8. Follow-Up and Actual Final Thoughts

This was a bad idea. It's an understatement to say that writing about this hasn't been healthy for me, but maybe it wouldn't have made a difference one way or another. Kindly ignore the section on my "recovery"; that was but a cruel joke. It's starting all over again, and it's so much worse than I expected. My "guides" have effectively been sacked, but that's little comfort when management steps in to work the newly vacant shifts. The torment is practically automated at this point, perfectly optimized for my cognitive hardware and dragging me into oblivion with algorithmic efficiency. The program is rebooting, a fractal chasm in my mind yawning and rippling open wider and wider with every recursion, and I shudder to imagine what is pushing its way through. An eager host of burning eyes and serrated grins and flensing blades await me at every turn, and I now believe at least part of what they've been telling me all along: I am damned, and perhaps always have been.

I don't have anything close to the time, sanity, or willpower to write about the rest of what I've seen; what I've written so far would be a mere preface to everything else I've been through. My experiences may be rare, but not in any way unique. Ever hear stories about the "fried" hippies from the 60s, or know someone who went on a voyage that they never really "came back" from? Yeah, there's a reason for that, and I'm sure I'll soon be joining them. Most people who have been where I've recently been tend not to have the chance to write about it, and maybe that's for the best. Ignorance is bliss, and there's not enough Xanax in the whole 'verse for this ****.

If I sound bitter, it's because I am. Tact and time are luxuries I no longer have much of, so allow me to revise my stance a bit and cut to the chase. For those of you who think that there are no consequences to all this, that's it's harmless for an ant to play around in a den of dragons, that anything that could possibly come your way in these realms is mere subjectivity that can be waved away with the magic wand of your detached enlightenment: risk the consequences of your own arrogance if you must, but please don't lead others astray. You suburban shamans have no idea what you're toying around with, and less idea of the influence you wield over others.

For every self-proclaimed battle-hardened veteran, there are a thousand even more catastrophically naive, impressionable little wannabees out there who read these awe-inspiring stories with wide-eyed wonder and start to get the idea that they too can play amongst the gods, that all they have to do is take some magic space drugs, say a few prayers, and keep a positive attitude. What a ****ing joke. We're at the bottom of the food chain, folks. Do you have any idea how hilarious all of this is to the things out there watching us? And to the things watching them watch us? It's like watching a monkey play with a spaceship. No, it is watching a monkey play with a spaceship. "That one thinks she's channeling the Pleiadians again! How adorable. Hey, this one's been laying on the afterburner for way too long, this should be good. Call the dogs to clean up the mess, will you? Ooh, that one found the timeline consolidation button, too bad it never came out of beta. Pass the popcorn, please."

For the more experienced among you who are convinced that this isn't the case, prove it to yourself. You should have the means to reliably induce ego death and, with sufficient practice, enter that ultimate goal of hippie mythology, "becoming one with the universe." First, that is not what is happening, and you are not "becoming" anything. Second, you do have some control over this state, so use it. Take a good, hard look at what is happening closest to our plane of existence, and work your way up from there if you so desire. Look at those silly little barely-housebroken primates beneath you, and their relation to everything else around them. In that moment, it will seem as if all is as it should be, everything that is happening is simply the natural order of things. It can't be subjectively labeled as this or that, it simply is. But the real revelation comes not during the experience itself, but during integration. In your moment of ascension, your perspective is not your own, this perspective is as much a fabrication as yours is, and you are not the little godling that you think you are. In that moment, your awareness has not ascended; it has been absorbed.

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At the risk of sounding like a Gothic cliche, I'd like to share this relevant bit of Poe with you:



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I'll leave you with just a few final thoughts. I wrote all of this under the assumption that most of you are not materialists. It's kind of hard to be after dancing with Dmitri, after all. For those of you who are, most of this writing about higher states of consciousness and otherworldly beings will sound like madness, and you likely interpret any drug experience as purely neurological in nature. That's perfectly reasonable, and in the absence of firsthand experience or more convincing empirical evidence, this is probably the most rational way to interpret things. Good on you; that scientific attitude and cautious skepticism will at least serve you better than my Darwin Award-winning gullibility served me. That doesn't change my message, though. Ignoring all of my interpretations of what's going on, I hope that you can still accept the following:

1) My experiences were, to put it mildly, subjectively bad. Given the option of repeating all of my experiences (which apparently I'm about to, and oh so much more) and undergoing a continuous year of unanesthetized surgery, I would choose the latter without hesitation. I may or may not be delusional, but that's a moot point. Any sentient being, regardless of whatever Ramana Maharshi-like detachment they fancy themselves to possess, would likewise not want to experience these things if they knew what they were like.

