We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
PREV12
Ayahuasca studies & articles Options
 
tregar
#21 Posted : 5/8/2015 3:29:22 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
As much as I love Terrence Mckenna, and I have all his books, he did a lot to popularize Ayahuasca as "just an maoi" that activates DMT, he incorrectly assumed that DMT was the main active component of Ayahuasca...Ayahuasca has always been referred to as the Caapi vine by all indigenous cultures that use it. Dennis Mckenna on the other hand has written extensively on "real Ayahuasca", see his latest book "The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss" for example.

Unlike Schultes, who had speculated that DMT was responsible for much of the activity of the brew, McKenna made the DMT responsible for all of it. Although he conceded that the beta-carbolines in the vine “can be hallucinogenic at close to toxic doses", McKenna popularized the idea that Banisteriopsis caapi had no other role in an Ayahuasca brew except to make the DMT orally active. “They are important for visionary shamanism because they can inhibit enzyme systems in the body that would otherwise depotentiate hallucinogens of the DMT type” (McKenna 1992:33). “The action of the Banisteriopsis, as far as the visions are concerned, is to prevent the Psychotria from being neutralized by gastric enzymes”

In the western world, Ayahuasca acquired a new definition: It was now, by definition, the combination of Banisteriopsis caapi and a DMT-containing plant. Ayahuasca became, by definition, “orally active DMT.” The first anthropologist to adopt the new definition seems to have been Luis Eduardo Luna in 1984. Luna spent time with Terence McKenna, absorbing his perspective, before beginning his fieldwork. Since then, anthropologists have increasingly adopted this definition and filtered their observations through it.

The preeminence of the Ayahuasca vine in the indigenous Amazonian world became the elephant in the living room of Ayahuasca studies, with a tacit agreement to pretend it doesn’t exist.

Refer to this paper and others by Dr Nichols on the importance of targeting 5-ht1a receptors to entheogenic action:

"Serotonin Receptor Signaling and Hallucinogen Action" (pp:73-79)
Charles D.Nichols,Ph.D.,Elaine Sanders-Bush,Ph.D.

As 5-ht1a receptors make up over 80% of brain 5-ht according to Dr. Nichols, their importance cannot be understated.

Below is shown binding affinities of LSD for various receptors. The lower the dissociation constant (Ki), the more strongly LSD binds to that receptor (i.e. with higher affinity). The horizontal line represents an approximate value for human plasma concentrations of LSD, and hence, receptor affinities that are above the line are unlikely to be involved in LSD's effect. Data averaged from data from the Ki Database.

As can be seen from the chart, 5-ht1a receptor agonism (which is anti-serotonin, or serotonin-blocking) plays a significant role in LSD's effects. The super-strong ANTI-SEROTONIN effects of LSD have been well-documented for decades in numerous papers. This same agonism exists with mescaline and oral Ayahuasca to a large degree, to a moderate degree with psilocin as well, but plays no role in smoked dmt.
tregar attached the following image(s):
LSDaffinities.GIF (13kb) downloaded 352 time(s).
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 

Explore our global analysis service for precise testing of your extracts and other substances.
 
Bancopuma
#22 Posted : 5/8/2015 4:18:09 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 2147
Joined: 09-May-2009
Last visit: 28-Oct-2024
Location: the shire, England
A scientific literature overview published by ICEERS that may be of interest, attached.

http://reset.me/story/do...-conducted-on-ayahuasca/

 
dreamer042
#23 Posted : 5/8/2015 5:01:59 PM

Dreamoar

Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless

Posts: 4711
Joined: 10-Sep-2009
Last visit: 21-Nov-2024
Location: Rocky mountain high
I fully agree that caapi is not "just an maoi" and to view it as such is to do it a disservice. I am familiar with the visionary spaces elicited by caapi/rue/harmalas, however I don't see caapi as somehow fundamentally different, the same visionary spaces can be obtained from harmalas alone without any THH present (based upon TLC analysis), or rue which may or may not have THH present in more or less quantity than caapi.

I am intimately familiar with the visionary spaces of high does mescaline and LSD and I can vibe with the descriptions of the earth based dream scenes on mescaline and harmalas. LSD tends to give me more celestial type visions rather than earth based visions at high doses. Psilocybin for me is pretty well indistinguishable from smoked DMT with the same kind of generalized fractal kaleidoscope effect, however psilocybin does tend to present with more coherent thematic imagery.

Smoked DMT has shown me all of the above and more: earth scenes, heavenly realms, aliens/ufo's/star systems, temples, deities and imagery from every culture on earth, coherent stories, and impossible outlandish things. It's incredibly variable and unpredictable, unlike these other compounds which generally seem more reliable and repeatable in the style of visionary space they elicit.

I'm curious to know more about your personal experiences. Have you smoked DMT before? Tried snuffed or sublingal DMT? What do high dose LSD and mescaline do you for you? Do you find fundamental differences between psilocybin, ayahausca, and DMT? because I find their effects remarkably similar. Have you worked with rue or extracted harmalas alone? Do you find them fundamentally different than caapi? How about admixture plants, have you worked with mimosa/chaliponga/acacia? Have you tried low dose harmalas with high dose DMT?

I think your theory is fascinating and there is certainly something to the effects of 5ht1 receptor agonism. My personal experience just doesn't fully match up to the hypothesis. THH is not really active on it's own, even at high doses and pure 5ht1 receptor agonists have interesting anxiolytic and antidepressant effects but are not visionary in and of themselves. I don't mean to imply that you were suggesting that 5ht1 receptors are solely responsible for these experiences, but to demonstrate that it seems to be a combinatory effect. Without harmine THH is of little use, without agonism of the other 5ht receptors 5ht1 agonism isn't nearly as profound.

