Hi all,

It's been a while!

Question for everyone. A friend has produced some mescaline HCL and some changa, and we're intending to mix. Should be 500mg each of mescaline, with a B. Caapi changa mix that's 60/40 DMT.

Here's the question. Will the B. Caapi have an effect on the mescaline? If so, how much so? Would your opinion be to take separately, or just go for it? We're all experienced, I'm just trying to avoid 500mg of mescaline doubling in strength for the rest of the trip - okay if it's just an hour or so.

Cut and pasted from TIHKAL Alexander shulgin.

(Caapi contains harmine/harmaline/other harmala alkaloids)

Harmaline WITH MESCALINE

(with 100 mg harmaline, 60 mg mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine) [20 min]) "At two hours I was in a pleasant state of physical relaxation, a fine sense of well being, and I found music most enjoyable. From then to the fourth hour, thoughts flowed freely, and it became obvious that insight was a major part of this experience. Normally unconscious thoughts were easily available. It was as if I could observe my mind in operation, as facts were weighed to form conclusions. By the sixth hour music was a thing of beauty, with the higher notes crisp and clear. The harmaline has probably worn off. Sleep at eight hours, and the next day was without any adverse effects. This was a remarkable experience, the insight of TMA, and the relaxation of MDMA."

(with 150 mg harmaline, 100 mg mescaline [15 min]) "A stomach ache developed at about 45 minutes, followed by a mild nausea which occurred intermittently throughout the next six hours. I felt comfortable, although there was a slight discoordination at about two hours. Walking was never a problem but did require more concentration than normal. Colors on the television were obviously more intense, and highly saturated at this point and moderate photophobia developed. Even a fire in the fireplace was distracting, and stereo was best enjoyed in the dark. Attempts at sleep did not work until the ninth hour. Upon awakening there was a feeling of dehydration but otherwise no ill effects. Mild looseness of stools was present later that morning. Since experiments using only mescaline at doses between 80 and 120 mg resulted in no CNS effects at all, it seems clear that the MAO blocking effects of the harmaline were crucial to this experience

-EG

Thanks - anyone else with any experiences to report?

We'll be doing larger doses of the mescaline (I'm surprised Shulgin went with amounts like 60mg or 100mg for mescaline, but hey). Also, not sure whether the guy consumed it or smoked it - we'll be smoking it.

Though I personally have never heard of mescaline being smoked, I would like to hear your experience afterwards. The reason why shulgin used such small doses was because he was trying to prove that when combined with an MAOI sub-active doses of mescaline become active.

https://www.erowid.org/p...cacti_guide_trip02.shtml

The story below was cut and paste from the link above:

Mickey writes:

I heard a story recently of a guy who combined San pedro cactus juice with Syrian rue extract.

Here is what he did:

A three foot length cactus was frozen over night. The next morning, the green outer layer of cactus was cut off and blenderized, the core was offered to the compost spirits. The pulp was then thawed and squeezed through a silk screen. The resulting liquid totaled about three cups of frothy slime. The solids were returned to the freezer for a later excursion.

At 8:30 a.m. an extract of harmala was ingested. It had been prepared using the salt/vinager extraction method, and was fairly pure alkaloids.

Thirty minutes later began the somewhat unpleasant task of getting three cups of bitter slime down. It was actually easier than some of the more watery brews he has ingested in the past, as the Pedro juice just slips down the throat. There was usually a string of slime that followed his mouth as it left the cup.

One hour later, the effects began. There was no nausea at all. Whithin three hours the trip reached a plus 3 where it stayed for the rest of the day. He spent the day outside in a nice wild setting. The wonders of nature were discovered anew as if he was a chid again. There were no strong closed eye visuals, though hearing was improved to hear the songs of San Pedro. The effects were very clear, and everything was alive with a new richness. There were no brain fry feelings that he has noted from past acid trips.

At 11 p.m. that night, the effects had diminished. He thought it might be time for sleep by 1 a.m..,but Pedro wasn't done with him yet. Sleep didn't come for another three hours. This was a good time to lay quietly without the stimulation that daylight provides.

