Hi all,

The incredible potential of Shrooms with a MAOI has recently come to my attention, and it's a combination I'de love to experience. I don't want to make the mistake of underestimating the combo, and so I think it would be rather dumb of me not to consult the far greater wisedom of the Nexus before ignorantly diving-in, and possibly ending up with PTSD or something.

I've had very manageable and rewarding experiences with LSD (x1) and oral DMT (~150mg and the tea from 5.3g of Syrian Rue a few times). This is full the extent of my psychedelic experience, but I'm quite confident I have a slighlty higher than normal tolerance to psychedelics, and am not the type to panic.

1. Would 4g of Psilocybe + the tea from 5.3g of Rue be WAY too much for me?
2. Would a breakthrough with Salvia better prepare me?
3. With the amounts listed in 1, would I be obviously "weird" (to others) after 12h?

Thanks for any input, it's much appreciated!

That dose probably would last around or over 12 hours for many of us. Harmalas can dramatically potential mushrooms (and are already psychedelic on their own) so if you're going to try it, I would start with much less.

1. Yes, this is WAY too much. Consider something more along the lines of 1g or 2g P. cubensis with 3g - 4g of Syrian Rue.

2. No, salvia is a different experience entirely. I wouldn't really say the two are comparable, IMO.

3. Yes, the harmalas will prevent/delay the metabolism of psilocin. This results in a trip that is not only more intense, but also longer. Be careful with this combo cause it's not for the feint of heart.

The combination is recommended, but a few precautions are in order.

As with every first time, it is advisable to start at the low end of dosing, and work up from that. Doing it that way requires some more patience, but you will get to know better the materials and your response to them. In this case, the rue will at least double the potency of the cubensis, but it will also add some of its own spin to the experience. Therefore, I would say don't start with more than half your normal dose of cubensis and no more than half the default dose for rue.

Specifically concerning the rue dose, I would advise you to use an extract and substitute every gram of rue with 40 milligrams of extract. When you brew a crude tea, it is not clear how much of the active principles of the rue are effectively extracted and ingested. When instead you grind and swallow the seeds, the uptake of alkaloids by the gut is spread out and unpredictable. Making a rue extract is not very difficult and it helps a lot in getting the dosing more accurate and predictable.

Another thing to mind is that when using the oral route with DMT, misadjustment of the harmala and DMT administration can cause quite a bit of DMT to be lost. You wrote that you took 150 mg of DMT orally, which I think is a very high amount. Before assuming that you have a high tolerance, you should consider that your technique may be inefficient. I point this out, because psilocybin and psilocin do not require harmalas to prevent breakdown in the gut as much as DMT does. An harmala administration technique that works suboptimal with DMT will not diminish the potency of mushrooms similarly.

Anyway I wish you a pleasurable endeauvour and hope you enjoy the smooth landing and marvellous afterglow that harmalas can add to the mushrooms.

Would this advice be the same for Banisteriopsis caapi

have you had psilocybe before? I hear this combo with a maoi is good, i have an experiment ready for the right day
I am not sure, but i think i know what people mean by a "break through," And, psilocybe is most definitely capable of all this, i don't know how much past dead one can go. (however i've only gotten my new "light" sources to work once and i don't truly know how this.. dmt (can we say that?), works.
I am into high amounts of psilocybe! but when i try something new i always test thoroughly before i test how far out i can get.
Dying is usually a hard test to pass.

Yes.

PS: you do not have to quote the entire post that you are replying to. Just the part that you specifically reply to or want to ask about is enough.

Are there any recommendations on teas from the yellow caapi vine?

I recommend first becoming familiar with just shrooms, once you've comfortably handled a couple of 5g trips and you're looking to go deeper and longer would psilohuasca become a meaningful option.

4g with a decent dose of harmalas (120mg+) would present a serious challenge to any relatively inexperienced psychonaut. No more than 2g of cubes (optimally dried and stored) and 150mg harmalas would serve as a good starting point.

The first step in this process is knowing the general potency of your shrooms, as the potency can vary widely pending many factors - particularly drying technique and storage method.

