After searching through the forum a bit, I have come to the conclusion that there is not a whole lot known about the stability of DMT when stored semi-long-term in solution, using various household solvents. This idea came to fruition in this thread about storing DMT in solution for the purposes of volumetric dosing and "micro-changa" as one member called it.

The purpose of this test is to determine if DMT's rate of degradation is more or less rapid when in solution, and if using different household solvents will have any effect on said degradation rate.

60mg recrystallized DMT was weighed out on a recently calibrated electronic precision balance. This sample was weighed into four 15mg piles. The 15mg samples were placed into four sterilized, amber-colored, 8ml (2 dram) glass vials.

8ml 99% isopropyl alcohol was measured in a syringe and added to the first vial. 8ml 95% ethanol (Everclear grain alcohol) was measured in a syringe and added to the second vial. 8ml industrial-grade petroleum ether (Klean Strip VM&P Naphtha) was added to the third vial. The fourth vial will be used as a control. No solvent was added to the DMT crystals in the fourth vial.* The vials were sealed, labeled, and dated.

*For the control sample, a smaller vial was used (2ml). This was the only other amber-colored glass vial on hand. I do not see any reason this would affect the results of the experiment, but I feel that it is worth noting. There is a chance that this will actually improve the accuracy of the test because there is less empty space in the control vial, and therefore less oxygen trapped inside. There is little to no empty space in the other three vials.

These four vials will now be stored at room temperature (approximately 60°-70°F), away from excess light. In one year, 1/2 the volume of each solution will be evaporated, and the resulting solids will be assessed to determine how much, if any, DMT n-oxide is present. The second half of the solutions will be stored for an additional year before being evaporated and assessed as well.

As far as the assessment at the end of the year goes, my plan thus far is to evaporate the solutions in separate containers and then try to dissolve the resulting substances in ACS-grade petroleum ether. From my understanding, if some or all of a sample does not dissolve in petroleum ether, it can be assumed beyond a reasonable doubt that the sample has degraded into DMT n-oxide. If a portion of one sample will not dissolve, it will be removed from the petroleum ether, dried, and weighed.

I may also add two more vials, one using heptane and one using acetone, later this afternoon. Questions, comments, suggestions, and constructive criticisms are all welcome!

Very cool!

This seems quite scientific, far more than what I was going to attempt.

Is your long test going to be 1.5 years total?


I can't wait to see what happens! I'll just wait here next to my computer for the results.

This is a fantastic idea,

So, this is purely for the degredation of spice, Can we assume that if the spice and vials were stored in freezer, there should be little to no degrade?

Look forward to seeing the results in 2 years time

Mr. Peabody: I will examine half the volume of each solution after one year, and the other half after two years (unless every sample has almost completely degraded by the end of the first year), so the experiment will last 2 years total. Please feel free to do your own experiments with this concept. The more experimentation, the better. Who knows? Maybe you will have completely different results than I will.


yamma1: Not necessarily. It is a pretty well known fact that storing DMT crystals in cold temperatures will slow the rate of degradation significantly. But since we (I) don't know the rate of degradation when DMT is stored in solution, we can't quite jump to any conclusions. For all we (I) know at this point, storing DMT in a solution may accelerate the speed of degradation to the point that some or all of it will oxidize within the span of a year, even when stored at -20° F. I highly doubt that this is the case, and anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that it is not, but it can't quite be ruled out at this point. Once I have some results to consider from this first experiment, the temperature variable might be one to toy with in another. A "sequel", if you will.

I`d bet you`ll have 0 degradation in the freezer, and that you`ll have more degradation in the minutes when evaporating the solutions than the whole year in the freezer. But please do test and let us know how it goes

I strongly suggest you use TLC to assess if there are any changes. Solubility and looks is not the best way of telling what happened, if anything, during the storage time. With TLC you could easily show alkaloid changes. Before this summer I should be able to help out with TLC kits if you haven`t procured the whole thing yourself by then. Also if your DMT is dissolved in same concentration in different solvents, you can just use that to load your TLC plates and test for changes without having the possible issue of the degradation coming from the evaporation part.

Also I suggest having a small amount of DMT stored as solid in freezer vs a not-ideal place, to also compare that.

Thanks for the experimenting/scientific spirit

Thanks for the suggestion. I was actually hoping to use TLC to analyze the results. At the time I was mainly thinking about what I had at my disposal right this second, but since I typed this up it dawned on my that the TLConscious kits should be available long before I am ready to test the solutions, assuming all goes as planned.

From my understanding it is fairly common knowledge that storing DMT crystals at low temperatures will slow the degradation. But I do have plenty of DMT crystals being stored at approx. -20°F anyways, unrelated to this particular experiment. I may factor that into the test as well.

For now, I only have the solutions being stored at room temperature. If one or more of them exhibits significant degradation when the experiment is coming to an end, I may consider doing another experiment with solutions stored at freezer-temperature and then comparing the results to those of my current test.