The next day he woke satisfied but tired. It should be noted that he used 12 mg. of melatonin nightly for seven days prior to this experiment.

Here is another link that will be helpful to you, in this link harmine/harmaline and MESCALINE combinations are discussed.

https://www.erowid.org/l...aya_sec4_mescaline.shtml

-EG

Many thanks, EG.

Sorry for being unclear. I meant the changa mix will get smoked. I guess we'll be doing pipes of .04/.05 if it were just freebase. Does smoked b. caapi have an active time longer than injested, or is it roughly the same? And either way, how long do the inhibitors last?

The mescaline is HCL, so we'll just be mixing that in water or bombing it or something.

It sounds like it should be safe to do - even quite pleasant. Everyone taking part is experienced. I just didn't want to blow anyone's minds out with the DMT or have everyone go from mellow mescaline to insane stuff for the next three hours or anything. Also, didn't want to smoke the DMT first and for the inhibitor to interfere with the mescaline.

Either way, sounds like one I should probably report back on afterwards

I'm actually very interested in harmala alkaloids and routes of administration, if you were to consume the harmala alkaloids orally you would have mono amine oxidase inhibition for roughly 4 to 8 hours. When smoked I only have anecdotal evidence to go on, but in my personal experience with smoking Changa the harmine/harmaline/THH effects did seem to last the standard duration.

When I consume mescaline I generally just put it in some "00" gel-caps and swallow it. In your case I would keep some things in mind, such as: mescaline can take up to 3 hours to take full effect, so it's not a good idea to re-dose until after 3 hours has passed. And that in general I would say that mixing MAOIs with phenethylamines/amphetamines is potentially dangerous, though in the case of mescaline it appears to be safe,I would still keep in mind that the dose needed to reach full effects is greatly reduced when using an MAOI, so it may be a good idea to start with small doses.

(When consuming mescaline it also pays to remember that the hydrochloride salt has a different dose thatn the citrate salt and so on. I'm sure you already know this though)

Please report back.

-EG

A few years ago I smoked some change on cactus out in the woods one summer morn with some friends, and it was fanastic...in fact it was the definite highlight of an otherwise fairly underwhelming and nauseating cactus experience. So personally I would say go for it, but that's just me.

I think adding dmt to the peak or post peak of mescaline is a good idea. Very much so.

Back in the '90's, not too long after Pihkal and Tihkal were published, there was a fair amount of interest in this combination and consensus in the community was that harmalas potentiated mescaline roughly by a factor of four.

YMMV, but I'd agree with the above comment to start smaller and work your way up.

Thanks all for your feedback - greatly appreciated!

We won't be redosing. I'm thinking the plan will be to mail this thread to the others involved and make sure they are happy, and then go for it around the 5-6 hour mark. That said, given the length of time the inhibitors could last for, it could be good fun hitting it in the couple of hours or so we'll spend waiting for it to kick in. Sounds like it'd certainly be the rocket boosters we need to have a really good time in space - something I feel I need after a hard start to the year.

Also definitely sounds like one that deserves a report - will make sure to take a pen and paper on this one

I tried smoking changa after consuming mescaline but I didnt like it to be honest.

It felt like the mescaline somehow 'held' the DMT in the center of my vision, so it couldnt fully develop itself. Also I had some dark motifs showing up in the vision. It might be a coincidence though, since I only tried it once or twice in this one occasion, so I can't generalize.

I did not feel any potentiation of the mescaline itself, it was more like, addition of the two.. When the changa effects came down, I was like I had been before with the mescaline, didnt seem to affect it.

Anyways, try it out and let us know

good luck!

A friend told me it was a good combination. That was with a lighter dose of mesc (~350mg), though, and less harmalas (closer to just enhanced leaf). It definitely kicked it up a few notches (ripped a hole in the sky through which glyphs started falling) for about 20 minutes and left a nice afterglow for the rest of the trip. He actually very much agrees with the above comment about the DMT visions being "held" in the center and contained, but he thought that was pretty cool.

I have done aya and mescaline together and had same issue with stomach aches but after purge I was fine but you need to be careful with MAOI be safe much love 💚💛💜