Yes well said armor_fati, using a small amount of water quickly becomes saturated with DMT fumerate while the fumaric acid is weakly soluble in water, by using a small amount only a few mg will be fumaric acid. You can see it when you wash all the white fumaric acid crystals stay behind. It works way better than the acetone wash. The FASA pulls SWIMs freind had were prob 40% fumaric acid or more... even after several acetone washes. thus you purify your product and get nice crystals at the same time... Nice transparent yellow crystals and they do look like rock candy chunks.

Please post pictures SWIM has nvr been able to figure out how to do that....


When the large crystals crystalize out decant the remaining water into a clean beaker and allow it to evaporate this way you can keep the higher purity first crop of crystals separate from the second crop which can be a bit waxy although they still become very solid.

will do thanks.

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The topmost photos are SWIM's old photos of his fumarate that had just been extracted (or maybe washed...SWIM's unsure). Their consistency was reportedly much the same after an acetone wash or two or three. The bottom two show, firstly, the original test-tube with left-over fumaric acid and the new test-tube with washed, rextalled fumarate, and secondly, the fumarate crystals themselves. Those new ones weigh about 1.2g and take about half the volume they did before the water wash. SWIM's quite sad that he's running so low...

If SWIY does a recrystalization the crystals will likely come out transparent like sugar. But they look good man. Good work...

This is a straight extract of jurema, though, so are you certain that they would? SWIM assumes the discoloration to be due to jungle-spice contamination.

Edit:
SWIM would like to add that when he was drying the water in the oven, he ended up with a hard puddle and no crystal formation, so following some of Jorkest's advice, he made several cuts in the puddle and then scraped it up. The color started out as clear and yellow, but as he caused the sticky hard substance to become denser while scraping it up, it took on a darker color. SWIM's noticed a similar occurrence with mescaline acetate. These crystals are definitely quite dense. SWIM assumes that if dried by air or desiccant, he would get a less dense more clear crystal.

Oh do not dry in the oven. let slowly air evaporate. DMT has a low mp and thus will melt. When cooling at room temp the crystals will form out of the solution before all of the water is gone. One can then evap the rest of the water at RT or in an oven for some less spectacular crystals or take these are recrystalize. The initial crystals that form out of the RT water are very nice and a picture would be great! SWIY should def try it this way as the product is beautiful transparent crystals.

SWIY did not use FASA even so if SWIY used FASA to make fumarate crystals the other alkaloids were likely LOST in the organic/acetone phase.

The whole JS thing is confusing. There are some TRACE compounds that can contaminate the extraction of MHRB. However they are not found in the FASA extraction as confirmed by MS. They are present in the pulls from STB or A/B extraction. However if one washes the waxy crystals ten or more times with hexane or naptha they will quickly see that the amount of JS left is very small. If this residue is run in a MS it itself turns out to be mostly DMT. So it is a strange situation, the minor components do alter the experience however they are trace trace components.

SWIM will try this next time, but usually dries it in the oven for acetone washes and the like and it doesn't melt. It wasn't really liquid when he pulled it out mostly dry, because it was very hard. SWIM believes the stickiness to be due to leftover moisture.



Not sure I follow. SWIM used FASA. So by the M/S, you believe that whatever trace alkaloids in MHRB do not react with fumaric acid and/or that their fumarate forms are soluble in acetone? From bioassay and from the appearance of the crystals in all stages (freebase or fumarate), SWIM finds this a little hard to believe, but he could be wrong.

SWIM has seen a MS of the FASA crystals. The only peaks present are DMT. SWIW does not believe that any of the extra alkaloids crystalize out of the solution.

Admittedly there may be a variety of different plants or specimens going around as MHRB however based on several different people assays and in this case the MS was of the same one which showed JS "trace components" from the A/B xylene, FASA is very unlikely to pull any alkaloids aside from DMT.

By evaporating the water in an oven even if the crystals do not melt the water remains "warm" and the crystals are unlikely to precipitate out due to the difference in solubility. As things are less soluble in water that is RT than warm or hot solvent. This is the point of crystallization. Try it next time at room temp and SWIY will be pleased just let it slowly evap at room temp and collect. As in the above case SWIY did not re-crystalize but rather washed and only removed the fumaric acid. Which is good but it does not give crystals.

i know this is totally off topic but iv never has spice in my dreams - last night in a dream someone offered me exactly what is in the picture -

swim evaporated some fasw and got his fumarates - but the xtals were not as nice as swim wanted them to be - pix will be posted soon but swim was wondering how its best to grow these xtals - a large bottom flat evap dish ? or a little bowl for depth and a smaller surface area ?

thank you bufoman. SWIM believed that they were being severely lossy with their FASA freebasing after checking the mole math but this explains alot, along with a possible solution to the variability of pharma dosing with FASA. SWIM was a believer that acetone washes to hard clumpyness removed almost all fumaric acid but will now use water wash.

phlux, are those dream images freebase? SWIM has seen the tang before. an interesting waxy compound was seperated from this to yield a brown with slight red hue waxy solid that according to a friend who told me ages ago has similar results as acolon_5 reported. Not much effect was netted from smoking, probably just left over n,n. according to this friend later more pure n,n was smoked at sub-breakthrough levels and the effects were stronger than anticipated from even the combined weight of the first and second doses. SWIM tries to save this extra wax since there issnt much but the few experiences with blended n,n and this wax are quite powerful.

I never mentioned that I tried this water purifacation/rextalisation about a month ago. Works like a dream! DMT fumerate is certainly my favourite crystal to look at. I used a little heat to speed the evap to begin with but then left most the water to evap naturally leaving behind the nicest most perfectly formed crystals I ever saw, with a weight loss of 2.5 going down to 2g.

Hopefully that will store nicely until I can find a UK vender for THH

Some day!

A 50mL beaker works great. You do not want too large of a surface areas b/c then the molecules will not be as close together and forming larger crystals will be more difficult due to distance and they will not have the adequate space to grow. The key is to let the evaporation occur slowly. Just place in a warm or room temp spot and allow to slowly evaporate. Some heat can be used initially to evaporate the solution down a little. This will speed up the process.

Any pictures so far?

And if you have them, please tell the method swiy has used to get them (the type of a dish; room temp/oven etc).

I'd just like to know what to expect after such purification technique. There seem to be talks about nice clear crystals but there are actually no pics of them.

I know this thread is old but I figured why start a new one when my post is specifically related...



Upon reducing for the second time (as stated above), some crystals began to form. I then removed the rest of the solution to evaporate.

However the crystals which gathered after the noted reduction appear to fumaric acid, whereas the crystals from the first bit of the clean up and the final evaporation appear to be DMT fumarate (both by smell and appearance.

It would make sense to me that after the reduction the less soluble F.A would precipitate first but could someone confirm or deny this?

Thanks,
T