.
.
I don't want to assume that everyone here has read about the great Don Juan Matus, but of those who have, who have seen comparable visions. I just read of an energy vortex on another post. It reminds me of the 'luminous egg' made up of numerous filaments of light that represents our bodies in the 'second attention'.
I personally have seen filaments of light around living organisms but it was not egg like.

Just anything to add to the Casteneda phenomenon.



Perhaps Ayusquero can enlighten us about his apparent waking dream-state...
.
.
.

Hello everyone, fist post. Glad to have found this place

Down to business. The teachings of Don Juan and the writings of Carlos Castaneda while being potentially based on some type of sources outside of his imagination (credible or not) are almost entirely fictional. I read both His first book and one of last ones, The Active Side of Infinity. It was unfortunate that I was only 13 and really naive when I read Teachings of Don Juan but I had an instinct anyhow that sewing an animals eyelids shut is really more of a hoodu/voodu type of activity and not much of the visionary type of scene but please correct me if I am wrong. The other one I read states that all the time all over the place behind the scenes are these black blob like spirit parasites constantly adhering to all sorts of people and things and ruining it all for us oh dang. I'm so glad that I read that much much later when I wasn't all ready to believe anyone and everything.

Later, later, I saw this VHS collection at the library featuring the "magical passes" which are special movements like rubbing under your chin with your finger that where taught down from Don Juan to Carlos and now to us. Only one problem, its a bunch of rubbish.

So if your a true believer you really should start rubbing your jowls in tight little circles until you can see a dozen spirit crows climbing up your pant legs.

I read the first 5 or so Castenada books as they came out--in my early 20's (the first three had already been out for a few years). They made a HUGE impression on me...

Only in the last 7-8 years or so did I come to be convinced that almost all his stuff is made up (probably a significant part of the first book is based on SOME real events). There are a million youtube videos about this for anyone interested. There have also been a couple of books published which, in a detective-like manner, purport to demonstrate logically that the Castaneda books are fiction (for example, records from UCLA that he was actually IN the library--and often reading books about the issues he was writing about--WHILE the books claim he would have been in Mexico). Sure, I understand that what he wrote can be taken as though he were making "astral" journeys to Mexico, etc. I also understand that, based on the principles of the book, that it could seem as if his INTENTION was to make it appear as if he were lying, etc.

But the evidence against him is rather convincing, if you take the time to digest it. Furthermore, did you know that:

1) He became a sort of "exercise guru" for something like Tai Chi (he named it "tensegrity" ), as sort of "warrior exercises?" He had LARGE groups of people who paid to get these instructions--in a manner almost like aerobics classes.

2) And that he USED those classes to find recruits for his "cult" of a group of women...who were his live-in hunnies....and who, it seems, committed suicide after he died? I think two bodies have been found, and the other vanished.


Some of the "evidence" of his fraud and cult-like activities is taken from those who "partially" joined his cult, and then dropped out.

His books are beautiful, no question....and almost certainly complete fiction.

His books are beautiful, no question....and almost certainly complete fiction.


Yes I agree take them for what they are fiction. Still a good read to me. In my opinion his first book was the best and it goes downhill from there the last couple of books pretty chesey. The blue scout resque from 2nd attetion is super CHEASY. and how about the man who had become a woman.

He was and is influental

I think he prolly got the last laugh. he never allowed himself to be photographed

.
.
I was introduced to the books at an early age as well, 16-17 and by my Mom, no less. It was just after I had done acid for the first time and was heading down the path that led me here. As far as whether or not Casteneda participated in these events is not what concerns me. It is that there is more than a grain of truth in those books. They reflect some eastern teachings such as Samsara, that the world is an illusion,etc. They reflect the idea of Shamanism. They reflect that the dream world is just as real as the waking. I believe these 'truths'(ideas, paradigms, etc.) are what made them so popular.

My question remains. Has anyone had an experience that might have a similarity to these events.

Skeptics are more welcome to this discussion. I am not interested in folly.


peace,

J
.
.

I agree--even though his stuff is "fiction," it's still worth reading, and it obviously contains quite of bit of stuff that rings true theoretically--even though I believe he didn't experience what he wrote first hand. I learned a lot from his books, and yes, if I hadn't read them I probably wouldn't be on this forum...

my mum also gave me the Teachings of Don Juan at an early age, 13 or 14 i think.
It did have a big effect on me. Taught me about other ways of seeing, other worldviews etc. I wanted to believe all of it at the time!!

I think it also made me do some things my intuition was telling me not to - when he talked about facing fears. I was actually going against what my intuition was telling me, but I interpreted it as fear and decided to go against it, repeatedly ... not good.

Even if it was half made up he did manage to capture the essence of some truths.

