Hi all,

May I please ask for your input on this,

Would it be possible if you could compare San Pedro/Any Mescaline cactus to Shrooms.
What's the differences in them?.

Thank You.

Hi,

The common factor is that you should both try them yourself. It is kind of hard to express the very subjective experience of what they are like. The objective information, such as dosages, is easy found online, for example scattered over the many threads of this forum. With the help of a search engine you can easily find it yourself

Welcome to the DMT-Nexus.

At the very least, I could tell you that the mushroom experience lasts around six hours, while the mescaline experience lasts around twelve hours.

I remember asking something very similar before trying cactus. The answers were relatively vague and seemingly incomplete.

Then I tried cactus and understood.

Both are psychedelic and possess a limited amount of shared character.
For me, cactus is usually warm, friendly, welcoming - less stark in its imposition (but not always). It's difficult to say past that.

It like comparing soccer to basketball... both are sports, both use balls, you can find many similarities, but they are very obviously not the same sport.

I've never experienced anything quite like cactus...

Blessings & Good luck

A worthy and question to present to experienced travelers. If you really want to know the specific terrain, just ask someone who's been there and back, right? But the journey is yours alone and will mean something unique to you and you, alone. And ditto about finding vital information, the Nexus' invaluable search function can get you more than enough data for your query, as can Erowid.

Now, despite the limitations which human linguistics carry, in regards to defining exactly what happens during a psychedelic experience, we can clearly convey some aspects and characteristic of any entheogen. That being said, I do wholeheartedly agree with the above comments. It's like comparing apples to oranges, the seashore with the desert, the amazon jungle with the Himalayas. Sure both are psychedelics and take the witness upon an unbelievable trip. But there are similarities and differences.

Comparisons are often fruitless. What is significant are those aspects which are shared by anyone who imbibes in them (despite how subjective so much of the trip truly is). So, what can be said in mortal words may be of some value to you, my friend? Obviously, much of the contrasting, individual characteristics of these two Sacred Medicines has to do with there intrinsic physical natures. Mushrooms are soft, moist, defenseless and quite fragile. Peyote and San Pedro/Peruvian Torch are firmer, externally dryer and most fiercely armed for defense, due to their spiny thorns. Even so, it's the chemistry that truly matters. Each one gifts the earnest psychonaut a voyage beyond one's mental parameters. Golden sunshine and emeraldine prismatic light blossoms are lovely, as are purple rain and misty blue shadows dancing to and fro.

In my experiences, tryptamines and phenethylamines are quite unique unto themselves, despite both being psychedelic in their own right. Their effect upon the human system is nothing short of mind blowing. Shrooms are cooling and relaxing, almost dreamy, until KABOOM!!! Then, the sheer tryptamine rush nearly overwhelms you! Chilly giggles and a laid-back, rapidly-expanding, blooming, pulsing with intensity... vortexial fulcrum of awareness. Mescaline plants are warming and energizing, building slowly and lasting a way looooooong time. This of course, influences your choice of molecule, as most of us life on a tight schedule, in a time-frame which kinda boxes us in. Freedom is an ellussive state of mind. Sadly, this too is an illusion.

Psilocybin can be almost too much, too quickly... and this can be troubling for many psychonauts. Conversely, it can be hilarious beyond description! But I feel that the high is as close to that of NN-DMT, that they are nearly identical with the proper dosage and when the timing is perfect. But make no mistake, tryptamines and phenethylamines are each magic in the making. Ergo, both gifts are able to awaken and heal us, in profound and enlightening ways. Hey, sunshine and moonbeams are both beautiful and illuminating. I've had transcendent, whiteout experiences with both entheogenic substances.

Shrooms shatter the fixation of the ego-self and expose the universal in every minute appearance of this that. Dissolving any illusion about our mind's propensity to limit our own attention and in so doing, obscure one's pure awareness... so we are then able to expand our consciousness exponentially and transcend the compressed limitations we have become routinely accustomed to reside within. Cacti transform ones perception of anything at all, normally taken for granted in our ordinary, collective dream-world... to becomes alive with spiritual purpose and possessing a deep cosmic meaning. All the echoes and reflections which weave this living world together, as a whole, reveal the presence of the Great Spirit (when we attune to this miraculous view of things).

