Hey Peeps

Hoping a medical person can give me some help, I am on an antidepressant called Mirtazipine (Remeron) - it is not an SSRI, its described as Tetracyclic antidepressant (TeCA).

Is this one I am best to steer clear of harmalas with, or do I not need to be concerned? If I do need to be concerned then I'm guessing that stop meds for a few days and will then be ok with harmalas?

Hoping someone out there can help

Kate xx

Corpus Callosum is the ideal person to answer you this question. If you don't have an answer here within a week, you can try PMing him.

Be well

I have an idea, try asking a medical professional for medical advice rather than an internet drug forum. Dude, really.

It would be unsafe to use an MAOI (Harmalas, Caapi, etc) while using that medication.

Your medication inhibits the re-uptake of neurotransmitters, thereby increasing the synaptic concentration of these neurotransmitters.

By inhibiting MAO you are additionally not allowing these same neurotransmitters to be processed by your body, leading to even higher concentrations.

In short;
Your medication (Mirtazipine) increases neurotransmitters and decreases re-uptake of them,
Inhibiting MAO with Harmalas or anyother MAOI would lead to possibly dangerous levels of various neurotransmitters (Serotonin, NE, Dopamine, etc).

In super short :
Don't take MAOI's with that medicine.

Just out of curiosity,
What is your doctor prescribing that for, and how long have you been taking that?
You can PM me if you don't feel comfortable answering publicly, or you can not answer at all if you don't feel comfortable I understand

The advice re mirtazapine and MAOIs is not to start mirtazapine until 2 weeks after ceasing MAOIs and not to start MAOIs for 2 weeks after ceasing mirtazapine; specific mention is made of the RIMA moclobemide which may be used one week after stopping mirtazapine. This is the advice in the British National Formulary so ,in order to be as safe as possible, I would suggest a 2 week window between use of harmalas and ceasing mirtazapine.

Its also important to consider if actually stopping a prescribed treatment is wise but this would really require fuller knowledge of any individual case.

lsDxMdmaddicThc & corpus callosum

Thank you both, so regardless of whether or not my meds are not considered an SSRI I should still think about staying clear of MAOI's while I am on anti-depressants - and basically give MAOI's a wide berth of a couple of weeks before taking them. So out of curiosity if we are talking about serotonin I have used MDMA quite alot without any negative reaction, is this also something I should be reconsidering?

I'm quite ok to talk about it, its not real secret, but I am on this medication for long term depression, anxiety and insomnia , basically been on the meds for the last two years but symptoms have been there for the last 20. I've been through alot of therapy over the last couple of years which I think will be ongoing, however the psychological condition I deal with wouldn't be one which would be considered to cause serious risk to myself or other people, but that condition is not really something I want to discuss, lets just say I have a lid on it and am in control of that side of my life.

So… …I'm really at the beginning of my voyage having used DMT once before, which retrospectively I think was enhanced leaf, therefore would I'm taking it I would be better off using enhanced leaf rather than changa - and essentially keep changa for those special moments?

Kate xx

Thanks again everyone for being so helpful (well those who were able to reply with something useful…)


On another note, lsDxMdmaddicThc - I do have your PM but I am unable to reply at the moment since I can only PM moderators and not able to reply to anyone else

Kate
xx

Mirtazapine is not an SSRI so it wouldnt block reuptake of serotonin etc.
Its pharmacodynamics resemble more those of an atypical antipsychotics without much dopamine antagonism, it is a serotonin receptor antagonist and much of its antidepressant effects could come by the antagonism of 5-HT2C receptor, that when is activated produces anxiety, depression and anhedonia.

It however also antagonizes the Alpha-2A adrenergic autoreceptor in a manner similar to yohimbine, i.e. it tricks your body that there is not much (nor)adrenaline so it stimulates its release.

So if you want to mix it with harmala alkaloids i suggest you NOT to do it, cause even if there is no risk of serotonin syndrome, Mirtazapine elevates the levels of noradrenaline, which is metabolized by MAO-A so potentially precipitating an hypertensive crysis because of TOO MUCH NORADRENALINE!!!

Hope this helps!


Blessings!

Hi ektor

Many thanks, basically speaking that for one reason or another whether an anti-depressant is or not an SSRI then any sort of MAOI is best avoided.

Kate
xx

I'm sorry for the misinformation, ektor is right;

It doesn't inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, but it is still dangerous to combine with an MAOI for reasons already stated.

I would avoid taking MDMA with it, just in case.

Save the changa. Stick with DMT

All

Fabulous, well not that fabulous since I am not able to use MAOI - therefore will need to plan my usage wisely and give meds a break if I am going to use it. However glad I asked the question and thankful there are people around who are so knowledgable

So what is the best way to administer DMT outside of changa?

