Next batch SWIM said he will give this info.

Thanks Xstacy! If possible, use everclear instead of denatured ethanol. I wouldn't want to inhale denatured alcohol.

I think that's your best bet. DMT HCl is so hygroscopic that it won't even crystallize without being in a desiccator. Once crystallized and taken out, it forms a wet mass again just by pulling water from the air.

I am pretty sure that 50 mg of DMT HCl will stay dissolved no matter how little water is used because it's so hydroscopic. I'm sure you can dissolve in it just a few drops of water and it will never crystallize out or separate from water. Same thing with bufotenine HCl I believe.

How would you create DMT-HCl from freebase?

Just dissolve freebase DMT in HCl, that's all. Then evaporate the excess HCl leaving pure DMT HCl. Nothing could be simpler!

This will work with "store bought, muriatic acid?" That's 10% HCl, right?

Of course you'd have to evap it in a dessicator, but that's not a problem. Thanks alot. That will be the first thing I try.

Can you think of any reason that it would be a bad thing to inhale in solution? Certainly, once it gets into the blood there's absolutely no problem buffering that in the quantity of 8-10 drops.

Would DMT-acetate be made in the same way? With that you'd want to try to estimate quantity in order to not have much acetate left over...

Same thing with DMT acetate. Just dissolve in vinegar and evaporate the vinegar.

DMT acetate is healthier because you can use food grade vinegar for it.

Right. I'm gonna try both HCl and vinegar, and see if there's much difference in the solubility of the product, and in the taste.

I'd love to try to nebulize some DMT N-oxide. It's a oil already so it should work good. I wonder how many drops you would need though. I don't have much experience with DMT N-oxide but I've had some really good experiences. Very smooth A friend of mine that's quite sensitive to it needs only around 25mg's of it for a breakthrough.

That's pretty cool!
So simple really.

Someone towards the beginning of this thread mentioned having ordered a nebulizer to try with DMT, I forget who it was though.

So did it show up yet?
Have you tried it yet?
How'd it work?

Except for the initial price being rather high, I am thinking that using a nebulizer could be quiet the revolution in taking DMT in through the lungs!!

WS

DMT N-Oxide is VERY NICE. I believe the high DMT N-Oxide content of chacruna is what makes authentic chacruna based ayahuasca so much nicer than mimosa based ayahuasca.

It’s already water soluble because of the N-Oxide. It’s hygroscopic from what I understand, and not actually oily. I believe it looks oily because it’s actually wet, but I’m not sure about that. If made into a salt does it become super water soluble?

The problem with DMT N-Oxide is that it’s sticky. It’s really hard to measure out doses of sticky material, so SWIM mixes in calcium carbonate as a filler to make it dry.

antrocles has received his nebulizer today--and thinks it looks cool. He has some stuff he's involved in for the next week or two that keeps him from experiementing with it...but I gave some suggestions on what he should work with first. Most importantly: I emphasized with him to please be careful:

ONLY PURE DMT and DISTILLED WATER in very SMALL AMOUNTS should be tried at first.

Below I'll reprint the relevant contents of a PM I just sent to antrocles on what I think are the ideal first experiements with the nebulizer.

#1: I want to know what it's like to inhale SIMPLE WATER VAPOR. Might it affect breathing? Give you some sort of "watery lung" feeling? Etc. So, I'd like to see the simple experiment of nebulizing about 10 drops of distilled water (of course STOPPING if anything feels wrong!). I would (1) Swish some 70% alcohol around the nebulizer medicine chamber to help sterilize--70% sterilizes better than 100%, btw (and, of course, read and be fully aware of similar suggestions with the nebulizer instructions) (2) Make sure the distilled water is clean!! Please no chugging out of the bottle and then loading up the same water into the nebulizer!

With this experiement I want to find out:
1) How many seconds does it take to nebulize 10 drops? You can just nebulize into the air when doing this.
2) By whatever means (pouring out?), how many drops FAIL to nebulize, and remain in the chamber.
3) Do some inhalations and see how it feels.