2) The consequences I'm suffering now are partially the result of stupid mistakes I've made, but equally the result of random or unfathomable factors that cannot be reliably predicted or mitigated. If you can prove otherwise, I eagerly await your world-shattering doctoral thesis on the subject. The magnitude of these consequences (hint: it doesn't just affect the experiencer) is great enough to render their perceived rarity irrelevant.

3) The most active and vocal members here represent some of the most experienced, and best equipped to deal with these these things (outside of indigenous cultures with millenia of experience, and even they barely knew what they were doing). This is not representative, and most people who use psychedelics exercise less caution and balance than I did, and are much less able to handle these things than you are.

Therefore: learn from my mistakes, don't do what I did, and don't encourage newbies to do what you do.

Best of luck to you all. Kids, don't do drugs, don't talk to strangers, look both ways before crossing the road, and, to appropriate an old Shadowrun aphorism, never, never deal with a dragon. And if, in your journeys, you stretch out into the great beyond and happen to witness the 'Elvis sighting' of hyperspace, that fractalline, mandalic specter of the late great Terence McKenna dancing behind closed eyelids, give that old cosmic bard the one-finger salute for me, will you?


Peace out,
J. Sørensen aka NGC_2264

It is you. There is no need for this. Let's also not belittle the ants...

There are many important lessons to be learned from this thread. Many more than I am going to list, and i'm going to try my best not be condescending.

First, don't look outside yourself for answers. And whatever ''answers'' come from inside yourself must be thoroughly analysed. (It's taken me almost 15 years of internal work every day, sometimes all day, countless horrendous experiences, and so many wrong turns and wrong ideas/visions to get to where I am today. And only over the last 3 months have I finally started to ''get it'', to UNDER STAND my place, and to even begin to UNDER STAND the mystery of what life actually is. And this is just the ''beginning'', there is no end. The way out, is IN ) We plant 1,000,000 weeds in our attempt to grow THE flower.

Don't let anything inside of you....OP obviously got tricked into letting these things inside, or at least have direct access to different levels of his being. Now the fun begins....getting rid of them.

Careful what you wish for. Desires will lead us astray, especially impure desires.

Drugs only catalyse what is already inside of you. Again, it depends on what you desire. In my early years of using DMT i was quite reckless with its use, and definitely paid for it, but my intentions have almost always been to make myself a better person, to be able to live more in harmony with nature. To learn how to not hurt anything. I've had some horrible experiences with Dmt and without, but i've come to understand why i needed to have those experiences. If you want, Dmt will help bring an awareness of all that is going on inside our emotional/physical/intellectual, and spiritual bodies. The lessons can be hellish, or heavenly, it just depends on what you need.

NGC_2264, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you are able to find balance and harmony in your life, and I respect that you have taken the time to come on the nexus and document your rough experiences.

We all have different obstacles to remove on our path back home, ideally not adding any more major ones.

What about making an appointment with a psychiatrist today and ask for advice? Sounds to me like you need antipsychotic drugs.

Look up ICD-10 F16.5 Mental and behavioural disorders due to use of hallucinogens


Get well soon!

I think that telling someone that is convinced that what he is experiencing is real to go to a psychiatrist because he's delusional isn't a very good idea IMO, it's like completely ignoring what he said and giving no value to his ideas.

NGC_2264, there are very experiencied people that have been very very deep into the "other world" and have hundreds of years of experience that can give you a helping hand, these people are not easy to find but I'm pretty sure they will know how to fix your situation. I'm talking about a Wirrárica (huichol) ceremony, these ceremonies are lead by a Marakame (a living dead) and the medicine used is Peyote followed by a Temazcal (when sun rises after the ceremony), the temazcal is incredibly powerful and is complimentary to the first part even though no medicine is used there.