Do you by chance happen to know anything about the binding profile of bufotenine? Clearly there is some serious 5ht3 receptor agonism as demonstrated by the intense nausea and bodyload, but it's unique in it's effect in that it's highly visual/visionary but not really mentally warping. Perhaps it's pharmacology could help expand the hypothesis?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
tregar
#24 Posted : 5/8/2015 11:03:30 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
Thanks Bancopuma for the link to document that contains virtually every study of Ayahuasca, really enjoyed reading.Smile

dreamer042 said:
Quote:
Smoked DMT has shown me all of the above and more: earth scenes, heavenly realms, aliens/ufo's/star systems, temples, deities and imagery from every culture on earth, coherent stories, and impossible outlandish things. It's incredibly variable and unpredictable, unlike these other compounds which generally seem more reliable and repeatable in the style of visionary space they elicit.
Very interesting, glad to hear that this is possible with just dmt alone, I stand corrected. Smile Thank you for sharing dreamer042. My mind is always open. I recall even from Strassman's dmt, the spirit molecule, of reports containing many references to human culture. I would love to hear more.

10 to 15grams of good Hawaiian leaf always works just fine imho, been burned in the past countless times with Peruvian leaf, but Hawaiian is always super potent. Taken with a high dose of caapi is heavenly & deeply rewarding experience. 10 grams of Hawaiian leaf in my estimation contains about 25mg of dmt, 15g of leaf about 35mg of dmt. 15g of leaf is PLENTY with a high dose of caapi. Often prefer just 10g of leaf it's so strong.

Just throw the leaf whole into a small pyrex dish with 16oz of water, medium boil (just a single 1/2 hour medium long boil is just fine! no need to repeat 2 or 3 times) for 1/2 hour with 1 gram of pure citric acid powder (order online), then filter thru 5 coffee filters twice, very little to zero nausea so long as you filter out all of the irritating tannins to the gastrointestinal tract with the filters. The psychotria brew will even look a bit off clear (very light clear faint yellowish) at this point, very see thru, certainly not dark at all.

To get rid of 100% of the tannins, just leave the brew in the fridge in a tall glass for 5 days, over that time any of the remaining tannis would have fallen out and collect at the bottom of the glass, just decant off the brew from the bottom, only using the top part above the very slight amount of sludge if there is any. Zero (gastro) nausea is possible, I prefer this fridge decantation method (if I have the time) after the filtering for zero gastrointestinal causing nausea my self. I learned it from Sync and Meteor (another place), it really does work as stated.

10 to 15g of Hawaiian psychotria with a Caapi brew containing about a rough estimate equivalent of around 400mg of actives? is a Very beautiful and deeply moving experience that last for several hours with an afterglow all day & night and into the next day.

With open eyes for the first few hours, the world looks insanely beautiful and immensely sacred Thumbs up , with closed eyes and a shade over, a whole nother realm of healing, teaching & visions...all the closed eye visions being bright & colorful, telepathic & transcendent in nature.Thumbs up Perfect way to stay entheogenic every few weeks very cheaply for the rest of your life. It's cured me of life-long depression & drug addictions, and that speaks volumes to me, but we learn of this curing countless times in literature.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
jamie
#25 Posted : 5/9/2015 6:56:19 AM

DMT-Nexus member

Salvia divinorum expert | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growingSenior Member | Skills: Plant growing, Ayahuasca brewing, Mushroom growing

Posts: 12340
Joined: 12-Nov-2008
Last visit: 02-Apr-2023
Location: pacific
[b]"Do you have any favorite Ayahuasca article or book links you would like to share? Please share if you like, love to read. I don't post much, but over the last many months have been reading some interesting studies and books which many of you probably already know about and quote elsewhere. I know that endlessness has in the past discussed some of the studies about acidified brews and THH analysis.

From Article 2 linked to below by Gale Highpine entitled "Unraveling the Mystery of the Origin of Ayahuasca" with which I agree in my own experiences. See specifically the sections entitled "The vine and the leaf" & "listening to the vine".

Quote:
From section "the vine and the leaf":

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book.8 The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light.

Ayahuasca vine is not visionary in the same way as DMT. Visions from vine-only brews are shadowy, monochromatic, like silhouettes, or curling smoke, or clouds moving across the night sky. It is because their visions are usually monochromatic that vines are classified by the color of vision they produce: white, black, blue, red (in my experience, dark maroon). Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine.9 Vine visions can be hard to see; in fact, the “visions” may not be visual at all, but auditory or somatic or intuitive. But the vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” (Calavia Saez 2011:135). The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority” (Weiskopf 2005:104)."


Gayle Highpine has never smoked DMT. I have gotten into this with her enough times and while I have respect for her experience with ayahuasca, she has some opinions on both DMT and mushrooms that I find dismissive, unrealistic and lacking personal experience.

Mushrooms are more visionary for me and produce an even stronger afterglow than ayahuasca, and they don't contain any vine.

Vine is, IMO, not as useful in healing as the tryptamines. I wonder how much of all of this is just an appeal to culture. Harmalas are psychedelic, but I personally would not turn to them in place of the tryptamines for the real deep healings.

Long live the unwoke.
 
Jees
#26 Posted : 5/9/2015 10:46:10 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 4031
Joined: 28-Jun-2012
Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
jamie wrote:
...Gayle Highpine has never smoked DMT. I have gotten into this with her enough times and while I have respect for her experience with ayahuasca, she has some opinions on both DMT and mushrooms that I find dismissive, unrealistic and lacking personal experience...
This kind of aya aficionados will hardly change their view over some try-out, this possibly works counter productive. It needs at least some practical dedication, in proper liberal pursuance, to get a fair idea.

jamie wrote:
...I wonder how much of all of this is just an appeal to culture...
yes that, or the hypothesis that there is a best fitting medicine for a person makes it laborious to try framing/debating it onto someone else.
 
tregar
#27 Posted : 5/12/2015 11:04:51 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
I'm taking into account the experiences of dreamer420 & many others who have had deeply meaningful experiences with smoked dmt, and agree that human culture & other dimensions can all be seen & experienced with it. With my background (no smoked dmt), I can only subjectively agree with what 69ron wrote back in 2008 about Ayahuasca & harmine, etc. (lots of experience) but have no experience whatsoever with smoked dmt for the record, so have no input on the matter other than displaying the 5-ht chart for comparisons of strength levels at the various receptor sites as compared w/other entheogens.

