I have become such a pacifist since I have taken psychedelics, particularly DMT. I guess it is all the love and sense of higher-dimensional meta cognitive awareness raise in conscious of how much one's actions affect others and the like.

Anyway, about 10 years ago (pre-DMT), I was half way to my black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I have been thinking of getting back into it maybe to go all the way to black belt.

But now I have an internal conflict about the pacifity of DMT and the violent internal release that is a part of martial arts. The discipline aspect is good no matter what, but I don't know…yin yang is always the case I know, and I suppose necessary, might be the perfect fusion of the psychedelic mental and the meat/tendons physical. Martial arts does seem to be 75% mental, but there is still the internal outward anger projections which are simply part of the action sport.

Since DMT I don't even like to harm insects or plants…


Does anyone else see a conflict between psychedelics and martial arts? Anyone have experience in these 2 fields simultaneously?

Thanks, Love and Light.

Crossposted from another thread:

Aikido training is like taking on the job of Lifeguard

Aiki-Lab: Addressing the 800 lb Gorilla in the corner of the Aikido dojo

I'm not affiliated with mr Quakenbush and I practice something different from Aikido, but I cannot help feeling very inspired by his videos. What I learned from my discipline: Open your heart & if you're not smiling, you're not doing it right.

Hope this helps!

Does anger have to be associated with it though?

Can't it just be raw powerful force without an emotion attached to it?

Like nature...when there is a tornado or earthquake, is the earth/wind/etc angry or is it just releasing a powerful force, as it must to be that which it is? It is just a part of it's life, right?


I sometimes have an urge to wrestle/combat with a fellow man or woman - not in a malevolent way, and at the same time not just for fun, but just because it feels like it's something I need to do/engage in/express. It feels like a primal urge. I don't do it because I don't know anyone who would want to, nor do I do any martial arts, but yeah anyways - it's just a thing - a thing that is part of nature. Force. Power. Releasing it. Feeling it. Being it.

We are that. (and many other things)

Be like water my friend.

But really, it's *mushrooms* that makes me feel all kung-fu-y, ready to fight, in the most compassionate, aligned way. DMT... yeah, more pacifism there, but with mushrooms, there's a certain ...embracing of the animal within in a very healthy way.

I totally disagree that martial arts oppose psychedelics. In fact, I had psychedelic trips tell me for years about something missing in my life, which I found out it was martial arts. Since then, the message dissapeared and I am now able to go deeper than ever in my trips. Training jiu jitsu has only helped me as a person, and gives me a hugely important grounding.

BJJ is an incredible tool that in many ways is very similar to psychedelics. I experience something like ego death regularly, because it kills my ego, shows me at what exact stage of my development I am all the time. One cannot lie to himself when training. How can I think highly of myself and pretend I am something which Im not, if I get regularly choked out or my limbs hyperextended by someone way smaller than me? I get the immediate feedback from reality and get humbled myself, put my ego in check. At the same time, it also shows me how I am getting slowly better through my own efforts, so it's a great realistic motivating factor to keep improving.

And if we think in terms of body, being a temple and all of that, it is so important to be healthy and fit, to put the body under controlled stress so that it can recover and become stronger. We are not made to sit all day long, our muscles start atrophying, and so many core muscles we almost don't use in normal daily life, and neither in normal weight lifting (unless you do functional strenght exercises/ use kettle bells etc). And then there is the stress factor that is being aleviated. It's incredible how much stress this releases. So many men, specially, have all this agression in them, and they try to prove to others how they are better in all sorts of silly external ways, are unconsciously competing with others. But if you are getting yourself on the mats regularly, you don't have anything else to prove in the streets, you already got rid of that stress and genetic predisposition for competition, you already released it and don't have to express it elsewhere.

Not to mention the medidative factor, when I am training, I am completely in the moment, there is nothing else in my mind, really 0 else. It's just not possible to think, because if you do, you'll get choked out in a second.

I've never trained tae kwon do though. I train brazilian jiu jitsu. The word jiu jitsu translates as the 'gentle art'. There are no blows to the head, you're trying to control another person with technique, without causing any damage to them, or rather, in a controlled form slowly tightening a choke or cranking a joint lock to show them you could damage them if they don't tap out. Maybe getting severe blows to the head in other types of martial arts might have other disadvantages, but I can't talk about that from experience.





and last one.. Notice how what these high level practitioners say is so similar to what some psychedelic-oriented person might say about their attitude towards things and what is important in this life:





PS: I once trained on acid, it was great! I could more easily feel what my oponents wanted to do

I think that the reality of martial arts is very different to the way many people imagine it, i think it is similar to hardcore raves in the UK, hardcore in the UK has/had a reputation of being crowds of yobs and scallys, if you actually go its full of really nice folks and very few orrible folk.

I have recently fallen out of love with my primary hobby, which is climbing, but im chomping at the bit to begin BJJ, there is a school close to me and as soon as im fit im gonna get on it.

why BJJ? well i like puzzles and for some reason i think being choked out is gonna be good for me, i think it will keep me in check as endlessness pointed out.

I think you should go back to it DisEmboDied, at worst you will waste an evening and at best you will become a black belt ninja with the abilty to protect the weak and vulnerable, you'd be like Hyperman

Thanks guys, you have talked about what I knew inside, but forgot. Paradoxically seeming, martial arts is kinda like Yoga on steroids, allowing one to enter into the areas of chakras, meditation, chi, the Tao, you name it. I was just having this internal conflict of being taught by DMT to not hurt a leaf or a bug's wing, while having the urge to do a spinning heel kick to some man's face, haha.