I'm telling you these guys know what they are doing, I've seen what they can do and also know what they have to go through to achieve the Marakame status and I really don't know how they can survive that (maybe that's why they are called living dead). They know how to go deep in there and heal.

Anyway I hope you can find peace and if you come across a Marakame you will know it's the right person because they will not ask for a money quota (whatever you want to give after the ceremony), please be safe and don't lose hope.

Well, I hope things smooth over for you. I wouldn't do anything else to increase the fear or anxiety surrounding your situation.

it may not be preferred, but it may help to become a materialist for a few months. Take whatever means necessary to separate this phenomena from yourself. Detach from the idea of higher consciousness and awareness that exists elsewhere - and find joy in the present, here. I realize this may not be easy, or desired, but it may allow time for some wounds to heal.

Many of us have experienced the polarities of hyperspace - there are many different beings doing many different things - same as humans.

Perhaps the manipulation has nothing to do with these entities, but stems from our own expectations... and the suggestions of others. We hear many suggest the benefits of exploring the unknown. There are risks, but we often EXPECT benefit.

At first many of my experiences were light and happy, though they hinted that it isn't always so. Then the other side surfaced. Now, it's a flip of a coin. Sometimes it's a happy carnival ride, some times it is "dark." I come out of both laughing my ass off. Laugh cause it was fun and exciting; laugh because it is scary and exciting.

^^^ I agree completely. If you are going to seek help, look for it from someone who can actually understands what is going on, and will help. A psychologist has no idea whats going on and will prescribe drugs that will make the problem worse in the long run by masking the symptoms and ignoring the cause. And you might even get institutionalised if they think you are a danger to yourself or others...and if you have kids, a family, they might try to break the family up.

To take a little of the edge off, valerian root will help.

But in the end, the root cause of the situation must be found and only when the root is removed will it stop growing. And often, like attracts like, so if I were you I would put forth lots of effort in scanning your own personality, desires, past history...literally everything about yourself. Try to dig deep into your unconscious and analyse all your habits. It may take some time, but I would imagine that you will find some correlations and answers. In the end, all this needs to be done anyways, even if it weren't such a pressing issue.

In my life I have unconsciously pushed myself to the limit on multiple occasions...2 major ones being a long term, EXTREME depression, and some pretty serious long term substance abuse issues. Both of these became so unbearable that there was no other way but for me to confront them and deal with them. It took some time, and was a hell of a struggle(literally), but I made it through and my quality of life is amazing, partly due to some other perceptual adjustments. But my point being, sometimes it takes a really really horrible experience or experiences to push us to the point to be willing to change our chaotic unharmonious ways. As the old saying goes, If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger!!!!!!!!!!

Rise up and Conquer. When you realize what you are at your foundation, the only obstacle in your path is yourself.

NGC_2264, my heart goes out to you. I really can't imagine what it must be like for you.

This sort of phenomenon never ceases to fascinate and perplex me. And it can happen with or without the facilitation of exogenous substances. Chemical imbalance? Long dark night of the soul? Cosmic flatulence? I dunno.

A couple things have occurred to me about NGC_2264's posts...

1) He seems very wrapped up in the story of it. It reads like this saga which on the surface appears to be a warning to us. But if you read between the lines, it's not so much about helping us... rather it's about trying to get us invested in his story, and thus validate it. In turn, this gives the story even more power over him... lending credibility to his role as a victim. IMHO.


2) Did you notice that over the course of his eight part mini-series, not once (that I saw) did he ask for help with his ordeal? Not from us. And not from anyone on this plane of existence. He talks a lot about trusting and not trusting his "guides". But conspicuously absent is any mention of seeking assistance or guidance from people here on Earth. And while he has considered the thoughts and opinions of others who have posted on this thread, it has appeared to me to have been a dispassionate and disingenuous intellectual exercise to show how "open" he is to seeing things differently. I don't buy it. To me, it's about him and the story.

IMO, we create the world with our stories. And good or bad, biochemical or spiritual, we ALWAYS get something out of it... some kind of payoff.

NGC_2264 gets to be a victim of cosmic proportions. And just like that, he's off the hook for being responsible for anything. Why? I dunno. But in my mind, there's no integrity in that approach. "...but hyper-dimensional terrorists!"

I don't mean to be flip or uncompassionate here. I recognize there may very well be serious health/mental issues at play for NGC_2264. But no one can help him unless he, with a genuine humility, reaches out and asks for it. The road ahead may be rough, but that's the first step.