I got really into his books as well, for a while..I find them alltogether sort of cold though. I would NOT want daun juan as my teacher personally..he seems too fearful and stuck in some old hermetic anti social ways...there is not really much medicinal magic in it at all..mostly just sorcery. THe whole aura of the books is just way too negative and pessemistic for me now..I am more into community and happy/positive vibes and magic, building connections..daun juan was a brujo(if he existed at all)

.
.
It has taken me over ten years to learn to silence the inner dialogue. It is most useful. Awareness of ones own thoughts and their origins are powerful tools for growth. Fiction or not.
.
.

I agree!

http://video.google.com/...cid=-8647785195385579634

Here is a link to the movie Enigma of A Sorccer I posted this before a wile back interviews with ex members of his "group" before the eagle seized them ha. he...

..trust me I value his books, I have collected them all, and plan on re-reading them...my path is just a little bit diff..I dont really see Don Juan or carlos as shamans, or healers, at all..I see them as wizards. I respect and look up to them in some ways as that I guess, as I do Crowley, Leary and john lilly etc..

My favorite part of the series was the part where he eats the peyote and plays all night long with the dog and has visions..drinking the water alongside the dog if I remember correctly! The sewing up of the eyes of the lizards to devine though I thought was kinda cruel..I wouldnt have done it cuz I hate seeing anything suffer..The books also really sparked an inpiration to go learn to hunt one day though..

Excellent movie! Captures it all...

.
.
At one point Don Juan mentions to Carlos that he must make his own mushroom/herb mix and wear it around his neck in a pouch for a year but finally says ahhh screwit...smoke some of mine. That is when he guided Carlos to change into a crow and fly. He 'smoked' a 'mushroom/herb' mixture...hmmmmmm.

Now I know psylocin cannot be smoked, so it leads me to believe a natural process is going on with the 'shrooms and herbs. Something to change psylocin slightly to something more akin to spice. The chemists here may logic there way through this one. I don't think I'm off base here. Plants most certainly contain enzymes. How common is demethylase(?) in the plant kingdom? What sort of chain of events could come to make this be.

Always been curious about that one. It could just as well be that Castaneda didn't do enough research and got it wrong about what was in the smoking mixture. It could be an unmentioned herb.

But what if....

Just a thought...I wouldn't mind having some of that!


Peace,

J
.
.

I would bet some of the true parts were his accounts of the woman slaping him around.

yeah crow head was cheasy the giant flying knat was better.

I really like the several time in the series were he comes to after datura and don jaun is holding his head out of the water in a drainage ditch cooling him down. I laughed when i first read it and im laughing as i type now he was a great enertainer who liked the ladys.

Picture youself laying in a filthy drainage ditch full of scum and alge you come to with bad cotton mouth to find a indian who is 5ft tall holding your head out of the water its a scene right out of mops diary.

The thing about biologic enzymes, though, is that they only work in solution--things have to be wet (at least at the scale on which the enzyme is operating). Dry mixtures of plant matter with mushroom matter wouldn't be expected to have the plant enzymes working on the mushroom material--unless the stuff were ground up and made into a solution, preferably with the pH and molarity that the enzyme preferred.

Edit: And, in most cases, you'd have to supply the enzyme with some ATP or GTP to supply the energy needed.

i think heimia was used to sweeten the smoking mix - it has yellow flowers too.
iv read the first 5 books and the art of dreaming - someone gave me the tensegrity one but, hehe, thats not for me - seems like things may have gone downhill at the end.
iv drawn a lot from these books, fiction or not, i dont really care - iv experienced alot of things that parallel certain aspects of these books and i will re read them a good few more times.

lol...

I really enjoyed his first book... if it was total fiction or not, I personally think the general energy that he was projecting was important and helped many people begin their travels and perceive reality in a new light... I dont think he quite got it right however

Enigma of a sorcerer is an excellent doco ... essential viewing for anyone really interested in his tale...

I enjoyed the books of Castaneda, trying to do some of the "exercises" while tripping and dreaming.
But I learned how to be conscious in my dreams very cool..

I really belived or wanted to beilve that the books were true when i was younger and i have to say that they trully helped me coming down from madness by making me more alterated haha. To much LSD in those days.

To be honest, i feel a sort of sadness that the books are just "fiction". I still struggle( maybe of to much acid?-haha) , one part of me wanting to belive that Castanedas books were made by using different parts of other esoteric teachings, arent we all esoteric beeings?
And by seeing the books as a mix of esoteric teachings i'm making them "true". Yet anothe part of me "knows" that they are only fiction. Manipulation of mind and spirit?

But then again, also christianity is a sort of fiction. A myth formed of other pagan stories, but it hurts me more that the Castaneda world is less accepted haha..they are both fiction. If i could choose freely to belive in something..what would it be?

One funny thing is that i still i see how the books influence me..in the way i sometimes choose to perceive things. But then again, i'm not sane..