Hey guys,

So a buddy and I are planning on going to an upcoming Alex Grey show. We are considering doing a light to moderate dose of a pure B. Caapi brew to attempt to appreciate the show at full depth. The question is however, neither of us has done a pure b. caapi brew yet, and we aren't exactly sure what to expect from this vine on its own.

I have pure shredded vine and was thinking of brewing up enough pure aya (no dmt) so that we could have several doses equivalent to 25g of raw vine per dose. We are thinking that if we start early enough in the evening we can start with a dose each, see how we are in an hour or so, and then kick back another dose each before the show if need be.

Any advise and / or suggestions would be appreciated! Is this a wise idea or are we just asking for trouble here? I personally don't know how powerful the effects of caapi are on it's own. Do 25g reduction doses sound like a safe bet? We'd like to have some intensified sensory perception, but not be complete loonies in the audience.

Thanks my friends!
-idt

I dont think cappi should be taken like that at all. You could feel very nauseas but I suppose 25g isnt much but I dont think taking cappi and going to do something is what cappis for. Its really for healing and I think you should give it your full attention, not going to see a show "on" cappi. Low dose mushrooms or LSA would be ideal for something like this not cappi, cappi can be quite subtle or it can be quite overwhelming and make you purge, wouldnt want that outside. Think its a bad idea and I wouldnt do it!

Yeah, at doses that Caapi becomes psycadelic there are usually some pretty unpleasant side effects.

I would suggest finding another substance.

A strong dose of Caapi is VERY intense, and not something that should be done anywhere but a very safe quiet enviornment.

Microdoses are fine, but that's not really what you are looking for.

At a moderate dose there is very little perception change, I believe youw would be dissapointed...Caapi by itself can be a tad dysphoric.

Caapi can also make you *very* sleepy, which may be less than ideal at an art show...

Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback. These are honestly the types of responses I expected, but I just wanted to check in and get feedback from all of you. My friend had suggested we try this, so I told him I would get some beta off the guys on the forum. Needless to say, this is excellent beta, and I will share this info with him and suggest we go another route for this event. We'll save the caapi for a true learning / healing experience.

Much appreciated
-idt

This makes me think, what if a small amount of tropane alkaloids are mixed with the caapi like some shamans do. Would that allow you to take a full psychedelic dose of caapi without all the unpleasant effects? For example taking it with 3 Datura stramonium seeds. SWIM has found that 3 Datura stramonium seeds very effectively block nausea for every psychedelic SWIM has tried them with. SWIM has not yet tried them with caapi, but knows that some ayahuasca is made with only caapi and plants containing tropone alkaloids (and NO DMT). Such a brew is said to cause no nausea and be quite intense.

SWIM has thought about this combination for some time. It is known by some shamans, although they don't use Datura stramonium, but other tropane alkaloid containing plants.

Any thoughts on this? It would be 100% legal ayahuasca unlike ayahuasca made with DMT.

well..i guess its time to do some tests...

69 - I am no stranger to the Spice as you know, but I am a Caapi virgin. I am planning a pure Caapi voyage including three Datura S. seeds (I have lots of them). I want to experience the Caapi on it's own before I try it with Chacruna. I will certainly update the forum post-voyage.

Look forward to your report idtravler. I just got some free cappi (250g) from maya because it apparantly wasnt working with some people, think Ill try it with the datura too rather than waste dmt on cappi that might not work. Last time I took aya the nausea was pretty bad, I hadnt received my stramonium seeds then, got them now though!

Hey infinite I,

Is it the shredded white vibe from Maya? If so it isn't strong, although it is active. Made one brew with 120g vine + 200MG freebase DMT, another 50g vine + Chaliponga, both times the DMT was a no show, athough the caapi was active, but gentle.

So yeah, as your attorney, I woyuld definitely suggest not using spice with it...but be very careful with datura as I'm sure you will be...while it is an admixture plant in the Amazon, it may be powerful even with a weak MAOI, and not sure how much nausea lowering effects they will have in combination...best to dose low with the Datura family.

Thats right bancopuma it is the shredded whit vine, is all their shredded white vine like that or just that batch? I only got it because it was free. When I took the white shredded a couple of weeks ago with mimosa the nausea was really bad, second worst nausea ive ever had with cappi, Ive alwayss used their shredded white in the past as its been so strong. Ive only used yellow once and it didnt work.