69ron:
Quote:
Ayahuasca is Banisteriopsis caapi. It contains mostly harmine. B. caapi itself contains no DMT and can be used as is to produce visionary states that are like mental day dreams which lack true visual content. Often admixtures are used to increase the visual content of the ayahuasca dreams. Most admixture plants contain DMT.

Harmine used alone, can produce a mild dreamy psychedelic experience in which daydreams or lucid dreams can be experienced if the user chooses to do so. These dreams from harmine alone are vague and lack visual content, but usually have story lines and can be quite complex just like a real dream. Harmine allows one to go in and out of dream consciousness at will. It takes some practice to learn how to enter a lucid dream with harmine alone. Harmine won’t make you enter a lucid dream. You have to do it yourself by allowing your mind to drift off into a lucid dream.

DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphine colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.

When combined, as in ayahuasca, the harmine brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of harmine. Harmine is the boss here in this combination if used in ayahuasca proportions where harmine is not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmine induced dreams.

Using harmine in very low doses, just as an MAOI, is not the same as using properly made ayahuasca. If harmine is used in low doses just for it’s MAOI effects, the trip lacks dream content and is just a bunch of bazaar DMT visual effects. This is not ayahuasca-like, it’s just orally activated DMT. That’s not the same. Its true that some ayahuasca is prepared this way, but such ayahuasca is considered inferior by most natives. With ayahuasca, the DMT is just an additive, not the main course. This is why ayahausca made with only caapi is still called ayahuasca and considered nearly as powerful as ayahuasca made with additive plants containing DMT.

This is something a lot of people don’t get. Ayahuasca is not simple orally activated DMT. It is the dream consciousness effects of harmine that are at play in ayahuasca. In order to experience lucid dreams from harmine without DMT, you need to practice a lot. But once you know how to do it, you don’t need DMT added to it anymore, unless you want the extra visual depth that DMT adds to the dreams.

So, “Dmt Or Ayahuasca?”, well that question is a personal question. Some people prefer DMT-less ayahuasca. Some people prefer just orally activated DMT. Some people prefer ayahuasca with a side order of DMT. Some people prefer the truly bazaar effects of smoked DMT alone.

My personal opinion is that DMT alone is FUN and can be quite frightening. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I like roller coasters. But don’t expect a deep meaningful life changing experience from it. Its pure visual FUN and nothing more. If I want a more meaningful experience I’d use an oral ayahuasca extract, or a smoked Yopo extract (not as effective as ayahuasca because Yopo is low on harmala-like alkaloids).

Authentic ayahuasca, high in harmine, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.

and from Graham Hancock:
Quote:
My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

When Dennis Mckenna described his life-altering Ayahuasca experience where he was turned into a water droplet and experienced all the stages of photosynthesis, he said the coming up portion of the session was like a fast moving elevator going "up" in which you can't get off, I concur, the initial 30 minute comeup period (which is felt 40 minutes after taking) can feel as if all your faculties and senses are being invaded, however, after this initial stage, the following 3 hours are very blissful with incredible infinite amounts of beauty seen with open eyes the entire duration, and with closed eyes a whole nother world of teaching visions. It's not like the up and down emotional rollercoaster of shrooms, but more imho like higher dose cactus or hoffman's miracle after the ride up, very controllable, euphoric, and blissful after the initial invasion of senses.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#28 Posted : 5/15/2015 9:16:24 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
Would like to expand on the theory of 5-ht1a logical serotonin shutdown, the 80% of brain 5-ht that performs the majority of filtering "Mind at Large" (a term coined by Aldous Huxley) which allows us to operate in the logical functional day to day normal work world. The Plant kingdom entheogens mentioned earlier in this thread (see 5-ht chart) all target this very large subsystem in the brain, blocking serotonin signals and shutting down this perhaps now deeply flawed logical filtering process, allowing direct access to spiritual, creative, empathetic, artistic realms:

The book "Return to the Brain of Eden" eloquently & theoretically looks into mao diets & the plant kingdom (fruit & fruit hormones & beyond) arriving at a right brain/left brain theory of what has happened to us over the past 200,000 years.

Authors Tony Wright and Graham Gynn, "Return to the Brain of Eden" (2015):

The Biological Origins of the Fall From Grace:
Quote:
‘Release the genius inside you – Shut down your brain’ announced the cover of the New Scientist in April 2004.

For the last three years scientists at the Centre for the Mind have been attempting to find out if a higher level of mental functioning may be available to all of us. Professor Allan Snyder has proposed that such functions are latent in everyone and are suppressed by the activity of the ‘evolutionary advanced’ rational side of the brain. By ‘switching off’ the left side of the brain, they hoped to turn ‘normal’ people into ‘geniuses’.

Initially treated with scepticism, recent results have caused shock waves in the scientific community. It appears that a whole new layer of function lies dormant in all of us. Have they found the key to our future evolution or have they unknowingly unlocked an ancient mystery that has its origins in prehistory?

A new theory of human evolution, proposed by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn in ‘Left in the Dark’, convincingly argues that the human brain owes part of its extraordinary development to the biochemistry of a specialist fruit diet. The hormone-related chemicals in tropical fruit initiated an internal hormone mechanism that increasingly promoted brain growth and elevated neural activity. When humans were forced from their tropical forest ‘Garden of Eden’ some two hundred thousand years ago, this link with biochemically rich fruit was lost.

The internal hormone mechanism that fuelled brain expansion stalled, and the process went into reverse. This caused a breakdown in part of the brain; some functions were lost and our sense of self changed for the worse – a golden age descended in stages to our present materialist, fear-based age of plastic and Prozac. These neurological effects are now being revealed and verified by today’s cutting edge science.

Professor Allan Snyder has suggested that the rational/conceptual mind functions by editing out much of the raw data (reality) that we gather via all our senses. He believes that many processes and skills are lost in this screening. The latest results from the Centre for the Mind do indeed show that if the rational brain areas are ‘shut down’ enhanced artistic and mathematical ability and improved memory emerge. These skills mirror those of autistic savants and also occur in some patients in which the left hemisphere has been damaged. Snyder thinks the human brain has ‘traded in’ these skills for the benefits of the logical reasoning mind. However his research may be beginning to uncover a much larger story. A number of his subjects have reported perceptual changes too – feelings of euphoria and bliss more normally associated with ‘peak experiences’ and meditation.

