For me, even relatively high doses of Syrian rue (7g+) provide nothing more than a sort of drunk feeling, and a LOT of nausea. No insight, tracers, or anything psychedelic. I'm curious as to what exactly you guys experience on just harmalas and nothing else.

In my experience I find moving around can feel like your drunk so I usually stay still and meditate in a dark room. I found that when I lay down in a dark room I can have some OEV and CEV on harmalas alone. I also found that I am able to meditate much easier. Quiet and calm myself more than usual. Music playing is very nice. The music seems to be enhanced by the harmalas. More vibrant and alive. Light some incense you enjoy as the sense of smell is also enhanced I feel.

70 grams of yellow caapi leads to intense tracers for me. Yes there is a drunkeness, but nothing like say alcohol. Personally I rather like caapi only brews.

For me, harmalas, in basically any dose, really shine when combined with other things like tryptamines, cannabis, and melatonin.

But several really interesting things begin to happen at high doses, especially in silent darkness. Some is virtually impossible to describe since it's the architecture of thought/awareness itself that shifts. The tracers are just the beginning. Thoughts unbraid in the dream trance into many avenues simultaneously, maybe to how a savant must perceive a vast field of data whereas most of the time we normal folk are zoned into a more linear awareness. Awareness can naturally blossom intricately evolving idea complexes. When entering the sedating visionary trance it's common to snap out of it the moment you realize you're experiencing/seeing something indescribable, then it will fade. It gets easier to stay in over time.

Like with regular ayahuasca type brews with DMT, it can get fairly Pablo Amaringo esque. It makes complete sense to me now that Caapi has been referred to as "The Force" with chacruna being "The Light". Or caapi being the cave, with chacruna being the torch that lights it all up.

Things can begin to seamlessly shift from being almost "imagined" or day dreamed about (i.e. thoughts, sounds, scenes, sensations), into actually being experienced as if it was happening.

This isn't that surprising when considering the brain imaging study on ayahuasca that found that people who visualized things while on the brew had brain activity similar to that if they were actually seeing it. Still, this doesn't explain what "it" is. My feeling is frequently that imagination/consciousness seems non-local in nature. When the veil lifts it's as if the core of the imagination/consciousness is further revealed, and some of these ones remind me of the 'object' Terence must have been talking about. And some kind of carry away of increasingly expansive visual perception and thought into sober life has been fascinating.

With harmalas it can be almost like a field or collective unconscious that is tapped into, and any place/person/thing/imagining could be experienced. Funny enough when walking around these 'places' I tend to be very harmala'd, and sometimes have difficulty walking.

Anyways, the nausea at the doses that bring in more classical type OBEs can be heavy, but when laying down still in the dark you can find the sweet spot and it gets easier over time. The out of body experiences come during the trances, in many different ways. But all with that 0 gravity feeling that's probably more similar to what people mean when they say 'astral projection' than hyperspace, most of the time. On a caapi trance, I've had what seemed like a type of orb or ufo approach, and pull me out of my body in a beautiful jungle green light that was very euphoric. Or just hopping a stair railing in the trance space, with that moment of mid-air 0 gravity triggering it. A lot of strange scenarios in the trances have triggered OBEs for me where I'm floating around the room spinning. It can be fairly confusing and nauseating at times.

Long story short I think they're vastly underrated and play well with others

This rings true for me as well. I can recall experiences with just caapi where behind closed eyes, I literally feel like I'm in a cave of DMT patterns that is not illuminated. The same effect has also seemed to me like observing the skeleton of DMT. It's got all of the structure, but the specific content and color is difficult to discern.

To me,. that is the defining characterstic of harmala alkaloids. But there are other effects such as hearing sounds ("swwoooooooooooshhhhhh" to seeing floral patterns.

Wow guys that sounds cool

I'm a little jealous I can't get any of those. Maybe I have really high tolerance.

Yeah I tend to hear a lot of jaguar or big cat type sounds for some reason. Sometimes it startles me quite a bit . I usually don't hear any 'music' though unless DMT is involved, as far as I can remember.




That's a great way to put it!

I'm very much young in the ways of the Harmal, and have never more than crudely smoked low dosages, but i find the cave and torch analogy profound. I'm most familiar with the effects of Rue in concert with cannabis, and i find that it somehow'creates the canvas'-the cave-for the cannabis to paint visions upon.

This happens in quiet -as far as intrusive stimuli, music is great- spaces. Interacting with my environment tends to make to experience disappear.

I'm starting to feel my way thru harmala space, finding how it can be used as an ally for me. I have over used it and had some very uncomfortable side effects, that may or may not actually be due to rue alone but is enough for me to proceed with caution. But more and more, I'm thinking harmalas are where is at.