No matter how quickly the nebulizations take, I'd also like to do the following:
1) Get a clean 2 liter soda bottle and cut a small hole in the bottom to act as a "carb."
2) See if you can fill the bottle with nebulizer mist through the regular neck of the bottle. (experiement whether it's best to cover or uncover the hole on the bottom when filling.
3) See if it will work to "resevoir" the mist in this way, and then inhale all at once (making single hit dosing possible). HOWEVER, I suggest you start with SMALL AMOUNTS--I wouldn't try to BEGIN with inhaling the mist from all 10 drops at first. I THINK it would be OK, but let's work up from only 2-3 drops.



#2 Making DMT-acetate.
1) Unless you feel your spice is ULTRA-PURE (i.e., you happen to be a purity FANATIC), I suggest you do a final ROOM TEMP wash and recrystallization using the technique that warrensaged describes here (see his items 4&5).
2) According to 69ron (and it makes chemical sense to me), DMT-HCl or DMT-acetate are both made by the same process, simply add sufficient HCl or vinegar to the freebase, and wait for the excess water, HCl or acetic acid to evaporate. You may need to store the final bit in a jar with plenty of silicon moisture absorbers--either DMT-HCl or -acetate tends to be hygroscopic--meaning it will absorb water from the air, and have a hard time crystalizing in air with any humidity.
3) When you get your HCl/acetate you can start experiementing, of course AGAIN starting out VERY SMALL (both in terms of how much DMT you use AND in terms in how many drops you use). You can also experiement with the "resevoir" technique to try to get single hit doses. In my mind, there is SIGNIFICANT REASON TO BELIEVE that significantly smaller doses from the nebulizer will be needed compared to vaporization. With vaporization there's little doubt in my mind that at least some oxidation occurs.

Good idea, the n-oxide!

I just read some interesting stuff about e-cigarettes. The original Chinese patent employs an ultrasonic vaporizer, but unfortunately nowadays heat vaporization is mostly used.

I always thought they were ridiculous gadgets, but on second thought... they are basically ultra-compact vaporizers, who knows what will happen if you replace the 'e-liquid' containing nicotine with DMT-n-oxide solution. They are about $50, maybe worth a try but I'll wait until the bucks are flowing in again... some more research to do, just found out! Maybe the ultrasonic ones are still available somewhere.

[edit]Well, the original Ruyan V8 delivers only 0.053 mg nicotine per puff, and it automatically shuts down for half an hour after 15 puffs to protect the user. I don't think it will ever be able to deliver enough DMT. Not interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-cigarette#Nicotine_solution

Nicotine solutions are only a very small percent of nicotine, so perhaps it's still quite feasible.

Yeah!! Nicotine is an EXTRAORDINARILY powerful poison--it doesn't take much at all to kill you. Lethal dose for a person can be as low as 0.5mg/Kg.

Hmm, a little calculation just to get an idea of the order of magnitude...
Round the concentration up to 10% nicotin for convenience, assume 1 gram of liquid = 1 ml; 1 mg=0.001 ml. The volume of 10% nicotin solution evaporated for a puff is then 10 x 0.053mg x 0.001 = 0.00053 ml.

Say a 'puff' is maybe 1/3 of a big inhalation, and assume 3 big inhalations are needed... ok that's 10 puffs in quick succession for a breakthrough. Imagine that the liquid is 100% molten DMT, more optimistic is impossible. So, 10 puffs are 0.0053 ml, that's about 5.3 mg of DMT from 3 big inhalations or 10 cig-style puffs, enough for a threshold effect..

According to this over-optimistic scenario, the number of puffs needed for a breakthrough would be about a hundred in a few minutes - good luck, but the bloody thing will shut down to protect you
Correct me if I'm wrong, there was some THC involved!


That's only 50 mg for a heavy 100 kg person... wow. According to Wiki, concentration in tobacco is 0.6–3.0% of dry weight. Is it lethal to eat a few cigarettes?

LD-50 of nicotine given IV to mice is 0.3 mg/Kg. That's 30mg. for a big 100kg mouse. haha

Ok...so...did anyone test the nebulizer as an efficient means of DMT delivery? Its been a couple of weeks since the last post.

Inquiring minds want to know!

N.B.

The picrate and acetate salt of DMT N oxide have been made. The picrate is a solid although SWIM is not sure about the acetate.