If the rational mind suppresses a ‘second self’ that, not only has a number of enhanced skills but also a sense of self that is vibrant, peaceful and connected, could there be something wrong with it? Could it be that all our stressful, niggling mental activity really does hide a place of energetic calm and well-being? It can be no coincidence that religious practices from all traditions and ages have been designed to pacify or negate the activities of the logical mind to allow a different sense of consciousness to come through.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#29 Posted : 5/15/2015 9:52:45 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
James Oroc's book was one of the best books I had read many years ago, as what he experienced had incorporated super-strength 5ht1a agonism properites, it gets you thinking. Here is excerpt from book you can find on the web:

James Oroc's book:
Quote:
5-MeO-DMT was the compound responsible for both my own spiritual awakening, my renewed interest in psychedelics, and for my subsequent sustained investigation into the endogenous entheogens. In an effort to keep track of my thoughts in the period after my original transpersonal mystical experience on 5-MeO-DMT in 2003, and with little thought or hope of publication, I wrote the original version(s) of Tryptamine Palace for the population of Burning Man (where I knew it would find an interested audience) and gifted it as a book on the ‘playa’ in 2006 and 2007 to my fellow ‘Burners’. (As far as I know this was the first book written for and gifted at Burning Man.) Encouraged by the reception at Burning Man, I was preparing the book for self-publication (with the help of EROWID’sJon Hanna) when I sent 2 copies of the original BM versions to 2 different publishers just so I could get used to getting rejected. To my great surprise the respected meta-physical publisher Inner Traditions actually accepted Tryptamine Palace for publication, and after considerable further effort (and infinite patience from my suffering editors) was published world-wide in 2009. Tryptamine Palace is the first major book written specifically about 5-MeO-DMT and contains numerous detailed descriptions of 5-MeO-DMT’s unique brand of (what Alex Grey calls) ‘experimental mysticism’.

Tryptamine Palace by James OrocBy attempting to describe the impossibly intense and paradoxically fleeting “5-MeO-DMT experience,” (Hereafter abbreviated at points within this book as “5MDE.”) I am now moving onto purely subjective ground. I must stress that the chronology that I provide here is only my personal interpretation of my experiences on 5-MeO-DMT, gleaned from my own experimentation. And so while the following information is taken from “the front lines,” so to speak, it cannot be overstated that every individual’s experience is unique. And so what happens to me when I smoke 5-MeO-DMT will not necessarily happen to you, if you choose to smoke it.

But for myself, after 5 years of fairly regular usage of 5-MeO-DMT in both its natural and (lab-produced) synthetic forms, I have come to believe that certain consistent patterns have emerged:

1. I fully inhale the smoke, generally holding on until my vision of the physical surroundings has begun to break into fractals, and then I exhale. Virtually immediately upon exhalation, my vision experiences a field of light-fractals. My mind then dissolves into white light, and the vision of my eyes is no longer relevant (or at least no longer recognizes my physical environment). This white light—which blazes with the focused intensity of a laser and which is both whiter-than-white, yet also sparkling with brilliant color—may be the crux of the experience. The first time I smoked 5-MeO-DMT, the only instruction I was given by the friend who provided it to me was to stay in this light for as long as possible.

2. At this point a variety of inner phenomena can appear. Some people report seeing protector spirits (animals or angels), while others describe communicating directly with the light. In some of my early journeys, I walked across plains of stars and talked with a Goddess who appeared in a blend of changing forms, some familiar, some archetypical, and I remember she laughed and treated me like a child. Whoever is in charge in that dimension, they know to keep it simple when we visit there; we are children compared to them, and they teach us things in the slow methodical way any good teacher does, one simple lesson at a time.

The following quotation is from Stanislav Grof’s extensive road map of the transpersonal experience, The Cosmic Game:

“Immediately following the experience of total annihilation—‘hitting cosmic bottom’—we are overwhelmed by visions of light that has a supernatural radiance and beauty and is usually perceived as sacred. This divine epiphany can be associated with displays of beautiful rainbows, diaphanous peacock designs, and visions of celestial realms with angelic beings or deities appearing in light. This is also the time when we can experience a profound encounter with the archetypal figure of the Great Mother Goddess or one of her many culture-bound forms.”

Once, early on in my experimentations, when I was hyper-excited by some of the strange and wonderful ideas I had encountered in Terence McKenna’s wild book The Archaic Revival, I meditated with serious resolve on the questions, “What are you? Can you let me know?” before I made my journey to that other dimension. After reading McKenna’s book I was intoxicated with the ideas of gods, aliens, and other-dimensional beings and I was certain that this was the correct way of attempting to communicate with them: surely they would respect my intent. Then, as soon as I exhaled, the answer from the other side blasted me like a million volts of pure electricity threatening to fry me to my core:

Love. That is all you need to know. I am Love.

This answer is one of the oldest known to man, and the core of many great religions; but it was not one that I had expected, nor one that I had been looking for. In fact, I would probably have never had considered it as an option at all. But as an answer to a child who is making his first frightful steps into the unknown, it could not be paralleled for its effect. “Do not fear,” this other dimension declares, “There is an ocean of love over here.”

After that experience, I stopped asking questions.

3. In this tunnel of light I relive all the experiences in my life in an instant. Your whole life flashes before you like the wave of a hand – the passage of time is like a game here. All the people I have known and loved surround me as I become a part of them and they become a part of me as I expand out of my form towards realization.

Everybody seems very happy and excited at this point, with a keen sense of humor attached to the fact that I/we have had the great secret-and-answer contained within us all along. The multitude of faces around me keep laughing and silently shouting at me, “You knew it all along! We knew it all along! It’s all right! We all knew it all the time! You exist! This is real! This is it! Now just relax! And just … Be.”