By serious challenge, roughly what would make this more challenging than 200mg DMT fully activated by harmalas?
With the DMT, I could hardly move, my mind was thinking thoughts (instead of words), ego death ect.
I suppose I just have trouble imagine shrooms being more intense than that, which I would happily repeat.

For 2, I realize that Salvia offers a very different experience, but is it not possible to say that the intensity of one psychedelic experience (say .3g of 20x Salvia) could make it easier to accept what happens during a second experience. For example, an ego death with salvia might be scary, but then an ego death with shrooms would be less scary, no?

A strong dose of legitimate 20X salvia is about 20mg, so 0.3g is equivalent to 15X a strong dose – a huge overdose. Be careful and don’t underestimate the power of salvia.

Its hard to say since there are many variables from potency of materials to individual tolerance and body weight. For me, a 4g dose with harmalas would be more intense and an hour or two longer than just 8g alone. I described this as a seriously challenging dose mainly for the general benefit of those new to psilohuasca, as mushies alone can be plenty potent.

I guestimate that 4g+harmalas would likely be equivalent to 200mgDMT+harmalas, perhaps a wee bit more intense (and probably much longer), but possibly only for you, due to said variables.

While psilocybin is quickly converted to psilocin, psilocin (like DMT) is broken down by MAO enzymes with some unknown portion surviving to reach the brain. Introduce MAOI and much more will reach the target receptors.

On a side note, actively moving one's body by walking, stretching or dancing is likely to boost the intensity, getting the blood pumping can take the same dose up a notch or two. YMMV

How do the effects of MAOI use with mushrooms differ based on whether the MAOI is smoked or brewed as tea? I have cappi leaves that I've been wanting to smoke during a mushroom voyage, but every time I eat mushrooms and get into the trip, I'm too scared to try it--I worry that it'll launch me much farther than I'm comfortable with. (Worth noting here: I am very experienced with mushroom trips and have several 5+ gram trips under my belt. My normal doses are 2.5-5 grams.)

Is there a difference in the subjective effects of cappi with mushrooms depending on it's ROA?

Thank you all for your feedback--I'm finding this thread to be very useful to my future journeys. Also, I've never heard the term psilohuasca thanks for adding that to my psychedelic vocabulary!

Yes. In my experience there is a huge difference in effect. Smoking 100mg harmalas on top of a 2g shroom trip may produce minimally noticeable effects, whereas a 100g MAOI oral combination will likely be notably more intense. Also, the duration of the effects of smoked harmalas can be measured in minutes, whereas orally the effects last for hours.

I can not speak much about other hallucinogens other than shrooms. I have tried a few, they seem kinda similar but i can't really say how all these experiences are different. But, the mind will play tricks! on shrooms i can get a dying feeling that i can actually see now in most lower doses too. But once i did die, that is i said, hmm, don't know how that happened but im positive i'm not coming back. I got a little destructive, not overly at all, it was kinda a celebration. But, i am still processing what happened 6 years ago. It could have been called a bad trip, though that term long before left me, it was challenging and i remember clearly saying very weird things that i'm still deciphering! One was, "you have awoken the sleeping giant," and i don't recall the rest without notes but since that trip my life is largely different, in a good way but working on it and i know i have to be weary now of what lurks in the subconscious despite good intentions, breaking stuff aint cool.

Ah! Thank you! That's exactly the info I was looking for. McKenna described smoking Cappi after eating mushrooms as "vegtible telivision" but he never really indicated what that means or at what point he smokes the cappi in the trip or how long it lasts. That's what made me curious, but your feedback is what I needed. Knowing that it'll only last a few minutes smoked gives me much greater confidence to try this.

For a first time, I think I'd like to smoke it at about the 3 hour mark--well into the comedown just to be safe. Anyone see any reason that this wouldn't be a good idea?

That is not what it is like for me. Smoked harmalas last much longer than a few minutes for me.

Caapi, Banisteriopsis Caapi.


If you do not feel comfortable about the combination, why not smoke a tiny bit at first? Evaluate the effects for 15 or thirty minutes and repeat, until you are satisfied.

^Yes! This is exactly what I was planning. Thank you for the feedback. I'll post reports after

And sorry for the misspelling.