I would think for storage purposes converting to salt and lyophilizing then storing in a freezer would be your best bet. If you are going to store the freebase in an organic solvent though, I would choose a solvent with a low tendency to react with anything. Alcohols could react with spice and give you something very different. Aliphatics are really your best bet. Naphtha seems to be the solvent of choice. Choosing solvents with functionality(like alcohols) to there structure should be avoided for long term storage, they always have some potential to react, though it may take a long time and some heat to make it happen. Hydrocarbons like naphtha or even aromatics like xylene/toluene, will definitely not react with the product and should keep it stable longer. In the end though the molecules are moving around in solution and this movement eventually leads to degradation. Crystals have the benefit of less movement of the molecules, but ultimately the best way to slow them down is to lower the temperature. Any solvation will shorten the life of the spice molecule, To keep them stable just keep them solid and keep them cold.

Thank you for your input, ChemisTryptaMan. I really appreciate the information regarding alcohols versus hydrocarbons and how they impact the rate of degradation.

I am aware that the safest bet is to keep spice in crystal form and in a cold environment. When the idea of "MicroChanga" was being discussed in a couple of other threads (here and here), eventually the question of how long it could be stored came to fruition. So, I suppose the ulterior motive of this experiment is to determine if one could prepare a DMT/IPA, DMT/EtOH, or DMT/naphtha solution to be used for MicroChanga and store it for an extended period of time without the DMT degrading.

So basically even though it seems to be known that DMT will degrade faster in solution than when crystallized, and that it will degrade faster if an alcohol is used as the solvent than it would if an aliphatic/aromatic hydrocarbon is used; it has still yet to be determined whether or not the rate of degradation at room temperature would be too rapid for "MicroChanga" to be a viable method.

Evaporate under argon?

ChemisTryptaMan's post got me thinking. How about super long term storage? I'm talking, "This batch of DMT I plan to hold on to until I am old, and near death."

Suppose one took DMT fumarate, and covered it in a non polar oil, and let no air in the container. Or, kept some DMT fumarate in a container that had been purged with argon, or another noble gas.

Both ideas of which would also involve the lowest temperatures available.
Seems like that should work pretty well.

I just like the idea of having a "Plan Z" DMT supply.


So far, my anecdotal trial of freebase dissolved in ethanol shows no degradation, so at least maybe keeping it in solution does not hasten degradation over how I had been storing it (in small cork-stoppered vials in a drawer).

A quick update:
Thus far, the appearance and solubility of each test sample remains unchanged. Hopefully endlessness will get it together and get those TLC kits on the market before analysis time comes! (just kidding, endless. I know you are likely doing everything within your power to accomplish this goal. Please keep us updated! )

Sounds good...
I expect the spice will still be stable at the end of your storage period..
My tincher is working great...Tincher is the best way to store spice and posibly other alcaloids ...

Quick update once again:
It has been one year since I began this fun little experiment, therefore Stage II is on the horizon!

Since the TLConscious kits are not yet available, I am currently in the process of gathering materials and information that will allow me to assay the sample DMT solutions to detect any signs of degradation via thin-layer chromatography. A portion of each solution (likely 50%) will continue to be stored at room temperature for another year before being analyzed. I should have a more thorough update within the next week or two.

A big thanks to everyone who has expressed interest in and/or contributed information and encouragement to this experiment!

On a side note:
I have worked with ecstasydata.org in the past to have samples assayed, but I'm afraid their services may not be thorough enough to be of much help in this circumstance. If there are any Nexians out there capable of analyzing a sample via GC/MS who might also be interested in helping me by providing more thorough and conclusive results to this experiment, please get in touch with me.

I also have a few other side projects in the works which could produce much more solid data if I were able to have a handful of samples analyzed by means of GC/MS. Any costs and compensation would of course be covered, and your help would be most appreciated!

Much Love <3

I wish you had included to test keeping the DMT as a salt in a H2O solution. This is how I keep mine. In a sterile vial as DMT phosphate @ 50mg/ml. Benefits are precise dosing and the obvious ease of handling.

I have a bottle of DMT/naptha suspension in my freezer that has been there for nearly 4 years and it still looks the same as when I put it there. While I haven't assayed it I can notice no discolouration or degradation of the crystal.

Hmmm might need to test it :-)

Makes you wonder...
Could it still survive in napatha at room temp that long?

I feel like these (keeping the alkaloid as a salt in an H2O solution, keeping DMT in a solvent of choice in freezing temperatures, etc.) would have to be different experiments entirely, because it is well known that DMT salts are more stable than DMT freebase and DMT freebase (like most materials, to my knowledge) will have a longer shelf life when stored at freezing temperatures. Definitely great ideas though, there is a lot of room for further experimentation!


That's what we're hoping to figure out!!

I dont see why not - as the naptha would block any oxygen or other gases getting to the DMT. Kind of like storing sodium metal in oil. Plus naptha doesn't decompose (as far as I know)

Bump.

Any results of the tests?

Great and needed research! Love your balance. I wish I had one so nice. I use a gun reloading scale with 0.01 g accuracy. Will be interested in your results.