I had been reading about DMT for many many years before ever coming across any information on extraction and I longed for the day I would meet a new dealer who would say to me "Hey I've got this new stuff called DMT, it's pretty intense."I have no problem with selling it at all, I also think this is a gift that needs to be shared, and hey, this is how some people make their money, I don't really blame them for charging for it, I sure can't afford to be handing it out to the masses for free, only to me close friends. Back when I was looking intently for it I would have gladly paid over inflated prices for it and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there. So I say sell away!

ABSOLUTELY, it's NOT ok! Except I'd substitute LSD over MDMA (MDMA is a dirt drug IMHO). Bottom line is that DMT, Mushrooms, LSD, Mescaline, all the great "teacher drugs" should not be sold and bought, but the reality is that as they gain popularity it's an inevitable reality that they will be sold. It's just simple American dream economics. A lot of people (unfortunately) like to use DMT like N20, w/ a small but quick dose that blasts you away from the world for a while. Not everyone is as spiritually dedicated to the spice as we are here, and these are the folks that would buy dirty, crap, dmt from some random dealer.

The thing that makes me want to stand up and fight against these DMT dealers is that the Spice is one of few consciousness expanding, outer and inner worldly substances that we currently have, that hasn't been completely contaminated by the dregs of a capitalist society. Spice is OUR baby, our lady, our teacher, and we (the type of folks on this forum) are willing to fight to keep it from going the way of mushrooms and LSD. More simply stated... DMT is newer, and less discovered, and I personally would like to keep it that way. It shouldn't be dirtied up and flaunted the way shrooms and LSD have been. Sadly, I think it's inevitable, but we can at least fight the good fight by not participating in the monetary exchange ourselves.

Lastly, I'd like to propose the idea that some of those dirt-ball dealers have probably extracted their dirty spice via teks found on this forum. Not that the teks here are bad, but they find the teks on a blessed site like this and then start short cutting them wherever possible, creating the quick, easy, cheap "Spice for sale". Is there a way to protect the Teks section to known and respected members? Perhaps this might help in our fight.

When I say "DMT is newer, and less discovered" I mean in mainstream pop-culture...

Peace
-idt

I don't think selling dmt is different then selling any other illegal drug (at least psychedelic). Except for one thing. Dmt currently while illegal in pure form can be sourced from a number of plants easily. If people try to mass produce and sell the stuff and keep getting busted one day some of these plants may get banned. That would seriously suck.

I must disagree, and at the same time agree. For people like me, who are looking for answers, life changing journeys and so on, then I don't see a problem if some guy sells CLEAN spice to that person with them goals.

I have gotten my spice from another who sold some to me. But I am also looking into extracting my own, but have been somewhat limited as MHRB is not legal in Australia. Anyone located in Australia must 1st locate the plant that contains spice. The on top of this, get a solid I.D for the species you have your eye on, or els you might just get poisoned. Dose not really sound fun dose it? I am already locating the species I need for extraction, but what I really should be doing is trying the spice that I have gotten from the dealer BEFORE going through all this trouble (trying to get together with Dan for like 2 weeks now)! It might all be to much for me to take in!

Yes, dealing the stuff is a negative. But it depends, as you can see with some of the points I have stated above. BUT I do agree with you though. People just looking to get smashed from Spice will have there eyes open, and will most likely see its NOT a party drug.

Funny enough, Dan sead the guy who has sold it to us, sead he wants to see how far he can push Spice, I hope he pushing it a little over the edge.

EDIT: would be nice if Smokey could back me up on this! From what he has told me, he travels somewhat of a distance for hes bark...

Look at what happened to society when LSD got popular.

It was an obscure research chemical for decades. But the CIA's bungling investigations into it as an interrogation drug encouraged its research and eventually turned on the subjects as wells as the scientists, doctors and psychologists. Once it became popular, western society was rocked completely, and LSD changed us for the better.

One high-society wife of an important man (it's in Acid Dreams, can't remember who it was) was turned onto LSD, and do you know what she said? That it was wonderful, but that 'we'd' better make sure the masses don't get hold of it. I can understand the selfish desire to keep DMT underground, SWIM feels it himself, but you can't expect everyone to be a kitchen chemist. Actually, I'd say many of the population who could definitely benefit from DMT are also not responsible enough to attempt their own extractions.