4. Everything that has come before in my life seems to have led to this point, to this moment. There is no sense of time. I am somehow splitting, growing, spreading outwards, and becoming a part of everything. I am permutating and connecting with the entire universe from within my very being. As I expand out and integrate into the happy multitudes and the universe beyond them, then my ego/identity begins to dissolve as the realization dawns that I am returning to the Source from where everything came. Looking around, in a dimension without time or space, I recognize everything and everyone as One, as the embodiment of all those beings who I have managed to love the most unconditionally. There is a definite feeling, that to go past this point, I have to relax, believe, and somehow, let go.

Coil - Methoxy-N, N-Dimethyl (5-MeO-DMT)At this point I have also heard a sound —and this is another experience commonly reported by tryptamine smokers—which grows to become the most incredible, all-encompassing note. It is pure other-worldly angel music, which I can only describe with the word Aum (or Om). The primordial noise. The logos. The original sound of creation. A transcendental note that I effortlessly dissolve into.

Dissolution into an omniscient state of Oneness. A place where there is no difference between G/d, the physical universe, or me. We have ceased to exist as separate entities and now resonate as One. Resonating with the possession of a knowledge that radiates with the surest sense of Love—a love that is in everything, and is everything, and is so much more. A conscious Love more intelligent than anything we have ever known. A Love so great that it defies the need for a physical form, and yet paradoxically realizes itself in us, and in all of creation. Aum. I become that Love and I know that everything is One, everything is;

G/d

An infinite pulsating field of intelligent energy that all physical forms manifest from, and into which one day everything shall return: an all-encompassing brilliant bejeweled light of Love. The Godhead, the Supreme Mystery, the Conscious Infinity, the Pure Light, Brahman, Yahweh, whatever you wish to call it—it is the Unnamable Name, and yet paradoxically it is also the Creation Principle—and yet I recognize It. I know that It is real, that I am a part of It, and that in this moment I am able to return to It, like the Sufi ‘moth to the flame’.

Resonating as one with my G/d and now having ceased to exist other than as a part of that divinity, all I have to do is breathe to feel the waves of omniscient energy radiate in and out of my ocean of bliss. My friends, my lovers, my life, my species, my world, —we are all One and we are all part of G/d. Atman (individual consciousness) and Brahman (universal consciousness) as One. There is no way to differentiate between anything: I am lost in waves of an awestruck ecstasy that cannot be described, an ego-less bliss. Rudolf Otto’s mysterium tremendum et fascinans is revealed within the singular realization of the true nature of my G/d: that G/d paradoxically resides both without and within.

Physically, I believe this is when I go into the quietest part of my journey—I’m generally peacefully lying down and saying nothing. I am only in this indescribable cosmic resonance for a few short minutes, ten or fifteen at the most, but it makes no difference to me, since I no longer have any concept of time, and its passage could just as easily be considered infinite. This is the period of an intense singularity for some: the white-out (as it is sometimes called), a total dissolution. It is my belief that my consciousness exists during this state in resonance with a realm that is actually beyond ordinary human comprehension. Freed of the matter of my body, my consciousness is able to function in a manner that it can’t understand, or barely even remember, once it has returned to the limitations of its corporeal form.

I believe that what I have been experiencing is the universal state of consciousness before the knowledge of ego and self, a state of undifferentiated ‘Cosmic Consciousness’ that historically William James has described as ‘Absolute Consciousness’, that Aldous Huxley called “Mind (with a capital M)”, and what is now commonly known amongst the entheogenic community as “God Consciousness.” Me, I just call it G/d for short. Which is a very clinical way of describing what has historically proven to be the most important and awe-inspiring force upon the development of humankind: our ability to achieve some kind of mystical resonance with this G/d; the subsequent realization that the source of this G/d lies within; and the energy and inspiration that this realization has subsequently released into our human society.

Beyond Omega by Denis Konstantin5. “I” have now ceased to exist; there is no knowledge or recognition of “myself”. And yet my consciousness remains, clearly still thinking and experiencing, while seemingly now knowing everything, all knowledge and information within my grasp

Suddenly (probably as the 5-MeO-DMT first starts to wear off) there is the taste of fear: This is all too much. At the apparent pinnacle of the experience, when time has ceased to exist and I have dissolved into this G/d consciousness and lost all sense of my own identity, then I find myself abruptly searching around wildly in this out-of-body dimension, surrounded by layers of information and understanding, struggling to remember how this has all been possible. I exist as pure formless consciousness without limitations - until “I” consciously realize this anomaly. Asking myself; “How did this happen? How have I come so far?” And then finally the killer. “Who am I?”

“I” begins to think: “I must have an identity? How long has this been going on? What is going on here? How is this possible? I must exist! Something really weird is happening here…” From the moment that I recognize that the experience can be recognized, instead of simply being in the experience—then my ego-based identity begins to assert itself, and suddenly it is way, way, too much. I struggle to remember a beginning, a start to “my” own existence – and with this search comes the terror, followed by an abrupt departure from this indescribable state of grace.

6. “You have smoked 5-MeO-DMT,” I usually hear a voice say. And then the remembering pours back in a tellurian wave as my being inexorably flows from a dimension without matter or time back into this physical one. My vision suddenly focuses – I can see bizarrely for a moment between the two worlds, seemingly vibrating in both of them at once - before I am suddenly dropped disorientated back into an awe-struck heap on the floor.

The time between remembering that I exist and then reentering my body is terrifyingly quick and very disorientating, and I think that this specific period is often what people remember from their own experiences. This is especially the case on the first time, and/or if they have smoked too much (which can be easy to do). There is a razor-fine line between smoking enough 5-MeO-DMT to fully experience its out-of-body wonders, and smoking too much, which results in the participant remembering little or nothing of the experience: an often bizarrely terrifying ‘white hole’.

And to further complicate the issue, every person will have his or her own ideal dosage, which takes some experimentation to determine. (This will require owning a gem scale capable of measuring within plus/minus 2 mg to do so accurately.) If you are one of the rare breeds who have the desire to smoke 5-MeO-DMT regularly, then I recommend that you consistently reduce your dosage until you find the minimum required for release, as this is where you will have the best chance of remembering the largest amount of the experience. I believe that too much happens in too short of a time to really have a chance of remembering it all, but some people do emerge with remarkably coherent accounts of their experiences.

