So I've read on a couple of sites that turbina occurs not only in Meso-America, but also along the North American gulf coast.

http://entheology.com/pl...ina-corymbosa-ololiuqui/

How accurate is this?

I've kept my eye open for them all summer and last week I found a vine which could be it, but my phone was dead so I couldn't take any pics. It also appeared to have just started to bloom for the year.
Now I'm sure they could survive here, zone 9b and 10a, ipomoea alba grows wild here, but only right on the coast and around tidal lakes and bays. I live in a micro climate where it stays much warmer in winter than the immediate surrounding areas. Growing season varies from ~350 days to all year, right on the coast it never freezes.

Is turbina salt-tolerant? I'm sure it could take as much cold as the black mangrove.

Also how long do they're flowers stay open for each day. A few weeks ago I rode to the mouth of the Miss River looking for turbina, found a Huge amount of moonvine growing on the bank of the river, and a lot of lead trees and sweet acacia but no turbina, of course it was afternoon and they may have closed.

Quite the interesting specimen. The plant itself is invasive to the united states and is naturalized else where. I feel the flowers are only open throughout the morning.. being a morning glory species. They contain a plethora of nectar for pollination. I hope to have this plant up and growing tall by mid summer. Do you have plans for growing or harvesting wild seeds?

Turbina (Ololiúqui) has a very interesting backround in Aztec / Meso history and contains ergine at 0.07% from what that page states.

Also, beautiful Ipomoea you have there in DP.

I actually just planted some seeds. I think I'll grow a few in the yard and plant some in a nearby patch of woods that has fairly short trees, mostly yaupon hollies. Hopefully in the wild they will bloom their first year. I like to grow the plants I'm looking for in the wild. It's easier to ID them if you have a reference specimen at home. That's how I originally found wild desmanthus.

I still think I'll find them growing wild someday. I find it hard to believe that the native Americans didn't know about snake vines, when the Aztecs and maya both had wide trading networks which included the US gulf coast.

Also I don't remember the exact species but at a archeological site called Cahokia near St. Louis, ipomoea seeds were found in a burial mound.

Oh, very good! Hope all goes well with that. Yes, I recall you mentioning that about the wild desmanthus. Hmm, well I suppose it hadn't reached that part of the world quite yet.

That's interesting about the ipomoea seeds.. which mound are you referring to exactly? The closest site I could find is the sugarloaf mound found near St. Louis, apparently the last known native mound. 1 whole acre of it.

The species buried may have been the sweet potato morning glory plant.. also known as ipomoea polpha or 'underground pumpkin,' and is native to North America.. actually, in only one locality known to the northern territories. I see it grow in my backyard here during the warmer seasons, particularly late spring. Northern native Americans would use it as a food source or medicine.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=ieVUAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA103&lpg=PA103&dq=ipomoea+species+found+in+burial+site&source=bl&ots=pg-NRp3q5p&sig=cP9Fq_-e7plU-2R4QavFiKVmea8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uyKzVKfhA9ifyATW0YKgBw&ved=0CFQQ6AEwDDgK#v=onepage&q=ipomoea%20species%20found%20in%20burial%20site&f=false

I'm going to have to search for the paper I read that in, but it wasn't sweet potato. I'm fairly sure it was an ergot alkaloid containing species.

Awesome! Would be happy to read that paper. Plenty of ergot containing species it could be.

Check out page 17 http://www.laarchaeology...tters/2007%20No.%203.pdf

This paper is about a mound on the Mississippi coast, it contained morning glory seeds
http://www.academia.edu/..._Antiquity._78_2_344-358

Here it is. It's in a book, took me forever to find it again.

https://books.google.com...DIDQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAw

Page 17:

This certainly is a wide characteristic of morning glory species.



7 plants have use of emetics.. all morning glories will cause vomiting if enough is consumed. Especially species that have zero ergine alkaloids. Although, ergine can do this, too. However, large amounts would need to be taken. Interesting nonetheless.



That is very intriguing! One must perturb the thought if they used both Ilex and Ipomoea together to form a synergy of some kind? And of which Ipomoea species? That is the most curious question. Being that there exists at least several or more(?) different species with known alkaloid contents such as ergine.

Tobacco Use: Ipomoea sp. seeds.. which is only a general term, which can range from any type of morning glory plant. Or am I missing something?


Quality information, thanks for the update!

I think it's interesting that these different places are so spread out. This could suggest wide use of morning glories in North America. Of course I could be wrong.
And the ilex and ipomoea thing sounds very interesting. Going to collect some yaupon and try this out.

I don't think you're missing anything, I just couldn't remember exactly the species, I don't think they do either as they had sprouted.

Also the image on the pottery from Louisiana looks similar to mesoamerican pottery art I've seen.

It certainly is a possibility. I would suggest exerting care when combining plant stimulants with ergine alkaloids due to the vasoconstriction of both plants. Considering 'vomitoria' can induce strong vomiting; which is why natives would use it for purification.. the unpleasantness may in sue. Do report!

Yes, the heart shaped leaf is of interest. Do you think Northern Natives were in contact with Meso-Americans in regards to seed trading or pottery?

Also, my Turbina seeds are now here. Such profoundness surrounding their shape and texture. I feel an experience with the seeds prior to growing will be helpful to understanding this sacred plant ally.

I was under the impression that caffiene is a vasodiatator.

Northern Indians were at least in indirect contact, they grew maize, which came from further south. Also, they all used Mapacho tobacco.

The seeds are perfect tear drops arnt they? I took 30 when I recieved mine. Subtle but very clean. I wish I would've took harmalas with them. I have about 30 left and just completed a manske of 120 g of harmal.

Yes, you are correct. I suppose I was just coming from the idea of mixing xanthines with ergine.. all should be well, though. Theobromine is a vasodilator that smooths oxygen to brain and muscles, resembling very similar attributes of caffine, paraxanthine and theophylline.

Indeed.. mapacho was apart, and still is apart of purification rituals.. such as the ayahuasca ceremony.. blowing and healing with sacred tobacco is an asset and has been for millennia. The protection tobacco offers is quite powerful.

Would you consider 30 olo seeds a threshold? From what I've read, ergine and harmalas goes quite well in enhancing the experience and duration.

It was a threshold dose for me. I've read of people having powerful experiences on 30 and others who felt nothing.
Egoline and harmalas are incredible together in my experience, although for me these very powerful effects are hit and miss. I've had experiences that rival oral dmt on this combo, yet different. Very visual with impossible geometry and such just like aya.

I should note as well that this combo is very medicinal and healing. It taught me the value of purging.