I have been dosing low with datura recently with hbws, but the seeds ive got havent been strong at all and Ive not even noticed the datura, see ron keeps saying its safe at doses between 1-3 for nausea but im pretty sure hes not talking about combining with maois? I really dont want to get tripping off datura just use it for potentiation and nausea. You think 1-3 seeds with weak cappi would bring about effects from datura? Anyone? I dont want this tbh. Cheers for the info bancopuma!

Hey man,

I'm pretty sure if just that batch...emailed Maurice at Maya and he is a safe guy...apparently the supplier in peru dried the vine too quickly whiich killed off a lot of the potency. It will be just that particular batch though I think. On another aside I don't think all the tannins in the mimosa help with the nausea...I don't mind the nausea from caapi, as it is usually short lived because I have a deep, clean purge...have heard it can be harder to purge on mimosa...one of the things I don't like about rue is that I never purge, but get sick if I have a tiny bit too much.

I think 1-3 seeds should be safe with the caapi...might be interesting actually, but I wouldn't go above this dosage to start with just to be on the safe side.

I have an Australian friend who has drank ayahuasca with Brugmansia sanguinea, and he said there is a very fine line between active dose and overdose...and on an ayahuasca/Brugansia overdose, one may be lost in a wilderness of pain and misery for a lonnng time..

I cannot find any dosage information on combining Datura inoxia seeds or Datura stramonium seeds with MAOIs. I have no idea of the dosage needed. I've read that MAOIs potentiate the effects of hyoscyamine, scopolamine and atropine. Datura stramonium seeds have mostly hyoscyamine (80%) while Datura inoxia seeds have nearly pure scopolamine (97%). So there should be an increase in the effects from these seeds, but how much? I just don't know. SWIM has not tried mixing them with any MAOI yet.

The harmala MAOIs usually increase the potency of other alkaloids by about 1.5-3 times at most. So 3 seeds with the harmalas should come on like 9 at the most, and that's still a very small safe dose. But I don't really know. SWIM has never tried it.

SWIM actually took 3 seeds with his normal pharma brew..and it was fine...sort of a sedated experience but not negative effects

They are probably using large psychoactive doses of Brugmansia. Psychoactive doses are very dangerous.

1-3 seeds of Datura stramonium is no where near a psychoactive dose. I don't think it's going to impact the trip much on it's own, but will probably increase the psychoactivity of the harmala alkaloids. That's my guess anyway. Datura inoxia is more like Brugmansia than Datura stramonium. My feeling is that Datura inoxia would go better with caapi than Datura stramonium. It has a similar feel to caapi, while Datura stramonium is more of a stimulant. But I believe that Datura stramonium seeds would potentiate the effects of the harmalas more than Datura inoxia seeds will. But without SWIM ever testing any of this, it's all pure speculation.

Was that Datura stramonium or Datura inoxia?

Would you say it increased the effects of the harmalas?

Definitly try it with some YOHIMBE bark extract. The effects are very nicely warmth and slightly psychedlic. ILPT tested some with harmaline and results were great . No much of both was needed. ILPT has lot of positive energy could easily interact with people and enjoyed listening music. It must be great for concerts festivals etc. Harmine(caapi) should work even better ... Nice combo. It said one shouldn't take yohimbe every day. Anybody knows why?

Taking yohimbe everyday...hmmmm...I knew an African guy that took yohimbe everyday for many years.

He made an extract of the bark by soaking it in wine. He would then drink the wine.

He was in his 50s and did that for a good 30 years. He seemed fine to me. But I didn't know him that well.

I like yohimbe. It's really good with kola nut. That's a great combination.

I've taken yohimbe for 4 days in a row. It seemed fine. I didn't notice anything unusual developing after the 4th day.

I've read a post where one poor guy took yohimbe every day for a long time, and when he decided to come off it he switched to catuaba and found he got numbness in his extremities. Don't know what happened to him, he didn't post again in that thread. Catuaba shouldn't cause numbness, its a vasodilator, so I'd guess it was the lack of yohimbe. Nobody wants numbness in their extremities, a man needs a bit of vasodilation!!

I wouldn't take anything like that everyday. That's just asking for trouble. But some Africans do apparently. That African guy I knew who did it everyday ran an herb shop and seemed healthy. I'd even see him drink his yohimbe wine while shopping there. He still runs the shop. It's been there a long time.

I remember him claiming all sorts of health benefits that it had and he was trying to get elderly people to try it. I think he said it helps with arthritis?