While shrooms blow the perceptual doors off the mind's hinges, suddenly opening a portal to perception which reveal an infinity of heretofore inaccessible knowledge, they can just as easily hurl the traveler into the emptiness of the Void, often without any seeming regard for the shattered ego it's devouring indigo flames may singe! Mescaline cacti seem to incrementally transport the traveler to an enchanted realm, a bejeweled world of mystical splendor and buzzing energy. Magikal and mind-bogglingly intricate, radiating in an amazing web of interconnected super-consciousness. I always feel the myriad shamans who have traveled these same pathways, many times before, ever reaching out to share and help us grow.

Now, each are powerful Teacher Plants and have the same purpose for the mortal embracing their teachings. I honor them more than I can say. Sorry if my ideas are a bit fanciful or simplistic, as these things are really impossible to define with enough clarity. Does that make any sense? But more than anything else, you'll have to SEE for yourself.

But please be wise, be centered, be careful and above all, be sincerely respectful to such powerful entheogens. This is not a game or an escape from "reality" and most certainly, IMO, use these Sacred Medicines is not a party. Other than that, don't get so serious you make yourself overly tense or worse, terrified to journey. Follow your heart, your intuition and you'll do just fine with the Spirit of either entheogen.

"Happy Trails, Amigo!"

Very well said! ^ That was a great read.

"Mushroom for me ( So far) I have always been able to tell what is real and keep a lot of my normal conciousness with me

Catus really tears aprt reality , which was terrifying as I didnt quite know what was real for a good portion of the trip ... Some of the hallucinations were indistinguishable from reality and I had a lot of fear and panic"


The consensus among most people is the reverse.

Mushrooms are much more visual compared to cacti, with heavier ego death etc and other worldy aspects.

I agree with this. If you take a high enough dose of mescaline, it can become terrifying. I have experienced this personally. Every trip has it's up times and down times, it's happiness and sadness, and at a high enough dose the down times can get out of hand.

I've been thinking about that a lot. I can't forget it. I think I need to go back there again and conquer my fears.

Well you have already heard the differences in duration, but many people feel, myself included feel that mescaline can have more of a dream-like quality to the trip. It is a phenylethylamine which are considered to be stimulanting, I find it to have almost an opiate like character in terms of body feeling, and to some degree mental state, though I doubt you would fall asleep during your trip. Also mescaline does seem to me to have less frantic like thought, where as shrooms at a "similar" level can have thoughts in my head racing with the source of these thoughts seeming to be less from "me" my normal headspace, but more like from an external source. I have also experienced nausea from both. Hope that helps!

I regard achuma as the highest medicine. An unstoppable force of Love and Compassion. Cactus has helped me understand reality and realize Love in a way that is very clear and easily applied to daily life. An infinite medicine with the blessing of Unconditional Love, Clarity, and Presence. Awesome with tobacco. Clarity. Eyes open, present with reality. Grandfather medicine.

Mushrooms on the other hand have a more playful energy with sometimes difficult to integrate experiences. Teachings and the Carnival ride. For me the real medicine of the mushroom is a softening of the ego and transcendant experiences. Fun-guys. Cosmic. Primal


What rings true from others:
"Mushrooms are much more visual compared to cacti, with heavier ego death etc and other worldy aspects."
"Shrooms shatter the fixation of the ego-self and expose the universal in every minute appearance of this that. Dissolving any illusion about our mind's propensity to limit our own attention and in so doing, obscure one's pure awareness... so we are then able to expand our consciousness exponentially and transcend the compressed limitations we have become routinely accustomed to reside within."
"Cacti transform ones perception of anything at all, normally taken for granted in our ordinary, collective dream-world... to becomes alive with spiritual purpose and possessing a deep cosmic meaning. All the echoes and reflections which weave this living world together, as a whole, reveal the presence of the Great Spirit (when we attune to this miraculous view of things)."