Aikido.

Long time practitioner. Great practice. I would highly recommend.

Martial arts is a meditative practice. Train with good intent always. Show your intent in and through your training.

i am reminded of anderson silva, bowing fervently before a fight.

he is about to beat the crap out of a guy, and yet he expresses (And apparently feels) no animosity.
what is expressed is respect, and possibly even love.

i think consent is a big factor in sport fighting (you would hardly love or respect an opponent when fighting out of defense/for your life).

i have sparred with close friends, and my own brother without feeling animosity or hatred towards them. even when i walk away pummeled, i feel no ill-will.


the only contradiction that arises, is if you train MA specifically to bully/unjustly fight those who would not consent.

but in my mind, taking psychedelics would amend such a mentality that would train for those purposes, so its pretty moot.

the difference between beating the sh*t out of a loved one (out of love and respect in a sparring match) and harming plants/insects...is that the plants and insects can't consent.

Bruce Lee Vs Chuck Norris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtZNvK3fTlM

I think dmt can help magnify that which is already inside you, and to a degree, reveal hidden parts of yourself to yourself. Martial arts are similar. Like others have said, bjj, aikido, or other jujitsu forms can fit nicely with pacifism.

But they don't have to. I love bjj, and kickboxing. I love fighting. I love wrestling. I love play. Maybe others can explain it, but I dont feel fighting has to get in the way of a mindful, loving, gentle life.

One differentiation to me is whether someone needs to be better than you, because they feel small, or they just want to be better versions of themselves. I love people who love martial arts, not necessarily people who love just being good at martial arts.

Btw, this is funny cause I just got back from jj class. Cosmic timing!

This is a very interesting topic. I've never tried any sort of martial arts myself, but know people who have, and from their description of it, yes, it does feel as if the majority of the work is mental - almost like fighting while meditating? Being completely engrossed in what you're doing, almost hyperaware of what's going on, as if time itself is slowing down - I don't need to go on, you guys have all described it already.

However, that primal violent urge that is within us all is really what I want to talk about. Is it anger/hatred? If a man in the woods kills an animal to eat it, is he feeling anger or hatred towards the animal as he takes the shot/deals the final blow? If anything, I would expect he would feel gratitude towards. However, most people don't have to kill animals to eat anymore, or are not forced to lead physically stressful lives, so as a result of this, that impulse for violence never gets fulfilled - but is it safe to suppress and pretend it's not there? I've found that the most anxiolytic actions I can do are strenuous physical activities, long hikes, biking, unicycling, running. That urge is beating right beneath your chest, your clench your fists until you're almost drawing blood with your nails, and you feel like destroying something, and the only way to really get rid of it (for me) is to physically exhaust myself until the urge disappears.

I'm not suggesting people start killing things to "get their fill" of violence, but I am suggesting that activities that may cause the same neurophysiological response (that is, a sense of release, something inside coming out of you, whatever it is, violence, anger, hatred, etc.) are very valuable, and everyone should have something like that in their lives.

So to answer the OP's question, if martial arts gives you this kind of release, keep doing it. Never stop.

You still eat, right?

You still utilize technology predicated on death and destruction, yea?

Psychedelics haven't taught me to avoid violence. Rather, they've shown that concepts like "violence" and "harm" and all of the moral baggage that comes with them are incredibly subjective and vary greatly depending on context. Rather than assigning your own baggage to DMT or the totality of the experiences it is capable of facilitating, perhaps consider the complexity of the concepts you are tossing around first and the inherent paradoxical contradiction in such statements.

You wouldn't have even tried DMT if someone hadn't killed a plant.

I was going to write something up, but what you said summed it up nearly perfect endless.

Who else is training martial arts here?

And here's an awesome new video from the mendes brothers. These guys are just amazing!

Awesome video! I don't train anymore but after reading this thread, it really makes me want to get back into it. It has been more than a few years but I was training in the style of Budo Taijutsu.

Martial arts are a great way to condition and discipline the mind, body, and spirit. When used in conjunction with psychedelics, I would imagine that the synergy would be outstanding!

One thing you could try is flow arts, like poi spinning or contact staff. I'm not a 'martial arts' person at all, largely because I find it hard to dissociate from the doing of harm to other people, but flow fills all those needs, and more.

It requires the same level of physical discipline, if you're really committed, as well as the mental engagement. Lastly, you can enter the same sort of 'flow state,' with object manipulation that you do when sparring with people. It's a total state of being 'in the moment' and naturally responding to the world around you.

Here are some videos that might provide inspiration:

Contact Staff


Fire Poi


Double Staff

^ Yes, so much this ^

Poi has been changing my life. And it synergizes so incredibly well with harmalas, cannabis, and psychedelics!


I can see psychedelics like LSD really working well with martial arts, although I have no training. Fighting someone is the last thing I want to do on acid, but I can't help but feel that if I was forced into a life or death situation like that and I happened to be on a coherent dosage of LSD, then some kind of super human beast mode with amazing reflexes would ensue. There is a reason it's one of the great semi-hidden secrets of the extreme sports community.

I prefer martial law and psychedelics personally.