I've been growing HBWR for the last 4 years. In the last year it flowered and seeded twice! It loves me I've never done a nonpolar/polar extraction but I got some heptane and hundreds of fresh seeds. Last time I only ate 4 ground seeds toss and wash style...intense nausea, vasoconstriction with heavy psychedelia cev and oev like low dose lsd for about 6 hours and then sleep.

How lomg should one soak the ground seed in the NP solvent, like a few hours or overnight? I'm thinking about using ISO and just letting everything evaporate real clean to make sure there's no solvent leftover

Here are a couple of options to look at if you have not already. I know this doesn't answer your question directly but...

https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=8606

or

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=35607

or

Quote from Funkyhunky:

An annoying neighbor that lives down the street wrote this fictional story.

1st Time - 3 HBWR: Empty stomach, no nausea, stoned feeling

2nd Time - 5 HBWR: Slight indication of nasea, stoned feeling, euphoric body load.

3rd Time - 7 HBWR: Extracted into everclear over the course of 24 hours with cinnamon and peppermint essential oil added. Intense nausea, vomiting forcibly induced ~ 1.5 hours. Afterwards, psychedelic headspace, pleasurable sedative body load, strong euphoria. Very mild breathing of textured walls when focusing, enhanced color. The neighbor theorizes the cinnamon essential oil and everclear intensified the nausea.

4th Time (yesterday) - 8 HBWR: Seeds ground and placed in shot glass, covered with 2 cm of olive oil. After 1 hour, oil discarded and replaced with fresh oil. After another hour oil poured off and tap water added to brim of shot glass, and a few pieces of sliced garlic added, this was then put in the refrigerator for 0.5 hours. Water was poured off from ground seeds and ingested on full stomach with a small dose of cannabis tincture. Cannabis tincture was felt for ~2 hours after which the HBWR extract overpowered and turned the experience markedly psychedelic. Colors were enhanced, great headspace and once again a pleasurable sedative body load was experienced. Mild, bearable nausea was noticed for ~3hrs after kicking in.

I forgot you could use olive oil as a nonpolar agent.

I've eaten seeds raw, just chewed them up (pretty bad nausea and vasoconstriction). Ground, toss and wash, cwe soaking for 12 hours and straining (less nauseating and less leg pain but weaker trip per seed). I've also tried soaking ground seeds in vodka for 12 hours and this was similar to CWE but with a nice alcohol buzz before the sedation and mild nausea kicked in.

I want to try and make a tincture doing a np/p extraction to see if purified LSAs are worth the effort.

Without column chromatography you will not have purified LSA.

i'm inclined to agree. simple a/b, even with a re-x, will not separate ergopeptine byproducts. at the very least, run through a buchner with bentonite using ammonia.

Is there any consensus on what causes the intense discomfort when you eat the seeds raw or even do a cwe? I always thought it was something else in the seeds besides the ergoline compounds, but there's soooo much misinformation and rumor surrounding them. Do you guys notice a dramatic decrease in side effects with np/p extracts or could I get away with doing cold water extracts and just filtering really well? These seeds are always hit or miss, sometimes there gentle and othrr times there's intense discomfort and fear of poisoning ruining the whole trip.

I thought that was attributed to ergopeptinr/peptides.

I've read many people write the extraction of LSA isn't really worth it. I just ate the seeds. It gave me physical side effects, but I took them as a positive part of the experience. "cleansing body and mind"
LSA breaks down in light as well as heat so if you extract it you'll have to be really careful. After you've ground up the seeds you shouldn't really expose the powder to light. For every moment you do some of the LSA will be broken down by light. LSA tea from ground seeds is also a bad idea because of the heat.

I've read* that LSA itself causes nausea so CWE might be of limited help...
If it is no problem for you, smoking mj helps with the nausea. Take just one hit if you want to keep it as clean as possible

*(when I say "I've read" I mean from a non-scientific source/personal account/experience report because if I had "reputable sources" to provide, I would have already provided them!)

