hehe ye it get's that way , but toke? You should just be hitting it all in one go, having a big cone just means your taking more smoke in not more tokes..

mhhh maybe there's a problem with my english vocabulary

I can't hit one full cone in one breath... so i got to hit it 2-3 times... but then its over and im off it's about half a cone for a full breakthrough... anyway, i keep experimenting its hell of a pleasure

Ye just need to practice I guess. A half cone in a couple of goes, although a breakthrough, won't go for that long. Experiment away, but just keep in mind that getting it all in one hit should be your goal, from there you can start making the cones bigger and bigger. Until finally, like me, you can punish massive cones in one hit and enjoy 10-20min experiences without an MAOI.

Yep, I've gone through many grams of leaf just between 3 people in one night. Keeps going and going further and further.. iz a mz ing !!

Having experience with tobacco substitution in MJ Joints -
I have seen that harshness depends - beneath Humidity of the Mix - alot on the smokers usualness of smoking the particular Herbal Mix .
One could also use a Spiceless Changa Mix to build up a tolerance inside the Lungs for the Herbal Basis of the Changa - Maybe during the days before the actual Changa Sessions.

Also remember to dry your Herbs as Slow as possible if you collect them in the wild which is favorable.

Coca Leafes are a wonderful smoke - and a really nice Supplement taken orally - I am sure they would add much to SWIMS Mix.

Menthol crystals?

I'm a non-smoker, but I find mint leaves not bad... so maybe to changa that wouldn't be bad. Than, also I found useful to put much water in the bong, so it is not too hot (for non smoker that's really bad!)

Maybe you can add pure non-enhance mint leaves to give a better taste

Do you mean where can you find non-enhanced mint?
well... I guess almost everywhere =)

Menthol Crystals are extremely potent I think an Overdose could easily lead to serious breathing problems.
Maya Ethnobotanicals sells them afaik

Concerning plants , the Mentha Species are sure worth growing

There are plenty of mint varieties to play with - I would suggest the Orange Mint Variety

I've just seen that the mint oil should have a 35\55% of menthol, and looks easy to find, so maybe just put the changa in little little quantity of this oil can be a good idea.
I hope I didn't misunderstand what are we talking about, damned english =D

I had a dream I wandered into a cave with a smoke I rolled that had changa in the middle. As soon as you smell it, hold them in long, and you will be integrated in no time.

Anyone exploring infusing Harmala extracts, in addition to spice, into their Changa? It would be nice to hear observations (and advice) on solvent choice. This information is all that can be contributed at this time:

Regarding smoking Harmalas, it was mentioned in another Changa thread that Harmine FB should not be smokable, but that Harmaline FB should be. Many hard core mushroom heads smoke crude Rue extract once they've passed through the peak phase to carry the ride out longer and stronger, so there is more anecdotal info on successfully smoking Rue Harmalas (the effects likely coming from the Harmaline?). Finally, THH in HCL form does produce active effects when smoked.

Several experiments have been made to add Harmalas into a Changa mix, in addition to Mimosa Spice (FB).

1) THH (HCL) and impure Harmala (FB) from Rue extract was dissolved in acetone. This resulted in impractical, sticky, red Changa due to the Harmalas interacting with Acetone. The resulting Changa had no Acetone aroma and smoked smooth. The Harmala component was active when smoked, smoothing the on-come, and lengthening the spice effects as desired.

2) This was repeated using just THH (HCL). It was noticed that the THH did not dissolve very well in the Acetone, remaining slightly grainy (this was not noticed in the first experiment as the development of the red color and syrupy/tacky consistency of the Acetone as it interacted with the Harmalas masked the undissolved THH). However the Acetone did not go red and the Changa dried cleanly leaving a minimal amount of residual THH powder left in the evap dish when the dry leaf was removed. The Harmala component was active when smoked but minimally as there was half the overall weight of Harmalas as the previous experiment.