DMT is far more capable than LSD in installing the kind of change we need. DMT could finish up where acid left off. It encourages people to improve themselves unselfishly. It teaches love, delight, empathy, humility, gratitude... all the qualities that Western society BADLY NEEDS.

That is why I now believe that it is elitist and selfish to not want DMT to rise in popularity and be sold. I would never sell it because of the obvious risks, but sale will be a fact of life as its popularity grows. I think the line you guys take is good, because it encourages people to give it away and look after newcomers. I tow the same line myself, but in my heart I believe what I'm saying here to be the truth of the matter. Don't lose any sleep about the commercialisation of the chemical, because its inevitable. If popularity really is rising, then this is a massive wave and we are mere pebbles. What is really needed is dealers with consciences to be selling the purest stuff possible, to drive the scoundrels out of the market. Time was when any old weed would do, but nowadays it seems skunk is the only thing on sale: perhaps when the public becomes similarly clued up and demanding, the only thing on offer will be pure white spice? Dealers may often be self-serving scumbags, but they are at the very least symbols of the resistance against prohibition... it would be good if the resistance was formed of more ethical facilitators, and I'd guess a DMT enthusiast would be far more ethical than a crack dealer. Note I am NOT encouraging anyone to sell drugs... it's just stupid. Maybe we need these scumbags because they're willing to do what we aren't? Maybe because of that it's wrong for me to label them 'scumbags'.

Maybe ayawaska is the answer. Maybe that's the thing that needs to take off. Unfortunately, the vomiting, and the question mark over reactions with MAOIs which can make it sound dangerous to newcomers, as well as the length of experience given its intensity, puts most people off. Put SWIM off trying it for years, and others have expressed similar concerns. SWIM is one of those people who would never have found out about DMT from friends because he doesn't mix in those circles. The internet made it happen for him. In the same way, maybe dealers will make it happens to others? Turning the odd fuckhead into a responsible individual even and eroding their own customer base? I'd like to hear people's thoughts on that hypothesis.

Ohayoco - This is a very compelling argument, and I must admit that you've got me thinking on this if not have swayed me in the other direction; The idea of exploitation (or exposure may be a better word) over esoteric. The generous side of me clearly sees the benefits that spice could provide to the human race as a whole, but the insecure, elitist, and protective side of me would like to see spice stay underground and elusive.

I have a lot more I can ramble on about but (fortunately for you guys) I'm falling asleep as I type this. Great thread tho! A good topic for both ethical as well as purely opinionated discussion! Can't wait to read more reply's!

Peace
-idt

those are some good points
but you guys are forgetting something: supply and demand

create a high demand for dmt, and that puts heavy strain on the natural plant resources which supply the divine magic in reasonable quantities. it's already evident that region of the planet has been brutally exploited in the name of progress for decades, with all the deforestation and consequent displacement of species.

The plants are still legal. People interested in DMT should definitely start growing their own when they can, both to protect the plants in their natural habitat and to safeguard for the future. SWIM has started doing this aready, because if they ever do get banned, it'll be very hard to get hold of seeds- look at how hard it is to get coca seeds. Even though they're legal (I think), SWIM only knows of ONE supplier on the whole internet!

I expect that if DMT became popular, jurema would be planted and grown as a crop in western countries? Much like how the popularity of cactus has lead to a lot of people growing their own, outside where the climate permits or in greenhouses or on windowsills. I see your point Benzyme, but... would there really be so much demand that the forests would be raped? I hear jurema is already grown as a cash crop. And in any case, the rainforests are already being deforested for use as farming, I doubt the added demand for DMT would change the flow of things. Only activists leaning on politicians will change that trend.

I think its a wonderful idea to start growing as many entheogens as you can for your own, but not because I fear jurema will dissapear. Its just a good idea, to grow your own things, regain the connection with earth, reaping and sowing.... I have some jurema and mimosa ophthalmocentra seeds, and tried growing in southern europe but I think it was still too cold, so none came.. Will probably try again with this warm weather...

BTW, I seriously doubt jurema will ever be forbidden in Dreamland or Mexico (and maybe most places) or get as popular as coca.... Also, remember that mimosa is already harvested normally in quite big quantities (I imagine much greater than for dmt extraction) for the traditional uses. For example in Mexico against burns, or in Dreamland for different ethnomedical or religious purpouses.