I've tried lsa a couple times. HBWR seeds crushed in warm water with some fresh squeezed lemon for flavour. No nausea to report, although no real psychedelic effects either so an hour later I tripled the dose, still nothing, so I had another triple dose. Not much to report (for me anyway). did make me tired though, man, I had one hell of a good nap that day, not long, just rejuvenating. What did interest me was their wide availability and potential to be converted to LSD. at the time it seemed a lot more efficient than any other synth and easier to obtain the precursor too. I never did attempt this though, I concluded that isolating the lsa from seeds in a purity sufficient to undergo esterification would likely be extraneous. This, coupled with the fact that I was only in my infancy as a chemist made the process seem rather daunting and as such I never did attempt this, resolving instead to go with a tried and true method (eventually went with the Garbrecht method from ergotamine tartrate) as well as work on my practical chemistry skills before attempting anything so elaborate.

So, long story short, I don't go much on LSA and have little to nothing to offer this topic of conversation.

there is nothing particularly complicated about these extractions, nor are there any irreversible side-reactions. the epimerization is reversible, and irrelevant for further conversion, the column separation is facile. a commercial 365 nm lamp readily differentiates the epimers, the iso-variant being the less fluorescent.

365nm flashlights are readilly available for just a few bucks even.

Seems easy to me now too, the experience I was describing was at the beginning of my first year at uni. By the time I learned proper lab technique I'd already abandoned this idea, while it is very possible, it's not very practical.

Epimerisation is very relevant if one wishes to further convert to LSD. Given there are 3 inactive isomers and only 1 active, one must use only pure LSA for conversion by esterification and condensation with diethylamine. Yields are poor too. A typical total yield seems to be about 0.5% of d-lysergic acid (+)-diethylamide. Got just over 20% yield using the Garbrecht method from ergotamine tartrate

the epimerization of lsa to iso-lsa is irrelevant, because alkaline hydrolysis converts it all to lysergic acid.
doesn't matter if you start with paspalic acid or ET.

I would only worry about epimerization at the acid hydrate since that gives the most favorable equillibrium 88:12, d:l.

Heya.

Swim tried LSA a week or so ago. He got blue morning glory seeds from a seeds shop in europe. He said the seeds were black but there had been also a few light brown ones. He took 8g which was around 200+ seeds. This amount is ocnsidered to be med-high, though he did not really see much into it. He said he straight chewed them and 30 mins after a bit of stomach irritation starts though nothing significant.... after an hour ( he hadnt eaten for atleast 4 hours before) h started feeling the effects and started walking towards the forest nearby. When he arrived after 15 mins there he realised his sight was blurred. He did not expirience much nausea. He thoughts as if they were blocked or more like he was receiving signals in forms of ideas throughout the whole ''trip''. Which lasted around 5 hours. He smoked pot aswell on the 2nd hour which revitalised him a bit. All in all he said he was not happy from the trip that he considered nothing special , especially when he heard that it was compared with LSD which he had wanted to try for so long but did not since he cannot find proper in his country. He is a bit confused of whether the dose was not big enough or? The next day he did not expirience any signs of tiredness.

Peace out
stitch

Some would argue that LSA is not an active, and only a mere sedative. HBWR seeds contain some differing compounds with LSA, among them: LAH. (or LSH if you prefer).

Perhaps you will find these seeds superior.

MG's def work you do not need HBWR you just need the right dose of fresh and active MG's. At the right dose, the stuff can be extremely powerful. HBWR can also be hit or miss.

It's possible the LSA degraded somehow. I've heard it's sensitive to heat and light. With MG tea, I had mainly a mind trip with LSA where it altered my thought process a lot and had really vivid dreams that night (but I have that anyways, don't know how much or if LSA played into that.)
I agree with hit or miss. One time I made morning glory seed tea and only got the nausea whereas the other time I got the mind trip but no visuals. I didnt feel sedated or lethargic per se but I got muscle tension. I wish I tried closing my eyes, maybe the visuals manifest themselves more with eyes closed? : In any case, HWBR certainly seems more convenient due to the small amount of seeds needed compared to grinding up a bunch tiny MG seeds!

Agreed. Considering the ease of care it takes to grow MG, it shouldn't take long to figure out how potent fresh harvest can be. I've tried both dry weight and freshly harvested MG's in the same dosages and there's just no comparison. What's going on with the activity of these alkaloids? I have no idea! The connection of growth and reward instead of purchasing and consuming packets of seeds is a no-brainer to me.