3) Next, THH (HCL) and this time pure Harmaline (FB) was attempted. The Acetone went red again and the Changa remained sticky after evaporation. Like the first attempt, there was no Acetone aroma and the Changa smoked smoothly. The Harmala component was definitely active.

So, this is getting close. It is not a matter of impure Harmalas. Pure Harmaline FB will still turn to goo in Acetone and pure THH HCL is not very soluble. This shows that some other solvent should be used.

Any ideas/advice on which solvent evaporates fast and clean and would effectively dissolve Mimosa Spice (FB), Harmaline (FB), and THH (HCL)?

Naptha? IPA? If IPA, what %?

I think if you are getting sticky results then you may want to use a slower evaporating solvent. This is an uneducated guess, but I think if the solvent evaporates fast then it gives the chemical structure less time to form thus making it unstable (sticky?)

Maybe ethanol's the way to go? Though I wouldn't test it until it's been approved by the voice of experience.

ok my elf tells me that he will try a changa mix next time with his impure rue crystals..they are amber in colour..he does not know what a good dose for smoked harmalas are though so would like some imput on that...once he figures out dosages he will infuse it into some cappi along with spice..he only has about 300mg of impure harmalas..

He is unsure as to how much effect the harmalas in the powdered cappi he is using as a carrier for spice are having..but he really enjoys even low doses of about changa containing only 15-20mg spice...it lasts for about 20-30 minutes and he is easily able to get into a +++ mushroom level zone.. without the stomache load, and he gets lots of what he calls "tryptamine work" done..that others report they cannot do with plain spice becasue it is just way too fast..

It's beautiful he says..and if he can add some more harmalas to the mix, than he says he is all for it! Smoked spice + harmalas are now his favorite entheogen to work with on a daily basis..it's the only thing that seems to consistantly substitute for mushrooms and leave him just as satisfied(filled with love and joy)...and this is specifically mimosa spice infused into powdered cappi..chaliponga is nice too, but mimosa is really just filled with soo much light..just like psilo..

what percentage of 5-meo and dmt do you use for your changa?
I mean, same strong dose (10 mg 5-meo,30 mg DMT for exemple), or what?
I'm planning to enhance some leaves like this too =)

Also, a question for you: can I re-enhance leaves?
Like, SWIM has DMT enhanced leaves, but wants to add 5-meo. Should he do the usual process for enhancing, or that would lose spice?

ok so this elf wieghed out 200mg of impure harmala crystals extracted from syrian rue seeds...he does know really how much he needs to add per hit for the changa..he only knows the doses for oral when dealing with crystals..he was thinkning 15-20mg of harmalas, plus 25mg spice, per hit.. than infuse that into cappi..

That sounds about right.

Some more info (not completely scientific, harmala doses could possibly go lower, but just passing along info):

- 100mg impure rue fb + 100mg spice FB + 200mg 10x enhanced passion flower
- 200mg THH HCL + 200mg spice FB + 500mg lavender / wild dagga (~70/30 ratio)
- 200mg THH HCL + 200mg Harmaline FB + 500mg spice FB + 1gm lavender / wild dagga (~70/30 ratio)

Anecdotally, ~30mg smoked impure rue extract is sufficient to strengthen and extend smoked spice, so it makes sense to use less in changa as you would be smoking more changa repeatedly (vs. smoking an amount of harmalas first separately, and then smoking spice several times afterwards before the harmalas wear off).

Would be very interested to hear from other people experimenting with this. Amount of harmalas could likely go much lower. It would be useful to do several tests with differing amounts of harmalas but no other changes (ie: same amount of spice, same amount of leaf, same amount of solvent) to determine what the threshold minimum level could be.