7. Now I am fully back in this reality and over-awed by the sheer POWER that I have just experienced, the remnants of which still pulsate through my trembling body. For the following ten or fifteen minutes I am technically still feeling the effects of the 5-MeO-DMT, but my descent back to ground zero is quick. I am usually fairly ecstatic during this period, my eyes filled with wildfire, and I can laugh great whooping belly laughs, deeper than I have ever laughed before. It’s a cosmic laughter at this on-going humor we call life and the unbelievable joke that I have been let in on. Although these days I prefer to smoke 5-MeO-DMT alone, this period is a good time for witnesses to ask what I have seen and experienced. I will respond with great authority on a variety of subjects—as if channeling from some higher force—only to have no memory of my statements thirty to sixty minutes later. The overwhelming sensation that accompanies this phase, even now after years, is that I still have no clue of the depth and breadth of the power of the substance I am so blindly imbibing, and that I should strive to treat the 5MDE with sacred respect.
Forty-five minutes to an hour later, I am completely “straight” (and usually looking for ice cream). All chemical traces of the tryptamine have disappeared from my brain and I am physically free of its influence. Except now, having experienced a full out-of-body mystical experience, my world and my paradigm can never be the same again.

5-Meo-DMT and James Oroc's first experienceAt this point let me recap my interpretation of the series of events that generally occur when I smoke 5-MeO-DMT:

1. Dissolution into fractals of light upon exhalation of the 5-MeO-DMT.

2. Transportation via rapid acceleration into the coherent white light.

3. The subsequent recognition of the unity of All, and that Love is the principle that organizes the universe.

4. Complete dissolution from ego/identity and any concept of time, as I dissolve into resonance with the One; with G/d. (William James “Absolute consciousness”).

5. Fear from disorientation caused by transitioning back into a restricted consciousness, caused by the return of “my” ego.

6. An abrupt repossession of my physical body as the last effects of the 5-MeO-DMT fade away.

7. A period of fading resonance between physical consciousness (consciousness with a small letter “c”) and G/d consciousness (Mind with a capital “M”), as I return completely my normal “baseline” state.

It is important to state once again that within the rudimentary framework that I have provided there is the possibility of an infinite variety of experiences for any given individual. The scenario I have described here is purely from my own voyages and the experience is completely open to other interpretations. It is possible that the order in which I have catalogued these events occurring is completely incorrect, since no linear passage of time is evident within the experience. Rather, it is more like being “hard-wired” into another dimension, where you are somehow able to experience everything simultaneously while being channeled towards the “Core.”

~ James Oroc, Tryptamine Palace: 5-MeO-DMT and the Sonoran Desert Toad. (2009).
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#30 Posted : 5/16/2015 2:16:48 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
Looking at the study (Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome, 2010) and reviewing the entire plethora of entheogens (nature made) & (man-made), 5-meo-dmt appears to be the only one with a maximum 4.00 strength level at the 5-ht1a receptors (over 80% of brain 5-ht), with cactus, hoffman's miracle, Ayahuasca (due to it's synergy of harmala components) all coming in a very close second, at 3.77 and similar levels. This shutting down of the brain's 5-ht filtering system (when targetting 5-ht1a in the brain) may in theory allow access to "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley coined in his classic book "The Doors of Perception" decades ago.

James Oroc's accounts of his 5 years of experiences with the above mentioned compound are bountiful with spiritual epiphanies and manifestations, a fascinating read that never gets boring no matter how many times you reread his writing. If you review the entire 2010 Receptorome project paper from Thomas S. Ray...notice how all of the man-made entheogens lack virtually any amount of strength at the 5-ht1a targets in the brain, all falling short of the amazing nature made entheogens, which appear to be very specific keys created by a much higher power imho that unlock the doors of perception.

From a reviewer (with whom I agree):
Quote:
Mightily clever Oroc will reveal to our spiritually broken lives what the messiahs and the prophets throughout history have all failed to convey. Oroc tackles questions such as; is there a God? Yes there is! Do we survive our bodily death? We sure do! etc. This is what we've all been waiting for and so we must thank G/d for James Oroc, because he's uncovered the truth and lifted the veil off her rusty hinges.

What is conveyed in our world, Oroc points out, is only illusion for the production-line people. Oroc invites us awakened ones to all soar free from this world. He's uncovered the secret you see, and, in so doing, he's only managed to untangle the world knot of existence. roc is also good at knocking holes in our consumer culture and pointing out the poverty of our present economic situation.

You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
RhythmSpring
#31 Posted : 5/16/2015 4:37:30 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 1045
Joined: 12-Mar-2010
Last visit: 11-Jun-2024
Location: Urf
Ayahuasca alters structural parameters of the rat aorta

Ayahuasca causes changes in the structure of the heart?

Quote:
Ayahuasca caused flattening and stretching of vascular smooth muscle cells and changes in the arrangement and distribution of collagen and elastic fibers. Chronic treatment with the higher dose significantly increased media thickness and the ratio of media thickness to lumen diameter.


This sounds good...
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
tregar
#32 Posted : 5/17/2015 1:33:26 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
Thanks RhythmSpring for the study on the rat aorta, will have to review this one.

There are not many books specifically on 5-meo-dmt, but the two below are the classics:

Oroc, James "Tryptamine Palace: 5-MeO-DMT and the Sonoran Desert Toad" (2009)

Ball, Martin "The Entheogenic Evolution" [2008] pg 128-147: "5-meo-dmt & Awakening the Divine Within"

How to smoke the toad:

http://www.dmtsite.com/5...dmt/experience/toad.html
hxxp://www.dmtsite.com/5-meo-dmt/experience/toad.html

A reviewer had once said:
Quote:
He (Oroc) quickly dismisses its far less potent cousin, n-n DMT as a poor substitute for the real thing, placing him in a very difficult to understand and practically peerless position. While this may be true, not once does he mention any curiosity to try the two IN COMBINATION with each other as in Yopo, and a few other traditional mixtures.

