If there are risks, they do not seem to have effected her.

Related:

Quote:
The Effects of Hallucinogen Use During Pregnancy
Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD)


Most animal studies on LSD have not shown adverse effects on pregnancy, other than fetal loss at high doses (Alexander et al, 1970). However, central nervous system and ocular defects were associated with fetal LSD exposure in studies involving mice and hamsters (Auerbach et al, 1967; Geber et al, 1967). Sally Long (1972) examined the reports of 162 children of parents who took LSD before or during pregnancy. Of these children, seven were thought to have defects that could potentially be attributed to LSD intake. These included mostly cases of limb defects and one case of megacolon. Another series of cases reported by Jacobson et al (1972) included reports of sacral myelomeningocele, heart defects, including tetrology of Fallot and an AV malformation, various limb defects and hydrocephalus. It was also speculated at the time that LSD could directly alter DNA and result in cellular abnormalities. Apple et al (1974) observed an exposed fetus with extensive ocular malformations (including marked cortical degeneration of the left eye lens and partial opaqueness of the cornea) and anencephaly.

However, there is no solid epidemiological evidence of a cause-and-effect relationship between LSD use and congenital anomalies (McGlothlin et al, 1970). The greatest drawback to the aforementioned studies on LSD and hallucinogens in general is that people who use LSD as a recreational drug during pregnancy are more likely to use other drugs as well (e.g., cannabis, alcohol, tobacco), more likely than someone in the average population to have infectious diseases such as gonorrhea and hepatitis, and more likely to be exposed to additional risk factors that could also have an adverse effect on pregnancy. Since the 1970s, there have been few studies done on the teratogenic effects of LSD.

http://fetal-exposure.or...en-use-during-pregnancy/


Non approved drugs during pregnancy? Thumbs down Thumbs down Thumbs down
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jamie
#22 Posted : 6/2/2015 2:54:40 AM

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The Traveler wrote:
jamie wrote:
I have a very close friend who took both LSD and psilocybin, as well as cannabis during her pregnancy and her daughter is now 5, and quite intelligent for her age. If there are risks, they do not seem to have effected her.

You cannot state that jamie. You do not know how she would have been if her mother had not taken any entheogen since there is no control group.

Also a study with a sample-size of one is not enough data to make any conclusion.


Kind regards,

The Traveler


I did not state anything other than what I observed subjectively. I never suggested this was an objective observation, or on par with a study that includes a control group. Again(for a 3rd time) I said my friend took LSD and psilocybin while pregnant, and that her daughter seems to be just fine, is smart, her teachers say she is smart and she seems to have adjusted to life like any other child would.

..or am I not allowed to relate a personal story here?
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slewb
#23 Posted : 6/2/2015 3:06:48 AM

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I think the point is that you said it doesn't seem to have affected the child, but there is no way of knowing whether or not that is true since you have no point of reference or a control.

I think psychedelics during pregnancy are probably not a problem, but why risk it? Until we know for sure, I can't think of a situation where someone would need to use psychedelics so badly that they could justify possibly jeopardizing the health of their child.
 
jamie
#24 Posted : 6/2/2015 3:23:26 AM

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I think we all know exactly what I meant, actually. We could argue over little semantic distractions all day, or not.
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anrchy
#25 Posted : 6/2/2015 3:35:06 AM

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jamie wrote:
I think we all know exactly what I meant, actually. We could argue over little semantic distractions all day, or not.


In other words the control group being other children in the world as a comparison to what caused Jamie to state that she seems unaffected.

What we can take from that is, psychedelics can be taken and there is the POSSIBILITY there will be zero serious defects that would cause the child to have a more difficult time in life than is considered normal.
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Doc Buxin
#26 Posted : 6/3/2015 1:08:12 AM

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jamie wrote:
who is "we"?



Apparently, it's Chan & I.

We don't subscribe to the idea of dosing any being that does not, or cannot, consciously consent to it.
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Nathanial.Dread
#27 Posted : 6/3/2015 2:13:01 AM

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Doc Buxin wrote:
jamie wrote:
who is "we"?



Apparently, it's Chan & I.

We don't subscribe to the idea of dosing any being that does not, or cannot, consciously consent to it.

There's quite a bit of debate as to whether a fetus is 'conscious' in any way that we might recognize is. My personal hunch is that a human probably isn't really conscious until quite some time after birth, honestly.

LSD and related ergolines are labor inducing, so, even if DMT is okay, you should probably avoid acid.

Blessings
~ND
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travsha
#28 Posted : 6/3/2015 3:33:32 AM

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slewb wrote:

I think psychedelics during pregnancy are probably not a problem, but why risk it? Until we know for sure, I can't think of a situation where someone would need to use psychedelics so badly that they could justify possibly jeopardizing the health of their child.