What do you do while on it? Sometimes not much will be happening until you lay down in silent darkness and really slow your breathing down. It also seems like somewhat of a learned thing that over time begins easier to get into. My first few high doses definitely weren't as interesting as later on, even though it was higher than I've ever taken since. There seems to be a reverse tolerance with it for me, but I also usually combine it with melatonin and I have a peculiar diet compared to most, so those probably factor into it.

I sit down and meditate, and I do find it easier to get into a meditative state, but I attributed that to the sort of "drunken" relaxed state that it induces. Definitely no tracers or OEVs/CEVs.

I usually partake of harmalas as a pre flight lubricant for my salvaic meditation journeys (always with smoked plain leaf salvia). It smooths out the jagged edge of the diviners sage experience beautifully. The harmalas are crude rue alkaloids infused on mullein.

Sometimes I occasionally get in more harmaloids than I was planning and enter into a deep introspective headspace where there are muted tryptamine like visual spaces waiting to be unveiled, kind of similar to how Global described it above.

I have found them to be a teacher almost as much as the sage goddess is in some respects (though not so much in other respects), at least a few times I didn't get past my initial pre dose harmalas as I got a solid enough teaching from the harmalas themselves that it would've been disrespectful to venture off into the illuminated salvaic spaces.

There's quite a few factors here for me.

Low dosages of harmalas for me have always given me this intense warmth/lightness of being. The most pronounced effect for me is the thinning out of any thoughts that I might be having. Thoughts could start out, popping into and out of existence, a steady stream of thoughts. As the harmalas set in though, this consistency in thoughts starts to dwindle, eventually getting to a point (and a big portion of this stage is dependent on how still/focused I am) where my thoughts are nearly non-existent; just this ever-present awareness, transcendent in many ways, nothing sticking whatsoever. Having thoughts thinned out to such a degree, i've found, allows you to get into the flow of the day, nothing impeding your mind. This adds to say that harmalas ime heavily promote a mind-state very nurturing for meditation. Synchronicities are also much more common during harmalas as well for me, especially pre-cognition in varying degrees with my close friends/etc.

Higher dosages are when tracers/flowing tendrils whisp off of everything, i can't stand nor walk and my thoughts (or whatever's left of them) string out into the ether, one by one giving rise to very dreamy visions (need to be still/darkness for this to really be fostered). If the dosages are high enough, im typically layed out, bed or floor, can't move and am washed over in intense visionary states, sometimes VERY clear and concise in whats being viewed, whether it be person/s, places, things, w/e. Nausea is usually present, following an intense purge. (which funny enough, I sometimes don't get much of any stomach upset in high dosages).

I really like working with lower dosages versus higher, unless im going all in for an oral journey.

Tregar just posted a quote that is very relevant here and reflects my own thoughts (even down to maroon being a dominant color of the vine/rue only visions...although that's more with rue than caapi for me)

This is from Gale Highpine's "Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca" section entitled "The vine and the leaf".

I definitely agree there. Taking active doses daily for long periods of time contributed to increasing this sort of thing to a staggering degree for me.

Those day dreamed "images" we all can have are reminiscent of harmalas qualities...Sometimes they are brushed off as random things floating in, only to later find out that they had significance. A mundane example would be having an image of a friend and then receiving a call from them...A more extreme example would be having random images of earthquakes/tsnumanis in japan and then seeing it on the news hours later.

I saw a bunch of spaceships going to the outer universe and find a green space all dust and nebulalike. then later i got a brain zap really hard and saw this green flash for a second I also saw a sattelite which was a light I was following a few weeks earlier which stood still but moved later. I biked over it like ET and it was a satellite in my harmala vision. Good chance that it was, I thought it was UFO

Aside from the physical effects that harmala causes on my rabbit (which are strong and nasty indeed for him,)

He experiences very mild visuals, a sense of incorrectness regarding dimensional space (things don't seem to be the right distance or line up correctly), and a sensation which he can only compare to "cloud-watching" - objects and characters form out of otherwise normal patterns/objects in his field of vision..such that he might see a face from looking at a bumpy wall, sofa or carpet. Just like how one might see things while watching clouds, but intensified greatly (in fact he has cloud-watched on harmala and that in itself was intensified!)

I think that the overall distortion that harmalas cause play a role in the nausea that my rabbit experiences from them. He actually does enjoy that feeling (along with the standard MAOI effects that harmala causes), but in combination with the negatives that harmala causes for him, it's not worth pursuing to any significant level.