Interesting, since looking at the 5-ht data from the Receptorome project, the "missing" 5-ht1a strength of dmt is filled in by the maximum 4.00 strength of 5-meo-dmt. Of course, the synergy of caapi ingredients do the same, filling in for the "missing" 5-ht1a of dmt, and as usually seen in the enthegoenic world, a synergy of many different ingredients is usually more potent than just one. It's been a theory of mine that perhaps dmt is too "busy" hitting all the rest of the brain receptors (the other 20%) with super-great strength that perhaps it just may need a "helper" to hit the other 80% of brain 5-ht (5-ht1a), hence the existence of "helpers" in the entheogenic world.

These additional "helpers" may also in theory help to bring up the strength of the other receptors sites, for example, possibly bringing up dmt's 2.58 strength at the 5-ht2a receptor up to something like the 3.54 strength of LSD for example (just add the 0.98 5-ht2a strength of 5-meo-dmt to the 2.58 5-ht2a strength of dmt) and you have a nearly same 3.54 at the receptor that LSD provides. Quite possible that the components in Caapi help boost these same receptor strength levels as well.

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
http://journals.plos.org...371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009019

Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
Quote:
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57

more on 5-MEO-DMT: The Mystic's Molecule (made illegal in Jan 2011)

Stanislav Grof's descriptions of the 5-MeO-DMT experience increasingly report distinct parallels to the classical mystical experience. Of the notable attempts at describing the 5-MeO-DMT experience by these “front-line” investigators, none are more notable than the following account by the eminent transpersonal psychologist Stanislav Grof, taken from his recent autobiography, When the Impossible Happens. (2006).

Grof, Stanislav "When the Impossible Happens: Adventures in Non-Ordinary Reality." (2006):
Quote:
Stan Grof about his LSD experienceGrof’s first experience with LSD (and a strobe light) as a volunteer in 1956 would set his life-course as a researcher – he was considered the world’s leading authority on LSD research until that became impossible due to the changes in the law in the early 1970’s – and his account of that experience is considered one of the classics in psychedelic literature, and the bench-mark by which many future entheogenic experiences would be compared. However, in the following account where the sixty-something year old Grof takes a whopping 25 mg dose of 5-MeO-DMT, Grof states that that his 5-MeO-DMT experience actually exceeded his original LSD experience in effect and intensity. Since few writers in history have the skill or experience in describing the psychedelic experience that Stanislav Grof has, this remarkable description of the 5-MeO-DMT experience is perhaps the most important one we have.

The beginning of the experience was very sudden and dramatic. I was hit by a thunderbolt of immense power that instantly shattered and dissolved my everyday reality. I lost all contact with the surrounding world, which completely disappeared as if by magic. In the past, whenever I had taken a high-dose of psychedelics, I liked to lie down and make myself comfortable. This time, any such concerns were irrelevant because I lost awareness of my body, as well as of the environment. After the session, I was told that after taking a couple of drags, I sat there for several minutes like a sculpture, holding the pipe near my mouth. Cristina and Paul had to take the pipe from my hand and put my body in a reclining position on the couch.

In all my previous sessions, I had always maintained basic orientation. I knew who I was, where I was, and why I was having unusual experiences. This time all this dissolved in a matter of seconds. The awareness of my everyday existence, my name, my whereabouts, and my life disappeared as if by magic. Stan Grof … California … United States … planet Earth … these concepts faintly echoed for a few moments like dreamlike images on the far periphery of my consciousness and then faded away altogether. I tried hard to remember myself of all the existence of the realities I used to know, but they suddenly did not make any sense.

In all my previous psychedelic sessions there always had been some rich specific content. The experiences related to my present lifetime – the story of my childhood, infancy, birth, and embryonal life – or to various themes from the transpersonal domain – my past life experiences, images from human history, archetypal visions of deities or demons, or visits to various mythological domains. This time, none of these dimensions seemed to exist, let alone manifest. My only reality was a mass of radiant swirling energy of immense proportions that seemed to contain all of existence in a condensed and entirely abstract form. I became Consciousness facing the Absolute.

Grof's Most Powerful Experience: It had the brightness of myriad suns, yet it was not the same continuum with any light I knew from everyday life. It seemed to be pure consciousness, intelligence, and creative energy transcending all polarities. It was infinite and finite, divine and demonic, terrifying and ecstatic, creative and destructive - all that and much more. I had no concept, no categories for what I was witnessing. I could not maintain a sense of separate existence in the face of such a force. My ordinary identity was shattered and dissolved; I became one with the Source. In retrospect, I believe I must have experienced the Dharmakaya, the Primary Clear Light, which according to the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Bardo Thödol, appears at the moment of our death. It bore some resemblance to what I encountered in my first LSD session, but it was much more over whelming and completely extinguished any sense of my separate identity.

My encounter with the Absolute lasted approximately 20 minutes of clock time, as measured by external observers. As far as I was concerned, during the entire duration of my experience, time ceased to exist and lost any meaning whatsoever. After what seemed like an eternity, concrete dreamlike images and concepts began to form in my experiential field. I started intuiting fleeting images of a cosmos with galaxies, stars, and planets, Later, I gradually visualized a solar system, and within it the Earth, with large continents.

Stanislav Grof's "When The Impossible Happens"Initially, these images were very distant and unreal, but as the experience continued, I started to feel that these realities might actually have objective existence. Gradually, this crystallized further into the images of the United States and California. The last to emerge was the sense of my everyday identity and the awareness of my present life. At first, the contact with the ordinary reality was extremely faint. I recognized where I was and what the circumstances were. But I was sure that I had taken a dose that was excessive and that I was actually dying. For some time, I believed I was experiencing the bardo, the intermediate state between my present life and my birth in the next incarnation, as it is described in the Tibetan texts.

As I was regaining more solid contact with reality, I reached a point where I knew that I was coming down from a psychedelic session and that I would survive this experiment. I was lying there, still experiencing myself as dying, but now without the sense that my present life was threatened. My dying seemed to be related to scenes from my previous incarnations. I found myself in many dramatic situations happening in different parts of the world throughout the centuries, all of them dangerous and painful. Various groups of muscles in my body were twitching and shaking, as my body was hurting and dying in these different contexts. However, as my karmic history played out in my body, I was in a state of profound bliss, completely detached from all these dramas, which persisted even after all the specific content disappeared from my experience.

