Some people do not want to take psychedelics because they do not want to come back and realize that this is the bad trip.

I have felt that way the last many times I have crossed over and came back, making me shy away from the God particle, because I have things to do and bills to pay here. Those realms are so much better in many ways, pure creativity, compared to this meat and fear based reality which is so slow.

Am I being wrong? Am I missing something fundamental? Is this reality actually better in many ways?

There were moments I was desperate to crawl back "here".
Thank god "here" was still nice enough to let me slowly in again.
So...I dunno, 2 sides on each coin?

You are right Jees, I have been there a good few times myself. Good point.

Ah and therein lies the rub. And the magic. The tears that flow from this reality come from pain, the ones i cry on the other side come from joy.

Yeah, I'm with you, both of you actually. This meat space, as you put it, is full of the emotional reactions to the materiality we experience. Whether loss or grief, love or fulfillment, everything we feel is in relation to the interactions this meat has with the environment. Now, the key to all this that we talk about here is INTEGRATION.

Without any real frameworks within which to do so, we feel around in the dark for our own path. How to bring the peace and knowledge gained from the psychedelic state and put it to use? How to use the psychedelic as medicine, as spurrer of creativity? For whatever purpose you use them ? I'd like to see more discussions of how members DO this.

Grounding oneself in material reality, with a clear goal or with the setting of one in mind, and connecting to the pure divine potential above, while living from the heart. Yes, so very very simple and so very hard to do.

I feel like the infinite places we touch in the psychedelic experience are just reminders of our eternal nature. The eye-blink of an earth walk is the true gift. The chance to experience deep feeling; to share smiles and shed tears, to dance in ecstasy and wallow in misery, to know the beauty of suffering and the transience of joy... In the light of forever, the fleeting moment is that which will be most cherished.

^^^ Well said!

Agree, completely.

For me this is as valid as much as other ˝side˝ of the experience.
Knowing everything, being eternal and only realty that is real comes with the price of complete and utter boredom and loneliness. (yes i think those are also traits of the Source just like anything else and not only human domain like some believe)
Everything known, understood and nothing outside of it to share it with. ˝DEATH˝.

Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent. There was a thought. IDEA.

Divide and forget and learn by experience and not knowing it all was the biggest gift and expression of love that it gave it self.
As human i crave for that experience and knowing but as soon as i wake up to it all it wants is to forget and play this ˝game˝ of pretend since there is nothing better for it to ˝do˝.
Source knows everything on ˝intellectual˝ fashion and what it wants is ˝experiential˝ and pretending not to be everything so it can have a company and a ˝PORPOISE˝.
Source = Knowing and Human = feeling.
But at the same time it is all of it and none of it.
Paradox.
Then again these are just words that i currently use to describe the subjective experiences of mine and i am well aware that it is not doing it justice at all.

One friend of mine said it the best we are all right and at the same time we are all so wrong. Greatest mindf#$k we where able to get our self into.

I'm getting to the point where I'm not seeing either reality as the good or the bad trip it's all part of the same reality

This place ain't too bad. Sure, we've got our issues - but at the end of the day, most of our problems derive from things that we've brought on to ourselves. I've experienced some trips that felt way more difficult than anything I've experienced "here." I've also had some trips that made me want to stay "there" forever.

I'm glad to have here so that I can go there, and then come back here and laugh about it.

Wow null24 - it's like you're inside my brain today A hard path to walk indeed, but step by step is all we can do.

I agree wholeheartedly with Dreamer042.

Both realities are an extension of the same. Non-acceptance of one is a non-acceptance of the whole. Then it's out of balance. Out of balance is fine. Allows learning balance. Non-acceptance causes suffering. Suffering is fine. It allows us to learn joy. Both experiences offer sustenance. Feast from both tables!

Some might say that your wrong, or even a pessimist. I would say your being honest.

^^ this.

Whether one thinks his / her reality is different from influence is perceiving their reality from the source that thought it itself was changed in the first place. Who's reality can IT be? For the word 'real' is only temporary. What we cannot explain we don't completely understand.

Bad, good, in-between, etc; these are all labels relative to the individual. What one person deems 'bad', 'good', etc depends on so many varying factors and at the end of the day it's that persons perception of the matter, noone elses; not yours, not mine, not my uncles, theirs. What one person deems bad, good, etc doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case. This is the beauty of relativity imo; infinite vantage points. At the end of the day - reality is reality imo; there's infinite paths to approach it/perceive it; with none of them necessarily being 'the case'.

I know one thing psychedelics shown me beyond a shadow of a doubt is that all the arbitrary labeling we give to everything, while helpful in navigating this reality, is flimsy at best.