Also, Mimosa can be quite easily sustainably harvested, without killing them.. Its a very tough plant that resist harsh conditions and considerable damage...

(can't quote, for many people said similar stuff, better if I just write)
What I think is that everything that becomes popoular lose its starting beauty and power.
I look at Nietzsche, at shrooms, at almost everything.

That's because, in the "popoular" term I see masses, I don't see individuals. And a fast diffusion of DMT would not, at the same time, spread consciousness about its use, like is in fact doing when is introduct by some good friend... then maybe one of the friend you give dmt to, in a respectful way, will start extracting spice himself, and giving to athor 10 friends, and one of them... so on.
That's a natural, clean, hide from law way to spread spice AND the "right" way of using it. Non selling to everyone, giving for money, without talk to the dude you just gave.

That's spreading ignorance, and the spice in ignorant hands looks to me not only useless, but quite dangerous.

My two cents. In a bad english, I'm sorry for that, try to understand me =)

For me, in my life, gaining that way off of the spice would just muddy up the entire relationship I have with it..destroy it's purity..I would never ever ever want to have to turn to spice, mushrooms, salvia or any other teacher plant for financial gain..

I can see the difference, the change of roles that these things play in the hands of "dealers"..They become commoditites..the magic gone, but only becasue it is no longer believed to be there..the sacredness is gone, but only becasue they believe it to be so... When the intention is set on personal gain(and not in a spiritual way), and there is no real love, sense of community and the desire for sharing something so special with others just becasue they are there put into the whole act..than it REALLY is something completely different..because this is alchemy. The ones who really know dont sell the spice or any other entheogens for personal gain, because they are in it for reasons soo much more important. They know that the spice is not GOD. The spice should not sit up on that alter..LOVE should.. The spice is simply another alchemical catalist..The ones who really know dont use entheogens for personal gain because they are driven by love..and spreading it is they're only intention..

Not all alchemist that have "sold" entheogens were really in it for any personal gain either..look at nick sand..that guy went through shit and still said fuck it and did what he did becasue he really believed in it, believed in humanity..and he's no millionaire..but really those guys are few and far between these days..but I feel I owe that guy alot..the lab he ran and got busted in here in canada was about 15 mins down the road from my house I cant help but wonder how much he contributed to the flourishing scene here..

pisses me off really, how I see all these rich dreadlocked kids with bob marley shirts driving all around in they're hummers and whatnot, completely loaded off all the "BC bud" they sell, naively funding cocain dealers, all the while ranting on about the "the cause"...

You know it's amazing. Mushrooms and DMT and the internet really represent a huge shift in social consciousness. The internet has definitely been the catalyst for the anarchic, decentralized spread of the the production of natural tryptamine hallucinogens.

The internet is like a technological metaphor for the mycelium network. It is versatile and unpredictable, pushing the frontiers of consciousness, first into cyberspace, now into hyperspace!

Say hello to the future baby!

Reading this thread....i'm actually amazed that people are actually selling it. Most people that i know (except my close friends) don't even know what DMT is.

I read T. Mckenna's "True Hallucinations" in 1994 and wanted to try DMT and never thought i'd ever have the opportunity to try it. If i had met someone who was selling it i would have bought in a heartbeat.It wasn't till about a yr. ago that i really seeked info about it in on the internet and then ofcourse i found erowid,mycotopia,nexus and so on.The rest is history.

Personally i would never sell any drug but i understand why people sell MJ,Psilly and Lucy...... i don't know how to synth lsd nor do i have the room to grow mj or shrooms, so therefore if someone is gonna take the time to grow it and or take the risk to sell it, i will pay. I believe DMT is different because of the level of awareness it brings and the intesity.It would be irresponsible to sell dmt to some kid who did'nt know what he was in for, plus i do see it a sacrilidge in selling this particular sacriment.I would rather introduce it to someone that i felt was ready for it.

On a different note i am buying to buy p.viridis cuttings,mimosa seeds and cappi seeds and gonna start planting them in various preserves and state parks.Being that i live in a somewhat tropical environment these plants have a chance of thriving in.

I think it's a good idea for anyone to find out what dmt containing plants can grow in their region and plant them.There was a thread about this a couple weeks back and it inspired me.Even if i don't make personal use of them, atleast they are growing and it could spread.Although in 10 yrs., i will know where some mimosa trees and caapi are growing.We should start a planting movement.