Besides Oroc, Groff, Shulgin, Erowid & Serendepity descriptions of 5-meo-dmt, there is Dr. Martin Ball: the author, lecturer and self-admitted ‘entheogenicist’, best known for his popular podcast ‘The Entheogenic Evolution’. (hxxp://entheogenic.podomatic.com//).

While originally clearly skeptical to claims that any compound could induce ‘God Consciousness’ when the Burning Man version of "Tryptamine Palace" was discussed on his podcast in 2008, Martin experienced his own mystical epiphany with 5-MeO-DMT shortly afterwards and now has become a vocal and enthusiastic advocate for the mystical potential present in 5-MeO-DMT in his subsequent books "The Entheogenic Evolution" [2008] and "Being Human" (2012).
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#33 Posted : 5/17/2015 9:38:08 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
In conclusion: Digging deeper, found Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT accidental great find, as expected, sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience:

Oroc:
Quote:
As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings. With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

This experience leads to the interesting question of selectively combining DMT and 5-MeO-DMT for a more visionary and somewhat less overwhelmingly transcendental experience. (Or for the other way around). This combining of the two endogenous entheogens is being tested in changa blends (reportedly at a 90% DMT to 10% 5-MeO-DMT ratio), while many Pharmahuasca urban-shamans are also adding 5-MeO-DMT to their ayahuasca-analogues to transform and deepen that experience. It seems likely to me that the combining of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in various ratios and manners will only become more popular as the exponentially increasing number of psychonauts search for new psychological terrain to explore.

DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are the only two known endogenous entheogens, and thus would appear to be crucial to understanding the relationship between our Humanity and the existence of the Sacred.
You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
tregar
#34 Posted : 7/27/2015 12:04:40 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 562
Joined: 20-Nov-2009
Last visit: 07-Jan-2023
Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
http://journals.plos...l.pone.0009019
hxxp://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009019

Quote:Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min

Quote:
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57

Notice from the chart, the inhibitory effect of stimulation of 5-ht1a that counteracts the stimulating agonism of 5-ht2a and adrenal (a2a etc.) receptors, all the oral entheogens have this important quality including caapi, this balancing effect is severely absent in over 90% of the man-made entheogens in TIHKAL for example, that's why these nature made are very specific keys, and very safe.

Stimulation of 5-ht1a shuts down serotonin signalling to balance the agonism of other receptors. Some speculate that stimulation of 5-ht1a (make up over 80% of brain 5-ht) is also responsible for opening the doors to the Spiritual world, you will find this strong stimulation of 5-ht1a absent on most man-made entheogens if you study all the man-made entheogens in the paper from Ray above.

This is also the reason DMT containing plants are traditonally consumed either with Caapi or with 5-meo-dmt containing snuffs (as the natives do)...with it's helper...so that the overall balance is gained....Caapi and 5-meo-dmt are both extremely strong 5-ht1a agonist (caapi containing harmine & thh & harmaline--all powerful 5-ht1a agonist).

This is why smoking DMT (a new modern method not supported by tradition) are only stimulating 20% of their brain receptors, while the other 80% (5-ht1a) are not being activated, and the reason why smoked DMT will never quite be like oral Ayahuasca or 5-meo-dmt containing snuffs with DMT, completely different experience, the latter two being ancient Shamanic traditions for accessing the Spirit World. Not down-playing smoked-dmt, only showing that these experiences are going to be quite different from each other, as activation of 80% of brain 5-ht1a causes an entirely different type of experience from that of smoked DMT.

5-meo-dmt in combination with dmt can also be seen to boost the overall 5-ht2a agonism to something closer to that of LSD which is also equal to 3.58, also reading Oroc's accounts of his smoked dmt vs dmt + 5-meo-dmt experiences, the completely different types of two experiences is compared, this is given further up in the posting above, he also recounts this in his book. No doubt caapi's ingredients also have boosting powers at various receptors, not just 5-ht1a. By looking at the chart, you start to gain a sense of how these "helpers" all work together, as DMT can only do so much on it's own, stimulating the other 20% of brain receptors with great force, but it can't do the rest without some help.

Three more great books:

Ayahuasca Shamanism in the Amazon and Beyond (Oxford Ritual Studies Series) Paperback – June 18, 2014 by Beatriz Caiuby Labate (Editor), Clancy Cavnar (Editor)

https://books.google.com...and%20Beyond&f=false

hxxps://books.google.com/books?id=EGiVAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Ayahuasca+Shamanism+in+the+Amazon+and+Beyond&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAWoVChMIro3IkqD7xgIVBaWICh0eTApF#v=onepage&q=Ayahuasca%20Shamanism%20in%20the%20Amazon%20and%20Beyond&f=false

Seeking the Sacred with Psychoactive Substances [2 volumes]: Chemical Paths to Spirituality and to God (Psychology, Religion, and Spirituality) Hardcover – October 28, 2014 by J. Harold Ellens (Editor)

https://books.google.com...20substances&f=false

hxxps://books.google.com/books?id=nBvFBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA400&lpg=PA400&dq=seeking+the+sacred+with+psychoactive+substances&source=bl&ots=o9pSdtEdFZ&sig=JVQL9yk3i1MtlbEoPh-VUjhCX4g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAmoVChMIhJas3Z_7xgIVklyICh3SAgnX#v=onepage&q=seeking%20the%20sacred%20with%20psychoactive%20substances&f=false

The Internationalization of Ayahuasca

https://books.google.com...nathan%20ott&f=false

hxxps://books.google.com/books?id=49i8-CzmY_oC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=the+internationalization+of+ayahuasca+jonathan+ott&source=bl&ots=67fPg85eWI&sig=V2rPdsUQ8jhyy3zYsuOo3DlKQ-M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDMQ6AEwA2oVChMI4_72gKf7xgIVFFqICh2k5g5v#v=onepage&q=the%20internationalization%20of%20ayahuasca%20jonathan%20ott&f=false

(The new entry in the above book around page 105 from Legend Jonathan Ott is an especially Good read.)


You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.

If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
 
PREV12
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.129 seconds.