People I know didnt use psychedelics during pregnancy for themselves - they thought it would be beneficial for their child in that state.

This is actually a common view for many communities in South America and in religions like Santo Daime. Only study I know of seems to suggest it could actually be helpful.
 
The Traveler
#29 Posted : 6/3/2015 7:01:34 PM

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jamie wrote:
..or am I not allowed to relate a personal story here?

I was mostly responding to your "If there are risks, they do not seem to have effected her.". It is impossible to know that since you do not know how she would have been if her mother never had smoked DMT during her pregnancy.

The issue here is that we do not know if taking DMT during pregnancy has serious side effects or not. So until we know the best advice is to be careful and to not take DMT during pregnancy.


anrchy wrote:
jamie wrote:
I think we all know exactly what I meant, actually. We could argue over little semantic distractions all day, or not.


In other words the control group being other children in the world as a comparison to what caused Jamie to state that she seems unaffected.

And the sample size of people who took DMT is still 1, so we still cannot say anything about this. Demographic studies need a lot more data.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Ufostrahlen
#30 Posted : 6/3/2015 7:13:47 PM

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He wasn't a pediatrician, but when asked, Dr. Shulgin had an interesting answer regarding this topic:

Quote:
I have a simple axiom that I totally believe in. If you are pregnant, or if you might be pregnant, do not use any drugs. No drugs at all. Not just during the first trimester but in all three trimesters. Do not use LSD, do not use caffeine, do not even use special diets. Eat and behave normally. No behavioral extremes or even any climbs to the top of Mount Everest. In a year you will be back to your own self, and you can push your personal limits again just a little bit. But for that magical nine months cool it, and stay on a healthy, simple diet. Let your doctor advise you and keep watch over you and your developing baby.

http://www.cognitivelibe...rchive/lsd_pregnancy.htm
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Jees
#31 Posted : 6/3/2015 7:53:13 PM

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If all goes well, there's no problem.

When something does go wrong, a psychological can of worms opens, and will fire in all directions, substances included, justified or not, fueled by uncertainty.
Only eliminating substances all together can prevent that particular line of fire.
If in a case a self or posited guild feeling is actually unjustified, it's not going anywhere. Very annoying.
 
Bill Cipher
#32 Posted : 6/3/2015 8:42:38 PM

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Ufostrahlen wrote:
He wasn't a pediatrician, but when asked, Dr. Shulgin had an interesting answer regarding this topic:

Quote:
I have a simple axiom that I totally believe in. If you are pregnant, or if you might be pregnant, do not use any drugs. No drugs at all. Not just during the first trimester but in all three trimesters. Do not use LSD, do not use caffeine, do not even use special diets. Eat and behave normally. No behavioral extremes or even any climbs to the top of Mount Everest. In a year you will be back to your own self, and you can push your personal limits again just a little bit. But for that magical nine months cool it, and stay on a healthy, simple diet. Let your doctor advise you and keep watch over you and your developing baby.

http://www.cognitivelibe...rchive/lsd_pregnancy.htm


Thank you for the reality check and voice of reason.

Any advice to the contrary doled out by non-physicians in here (as well as thinly veiled anecdotal stories of friends whose babies didn't end up with twelve toes as a result of using psychedelics during pregnancy) is flippantly irresponsible and has no place in this forum.

My point of view is this: If you can't curtail your drug use, skydiving, bull fighting, racecar driving, cigarette smoking or whatever for all of nine months during pregnancy, you really don't have any business making and taking care of a child.

Anyway... forewarned is forearmed - I'm gonna start swingin' the ban hammer if the nonsense continues...
 
#33 Posted : 6/3/2015 9:04:18 PM
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Uncle Knucles wrote:
Ufostrahlen wrote:
He wasn't a pediatrician, but when asked, Dr. Shulgin had an interesting answer regarding this topic:

Quote:
I have a simple axiom that I totally believe in. If you are pregnant, or if you might be pregnant, do not use any drugs. No drugs at all. Not just during the first trimester but in all three trimesters. Do not use LSD, do not use caffeine, do not even use special diets. Eat and behave normally. No behavioral extremes or even any climbs to the top of Mount Everest. In a year you will be back to your own self, and you can push your personal limits again just a little bit. But for that magical nine months cool it, and stay on a healthy, simple diet. Let your doctor advise you and keep watch over you and your developing baby.

http://www.cognitivelibe...rchive/lsd_pregnancy.htm


Thank you for the reality check and voice of reason.

Any advice to the contrary doled out by non-physicians in here (as well as thinly veiled anecdotal stories of friends whose babies didn't end up with twelve toes as a result of using psychedelics during pregnancy) is flippantly irresponsible and has no place in this forum.

My point of view is this: If you can't curtail your drug use, skydiving, bull fighting, racecar driving, cigarette smoking or whatever for all of nine months during pregnancy, you really don't have any business making and taking care of a child.