Kate
xx

What 'tools' do you have access to?

Enhanced leaf is user-friendly, but the GVG is perfect for vaporising neat freebase DMT.

Well, MAOIs can act as antidepressants...
Talk to you doctor and see what he thinks of you trying herbal remedy?

Just a suggestion (I'm biased against pharmaceutical anti-depressants, so yeah)

And you can vaporize DMT.
Corpus Callosum is right, enhanced leaf is very nice.
Just don't use too much leaf.
Also use something that is smooth and pleasant to smoke.
(experiment with different leaves before making enhanced leaf)

Hey Corpus

Well at the moment, not much, I gave up smoking paraphernalia years ago as I don't smoke weed these days very often - so in terms of tools I'm up for getting what ever is the best tool on the block. Whats the GVG, a google search only returns goblins vs gnomes, clearly not that

Kate
xx

Hey

Well thats all rather interesting, I will defo talk to my doctor about that, although part of the reason I'm on this drug is as well as anxiety and depression I'm also an insomniac and this drug does very well to help me sleep. so with that being said I will also need to investigate herbal sleeping aids, and weed doesn't cut the mustard on that front.
I'm open to not being on pharma meds but I have to have something which is right.

I have some mullein and peppermint leaf so will make a bong tonight and have a play with those

Kate
xx

The GVG:

http://www.vaporgenie.co...g-vaporizer#.VK2Hr-mzVLM

If your budget can extend this far then its a solid investment which, for me, has changed my relationship with freebase DMT completely. The DMT-Nexus has a reputation for praising this tool repeatedly and theres a bloody good reason why its eulogised in this way.

Wow - thats not a cheap piece of glassware and would meant putting a gorgeous pair of shoes I've been saving myself for
I'm quite happy to pay for quality although is it possible to quantify why the GVG is a cut above the rest?

Kate
xx

The GVG vaporizes the substance without burning it, it works with convection, hot air, not conduction (like hot glass), and the ceramic filter in the top piece prevents any flame from touching the goodies, so the DMT doesnt get destroyed by excess heat. The air flow from the GVG works well to cool down the vapor so that it enters very smoothly on the lungs, as opposed to burnt-plastic smoke from many other methods.

That being said, there are other cheaper convection-based alternatives that have sprung up here in the nexus which might be comparable, though I personally never tried. For example:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=56074

KateAdam, what is your previous experience with psychedelic substances? What setting were you considering consuming DMT? Would you have a sitter? How well have you researched this? Do check the health and safety section if you haven't yet. Some may be basic but there's a lot of very good tips in there.

Appart from pharmacological risks which you have asked about, there are always potential psychological issues which are part of the inherent risk of psychedelics. This can generally be controlled taking care of dosage, set and setting. When we are talking about people with previous mental difficulties, as is your case, this increases the stakes. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it... Who knows, psychedelics have been known to help people out of negative mental states and depressions before (google scholar: psychedelics depression , im sure you'll find quite some things), but this isn't guaranteed and it's important to recognize the risks and to think your decision through.

If you do decide to go through it, best of luck, and let us know how it goes. Be well!

Hey Endlessness

Personally would rather go for something better rather than a cheaper alternative, buy cheap buy twice after all… …i think its one of those things that if I went for the cheaper option I would always regret not spending the money. So to use it with freebase DMT I take it, just load up with a bit of ash and add spice to the top of it - guess it takes enhanced leaf quite happily as well?

I do really your concern honey, although I've had plenty of past experience with psychedelics in the past in that I used LSD goodness knows how many occasions when I was a teenager. Over the years since I've had a fair share mushroom trips, two or three times a year on average - sometimes less sometimes more but always grown my own mushrooms.
With respect of DMT though, been wanting to do it for years and then last september some friends produced some after a day out and it was everything I expected and more. Their source has dried up for reasons that its not my place to go in to so I've taken matters in to my own hands and done my own extraction (Cybs salt tek).
So what am I hoping to achieve with my ventures in to DMT, well in truth I'm a lost soul, I want a career change but I don't know what, I'm single and am jaded from past relationships so reluctant to get involved with anyone else and I'm 40 this year so biologically speaking i've pretty much missed that boat. I'm at a point in life where I'm doing some soul-searching. I understand that DMT can't magically provide answers to everything and also that it might provide answers to things I didn't even realise were an issue.

I do fully subscribe to the fact though that psychedelics can offer good things for psychological issues, after a mushroom trip I always feel like my mind has been reset, more creative and completely cognisant in a way I don't normally function.

Kate
xx