Harmalas do mess with your physiology. While they are not true MAOIs, they are RIMAs, "RIMAs increase the amount of noradrenaline and serotonin in the brain and can work as antidepressants". Side effects can include "dizziness, agitation, sleep disturbance, and tremors". Since changa is potentially so convenient it is probably not a good idea to be chronically ingesting harmalas. It could likely have poor long term effects on mood, depression, anxiety, etc. and there are "slight withdrawal effects" to RIMAs as well. The biggest issue with true changa though (infused leaf that contains harmalas as well as spice), is that people must be safe and careful with themselves and people they smoke with. RIMAs should not be combined with recreational SRIs, "SSRI antidepresants, Narcotic analgesics, stimulant drugs, or Selegiline."
Source - http://www.bluepages.anu...treatments/antidep_rimas

Be safe.

That last recipe is the winner BTW, very euphoric. More like Pharmahuasca than smoked spice. There is a high ratio of leaf to spice but lots of harmalas also. So it is a very slow, easy going, non head smashing, smoke. Slow deep packed bowl, or slow joint with friends. Comes on very very slowly, long rounded peak, very body buzzy in a nice sparkly way, harmala mood lift remains long afterwards. Visuals don't come on until the second of third good sized hit (since the spice level is relatively low, it takes time first for the harmalas to do their thing).

soulfood - thanks for the tip on slow evapping. The red stickiness observed occured when trying to evap a small amount outside in the sun on a hot dry day. The same recipe was repeated, done indoors (with proper safe ventilation) in a more humid environment taking ~8 hours to evap instead of 1 and there was no stickiness. Leaf dried completely and cleanly with no residue!

LLB - thanks for the ethanol tip, sounds promising. 190 proof is not available everywhere though.

Great information! Though I'm not sure the point in adding Harmala extract to an already Harmala containing leaf. Personally I'm going to add it to Darco, Calea or Lotus to make them even moreee amazing. In terms of amounts I'd assume a sure and easy way about it is to start small and work your way up, finding a suitable level of potency. But like you mentioned, freethinker, adding too much might not be all that good after smoking a few cones in one night - after all, the levels could well build up after a few anyway. Alas a small but noticeable amount sounds choice. Also, have you never noticed an unwanted residue on the leaf after using impure Harmala fb?

The initial test was done with the 10x enhanced passion flower because on it's own, that leaf was not introducing enough harmala effects (when used in small amounts, perhaps a whole joint may have worked).

The Lavender / Wild Dagga 70/30 mix is very nice. Lavender has a great aroma and taste and both bring interesting energy. Will likely stay with this mix for now, adding Mullien in the future to smooth it out more.

Re: residue, The first test with impure harmalas was disolved in acetone and evaporated very very quickly (outside in full sun on hot dry day). It left the leaf sticky and tacky as the harmala went to harmala red goo when combined with acetone. The last test using pure Harmaline FB and pure THH HCL seemed to be going in the same direction initially as the acetone went red immediately. Frustrated, and worried, a small portion of the mix was removed and quickly evaporated outside to see if the whole batch was going to go sticky like the first one (in hopes of perhaps saving the rest of the batch somehow). The small portion did indeed go sticky. Thinking all was lost, the remaining large portion of the batch was stashed away in the dark indoors (safe, well ventilated place) to give time to think of what to do. Luckily, when it was pulled out again ~8-12 hours later it had evaporated very slowly and not gone sticky at all! It was put by a fan to dry completely and although the leaf took on a red tint, there is no residue or stickyness.

So, impure harmala could potentially also infuse cleanly into leaf without becoming sticky goo (using acetone) if you evaporated very very slowly (or used a slower evaporating solvent per soulfood's suggestion). Ethanol will be tested in the future with impure rue extract.

PS: Could you consider adding a small warning to your initial post regarding potential contraindication of harmala ingestion with recreational and pharmaceutical SSRIs, stimulants, and MAOIs? Changa makes everything very convenient and it wouldn't be good for someone to accidentally offer some to someone at a party who may be taking prescription Zoloft or Ritalin (or worse might be rolling or tweaking). Although most changa probably has minimal haramalas, it's still best to be cautious and knowledgeable. Educated, safe use should always be promoted.