Benzs Hassan I Sabbah quote explains what I mean pretty well.

<3

I can understand what all of you are saying, but I feel there is an often untold sentiment that most of us feel at times. The gnostics were famous for it...dualism.

For me to be really, fully honest, I cant go around just saying its all good, or it is all just how you see it. On one level, I feel that is true..and if I was to take up a realist perspective, I would say that things are what they are, and it is up to us to make the best of them, however making the best of something is subjective..which begs idealist philosophies to cast they're shadow down from the spirit into the world of what is.

...and I am an essentially an idealist...perhaps at my realist core. When I look around I see a world in a state of perpetual competition..everything killing and eating everything else..war..slavery..starvation. It is not pessimism, it is just honest observation. I am an idealist, and my ideals I hold dear, and they transcend this dualist world.

It's not wrong to honestly discern what you feel to be apparent about this world. It is not to say that the world is wrong..the world really IS what it is...and one must know thyself to know thy world. It is however, within the dreaming mind of the self that we find transcendence and liberation, the freedom to stand alone, or together, without the imposition unto or of another. Idealist philosophy has been the highest manifestation of western thought in my opinion. Art, music and poetry extend from the first light of the imagination, beyond the flesh, incarnating out into the world of matter as mirrors we then gaze back into towards the divine. For the artist and the mystic, this gnosis becomes the spark that lights the murky path back home.

The gods of man have been cruel, and war has ruled earth..and yet they themselves are simple reflections of man, silently grasping in blind darkness at our own excrement for validation of something greater.

It is not wrong to yearn for the transcendent
or to seek liberation from the dualism of the flesh
or to request sanctuary from suffering

for we have fallen into forgetfulness..and god is unknowable. In the clear light, nothing is said, nothing is known.

The gnostics said, that god was an abortion. A blind demi-urge premature god of a lesser god, not the true unknowable god who cannot be called a god...we are but emanations..divine sparks of the source with which we seek reunion.

It is through our own internal alchemy that we find liberation..not through the good, or the bad of the world of emanation. That world, is secondary.


" A Crisis that Became the World

It happened that the realm (aeon) Wisdom (Sophia)
Of conceptual thought (Epinoia),
Began to think for herself,
She used the thinking (enthymesis)
And the foreknowledge (prognosis)
Of the Invisible Spirit.

She intended to reveal an image from herself
To do so without the consent of the Spirit,
Who did not approve,
Without the thoughtful assistance of her masculine counterpart,
Who did not approve.

Without the Invisible Spirit’s consent
Without the knowledge of her partner
She brought it into being.

Because she had unconquerable Power
Her thought was not unproductive.
Something imperfect came out of her
Different in appearance from her.

Because she had created it without her masculine counterpart
She gave rise to a misshapen being unlike herself.

Sophia saw what her desire produced.
It changed into the form of a dragon with a lion’s head
And eyes flashing lightning bolts.
She cast him far from her,
Outside of the realm of the immortal beings
So that they could not see him.

[She had created him in ignorance.]

Sophia surrounded him with a brilliant cloud,
Put a throne in the center part of the cloud
So that no one would see it.
[Except for the Holy Spirit called the Mother of the Living]
She named him Yaldabaoth.

Yaldabaoth is the chief ruler.
He took great Power (dynamis) from his mother,
Left her, and moved away from his birthplace.
He assumed command,
Created realms for himself
With a brilliant flame that continues to exist even now."

- The Secret Book of John

I think it all has to do with familiarity.

I don't think it's pessimistic to see the honest truth in the behaviors of those around us. People really are so attached to this everyday reality that anything beyond it absolutely terrifies them. Which is essentially the root of fear of the unknown. Not everyone is an adventurer at heart! This community is chocked-full of them, however

The more we expose ourselves to a reality beyond this one, the more familiar it becomes, and perhaps the more objectively we can see the everyday reality we inhabit most of the time. It can give great perspective, allowing us to become more honest with ourselves. I suppose it could also create an unbalanced view, but therein lies the challenge. Integration of the experiences of psychedelic realities into this one.

I've always been a realist and I've noticed that a lot of people who enjoy psychedelics tend to have that trait. It helps to see the two sides of the same coin, which I think is what we're discussing here. This reality might suck from time to time, so might our trips into psychedelic realities. It typically balances out in the end.

The wonderful Zen allegory of the Ten Bulls depicts the path the seeker takes away from the world of objects (a tautology, really) - gross and subtle - into the Great Self and having found the Goal, back into the world, completely reconciled with it, playing along, at peace.

The Ten Bulls of Zen