Anyway... forewarned is forearmed - I'm gonna start swingin' the ban hammer if the nonsense continues...


Big grin Thumbs up
 
primordium
#34 Posted : 6/3/2015 9:06:45 PM

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kingofsnakes wrote:
Not wanting to detour on her journey for this new one exclusively


Why not?

What other reason could possibly be more valuable than "detour[ing]" for the sake of a new person?

As Terence McKenna said, "It's pretty simple, the ethical life - it's just demanding . . . The moral life does not consist of wheat grass diet, or affirmation, or any of that. The moral life is - unless you're at Esalen - you should clothe the naked, you should feed the hungry, comfort the afflicted, bury the dead, and there are a couple others - obvious - things to be done" (emphasis added).

The opportunity to be a mother is a blessing, but part of that blessing is the sacrifice it entails. My $0.02: she will do better attending to motherly sacrifices than blasting into hyperspace--either for the first time or the fourteenth. Pregnancy itself is one of the most transcendent gifts a human can experience: this is your chance to unconditionally love a soul whose physical form you co-created, a person who will demand you to ceaselessly cultivate your virtues. I could forgo anything, including my life, to safeguard the health of my children (that includes avoiding unnecessary risks, especially during particularly vulnerable times like gestation).

Uncle Knucles wrote:
My point of view is this: If you can't curtail your drug use, skydiving, bull fighting, racecar driving, cigarette smoking or whatever for all of nine months during pregnancy, you really don't have any business making and taking care of a child.

Anyway... forewarned is forearmed - I'm gonna start swingin' the ban hammer if the nonsense continues...


Well said.

As a father, I am appalled that (1) people are even considering this, and that (2) others are not-so-subtly sanctioning such acts. Thumbs down
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Doc Buxin
#35 Posted : 6/3/2015 11:34:08 PM

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Uncle Knucles wrote:
...If you can't curtail your drug use, skydiving, bull fighting, racecar driving, cigarette smoking or whatever for all of nine months during pregnancy, you really don't have any business making and taking care of a child...



Precisely.

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Bl1nd
#36 Posted : 7/20/2015 4:27:31 AM

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Many thanks for everyone's input, especially Travsha for the study link.
... not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace. Life is just a ride - Bill Hicks.
 
Hiyo Quicksilver
#37 Posted : 7/20/2015 12:06:09 PM

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The timely injection of reason into this thread has calmed the utter terror that struck my heart upon opening it from page 1.

For the sake of all that is good and beautiful in this world, may we please spare our children any risk to their health which we can possibly avoid? My god, the idea that some posting in this thread could condone or encourage such an act is just heartbreaking.

As a father who lost his child during a time of such pure and precious innocence, perhaps my perspective is skewed... But then again, perhaps it is not. We living beings on Earth are all of one family; Let us please care for our children with the purest of love and wisdom available to us. Please.

@kingofsnakes:

I hope that one members' post and one government's opinion is not enough to sway you toward any action that could possibly, in any way harm the life of an innocent and uninvolved young human being. Pregnancy is a spiritual journey in and of itself gifted to womankind by creation itself. I would hope that whatever sort of hubris or extremist spirituality has overtaken you is not enough to overwhelm what sense of respect for human life you may have.

Unless this woman happens to be Reverend Mother of the Bene Gesserit, the spice has no place whatsoever in the life of a child, born or unborn. This is not a book or a fantasy... This is human life we are discussing. Please fixate your fantastical ideals somewhere far away from this woman's womb, at least until she has given birth and is well.
 
Bl1nd
#38 Posted : 7/21/2015 1:11:20 PM

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Many thanks for your concern and I'm sorry for your loss. As a father, I can only imagine the nightmare that you must have gone though.
... not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace. Life is just a ride - Bill Hicks.
 
Bill Cipher
#39 Posted : 7/21/2015 5:45:09 PM

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With all due respect, the fact that her kids are intelligent doesn't detract from your friend's irresponsibility (or yours, if you choose to endorse it).

It's all well and good if any adult wants to live an alternative lifestyle, but I don't see how anyone justifies taking unnecessary chances with their unborn (or with their existing kids AND other peoples' kids by refusing to vaccinate, but that's another discussion...). None of that points to a level of Jedi enlightenment to me.
 
marz
#40 Posted : 7/21/2015 6:02:03 PM

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unnecessary chances aren't worth it its not fair to the baby if she feels the need to use while pregnant she might have substance abuse issues.
"PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS DON'T CHANGE YOU- THEY DON'T CHANGE YOUR CHARACTER-UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE CHANGED THEY ENABLE CHANGE THEY CAN'T IMPOSE IT...."
-ALEXANDER SHULGIN



It's time to move on to the next step in the psychedelic revolution
 
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