The cacti and mushroom experiences are so different it's hard to compare, and probably impossible to describe accurately to someone who hasn't experienced both. I would say Rising Spirit's comparison agrees most with my experiences with the two. My mushroom experiences are dead-on to what he/she describes.

I noticed a couple of people mentioned that mushrooms are more visual than cacti, but I would tend to disagree. I've always found mescaline to be extremely visual, rivaling LSD in terms of visuals (though the nature of the visuals are completely different). Some of my most mind blowing closed and opened eye visuals were from pure mescaline or cactus tea.

I find cacti to be more gentle than mushrooms. Mushrooms can become overwhelming very fast and can take my mind to places I might not be as comfortable with or have as much control over. Mescaline has a warm, stimulating phenethylamine feel and has an inherent "happy" feeling for lack of a better word. I can get strong visuals from mescaline without getting floored by it, whereas with mushrooms if I'm having strong visuals you can bet my mind is pretty far out there (although cacti can get pretty heavy too at high doses).

I would never say one is better than another; each are beautiful and unique in their own way. Of course if you really want to know you have to experience it for yourself. Buy the ticket take the ride

To me mushrooms is like a surreal freaking rollercoaster ride, where mescaline is like a childhood memory of a very smooth ride on nicest, shiniest, most beautiful painted horse on the caroussel.

They are both great.

For me the main differences are:

- Shrooms go a lot deeper mentally as cactus at the usual full dose (450 mg mescaline vs 3 gram dried cubensis).
- Shrooms visuals are faster more vision shattering than cactus.
- Shrooms duration is half shorter than cactus.
- Nauseau on mescaline come up is high and after that gone; with mushrooms nausea fluctuates during the trip.
- Mescaline colors are more pronounced
- Stimulation is way higher on mescaline (in a nice way though)
- Mescaline never gave me a 'bad' trip, where on shrooms I got several.

Ive yet to see anyone define the mushrooms in question. A. Muscaria can be significantly different the p. cubensis mushrooms

This strikes me as a fairly adequate description.

Mushrooms: Feel mostly like sub-breakthrough-dose DMT (between 2 and 7g dry cubensis for most at least).....and the more DMT one has experience with, the more his mushroom experiences begin to resemble n,n DMT experiences.

San Pedro: Feels like what LSD always should have felt like. Smoother, more colourful, and with more of a guiding (omniscent?) spirit presence (similar to tryptamine plant entheogens.) Body sensations are indeed superior to those bestowed upon one by LSD...to a fair extent.....more entactogenic/empathogenic than LSD.

Taken as a brew or a resin/tar, San Pedro produces anywhere from mild to moderate nausea, unlike LSD (for most). Isolation of mescaline mostly resolves this, however.


I would say that it is nearly impossible, when dealing with brews, to ingest enough San Pedro as to have an experience that rivals anything over 4g dry cubensis in terms of sheer power (part of the reason that, as I state below, I don't believe San Pedro is best taken raw/alone, but rather as an ingredient for a far more profound/meaningful alchemy

Interesting "tidbit?": When taken in combination, most people tend to prefer psilocybe+mescaline to psilocybe+LSD. They tend to blend/synergize in a far superior way.....(one could say that the spirits of the two ancient plant sacraments commune....resulting in very interesting things)

Personally, however, I feel that to truly access the potential of the combination, one is to use harmalas as a "glue" that creates an immensely interesting bond between the two sacraments. As great as taking San Pedro and mushrooms together is, it still mostly feels like two superimposed experiences. Two spirit presences though there may be, it still feels like two distinct entities "collaborating?". Adding harmalas to the alchemy changes everything. Adding wachuma to Psilohuasca is "WHERE IT'S AT"....it changes everything.....it will have the patient thinking that this is what San Pedro is for. The experience no longer feels like two separate things going on. Rather, it feels like one single, overarching presence takes over. It's like the Psilohuasca is finally allowing the San Pedro to shine through for what it really is. No joke, it feel like Psilohuasca is to San Pedro what MAOI plants are to DMT plants. An enabler. A catalyst. No, harmalas alone do not have anywhere near that effect on San pedro. It's like nothing else that I have encountered. The great part? Compared to a regular San Pedro experience, this requires FAR LESS starting material aka you'll feel the effects of the San Pedro far more by adding 6" worth of it to a basic Psilohuasca than you would by ingesting a full 3' Pedro brew.

Also, unlike when dealing with the far more basic (plain) mushrooms+San Pedro, where the effects of the San Pedro far outlast those of the mushroom, in this situation, seeing as Psilohuasca and San Pedro tend to have a similar duration of action/effect already, the effect is PERFECT. Everything melds SEAMLESSLY. The harmalas change/strengthen the mushroom effect, which in turn allows the Pedro to shine through in a way that mushrooms or harmalas alone never could. The healing is illuminated and boosted to levels you'd be hard-pressed to imagine before partaking in this (I would imagine) rare sacrament. Once this is tried, i'm hard pressed to imagine he/she who tried it ever going back to San Pedro alone.....I feel it would be a massive waste.

Blessings,

M.

Shrooms last 4-6 hours, come on fast and are more visual and intense. Much more disorienting and occasionally it is hard to remember insights (sometimes insights are remembered easily though). Often makes me giggle. If you eat more shrooms later or the next day they are usually less strong then your first dose, though this tolerance fades after 2 days in my experience.

Cactus comes on real slow sometimes but stays with you all day - usually 15 hours. Less visual but more empathic and emotional for most people. Not nearly as disorienting for most people - especially if you compare higher doses of each. Also easier to understand sometimes and to remember your insights. Reverse tolerance - gets stronger if you drink more or drink it a second day.

Both can be great in nature or in the dark. Both are enhanced by silence sometimes and both are enhanced by music sometimes. I usually prefer to make my own music and have silence in-between that. I dont like to mix them together - tried it a few times and while it was fun, it wasnt as insightful as either on their own.

They are very different experiences though I think they can teach you similar lessons and their styles of teaching can compliment each other if you alternate which one you work with.

Really? Interesting



Have you ever predosed with harmalas when combining them? If you get the chance, please trust me when I say that a dose of syrian rue made all the difference between a strange overlapping experience, and a new, far more visionary one that seemed to easily rival ayahuascas in many senses.

San Pedro or mushrooms on their own can rival Ayahuasca already for me - actually my deepest ceremonies ever have been with just San Pedro (not a single other thing mixed in).

I have not done them together with harmalas, but I have done each on their own with harmalas.... Maybe I will try all 3 sometime, but I am not sure I need it.... If it feels right in the moment some day I will try it though - you never know what will present itself in ceremony sometimes.

For me when I mixed them it seemed as if they both wanted to take me in different directions... And both had this playful side that got really magnified. I think I mixed them together maybe 4-5 times total and it was like that each time for me and the people with me. It was fun - did leave me a little spaced out afterwards which neither on its own does....

I usually prefer to work with one medicine at a time these days to tell you the truth. Only ones I really mix are amanita with psilocybin lately.....

Only thing I feel I can add to this is the significant hug like body high that San Pedro produces in my experience whereas shrooms are more of a drunken body state.

Wow someone has my same avatar. That could be confusing.

These are exactly the things that adding harmalas to the mix eliminates. It changes the feeling to that of 1 experience with 1 direction, rather than 2 superimposed entheogenic experiences.




Please tell me more about this combination. I have been wondering about it for a while....what kind of ratios are you looking at? Do you ever combine amanita tea/ambrosia with psilocybe tea in one brew, or must one rather preload with the amanita before ingesting the psilocybe (given the longer time of onset and longer duration of action of the amanita?)