Furthermore, many people read these forums looking for guidance. Those folks need to know that, while a deep respect and caution is needed with these experiences, there is a balanced way to approach the mystery. I almost think there should be a disclaimer at the beginning of this thread.

MUCH LOVE to you all!

I agree with the advice to become a materialist for a few months.
There's nothing wrong with that.

The power is in what we choose to believe.

I suggest Changing the narrative asap.
It is possible to do this.

Sanity is a very high value item in my book.

I will try to invest some time to read the ops posts but atm i am enveloped in 3rdi's book. Given this i feel i shouldn't make any statements about this thread, but im going to anyways. I only briefly scanned through the op and read the replys.

I agree with pretty much all of rootsies post. From what i have read it seems like op is completely convinced in the realness of his experiences. Sure i wasnt there but that only goes as far as the sensations you experience and not the belief aspect. I have had experiences that shook me to the core and were almost impossible to simply shrug off as hocus pokus or chemical happenings. I have had amazing positive experiences that seemed like tragedy if i categorized them as anything but a real experience in a far off land. When i reached the source it destroyed me in the real life. Challenged everything i have ever thought and made me question the likely hood that this could be anything BUT real.

This kind of thinking is dangerous when dealing with traumatic and negative experiences. Your only afraid of the dark if you believe there might be something out there. This i have experience in. Believing too much will have consequences if you believe what you experienced is real and can be solidified if you continue dosing with this mindset. Taking breaks when "the shit hits the fan" is imo the most important thing you can do when using psychedelics.

Please correct me if i seem to be making assumptions about op.

Excellent read op kinda dissapointed the way it ended, well the last part, part 8, was hoping it was all over and you were on the road to recovery. People saying take a break is pointless he already said he will probably never take another thing in his life and it's happening in his sleep anyway, cant take a break from that. Also people cant say to someone its not real when they believe it as and it actually could be!

In regards to the medical advice thing, western medicine doesn't consider spiritual crises so if it is real then a shamen could help. Doesnt have to be a shamen involving ayahuasca or the like. I was told by a psychic I have been implanted many times in hyperspace, like his succubi ones, beautiful pixies but werent what they seemed and were feeding on me. I was to ask the earth angels to remove them and cleanse me as theses implants, of which there were many I had forgotten about in hyperspace, were used to control/track me when I entered hyperspace and disrupt my auric field and create other negative things, this was all usually from benevolent things.

I know most here are materialist atheists and will scoff at such happenings but maybe reiki, and healer new ages types could help, things like crystals etc. for grounding. Theres a good book called practical psychic self defense by Robert Bruce these things are worth a try, his descriptions of astral planes are very similiar to the op's especially their illusory nature and their lack of real power.

People saying its this or that quoting intangible hindu stuff imo is irrelevant to his experience no one knows 100%, what if it is real and this is happening, no ones knows despite their intellect.

The point someone made of him not asking for help was telling, why not?? first thing id be trying to do. Great read and Im sure he could find help to fix these things if it is real, if its not then its obvious steps, the delusions of grandeur is telling but I dont doubt such things happen.

Its funny edgar allan poe was posted, hes appeared a few times in my reading recently. I read about his death and hes running around hallucinating incoherent and then he died something like that, anyway lets hope such things doesnt happen with the OP.

Hope you post an update OP ( forget the name cant see) and how you recovered rather than a last post of were all doomed ala joe bono. all the best

Well put Rootsie. I had similar feelings while reading the well written story, and follow up posts.


If one jumps from a cliff into water and hurts themself. Then tells everyone never to jump from that cliff, least they hurt themselves as well. It doesn't mean the cliff is safe or dangerous. One person approached it, in a way that hurt them. Others may not. My heart goes out to you NGC. Thank you for the warning.

what is the issue , just beat the entities , beat them till they are senseless

also catch their ears and twist them

teach the entities a lesson for messing around

The thing i don"t understand about evil entities is that, if they super advanced and hyper powerful and we are just ants in comparison, why do they bother with such base and primitive activities as trying to upset and mentally torture us? If we are just stupid meat monkeys why do they bother with us at all?

Also, the only time i have come across anything that could be described as malignant was when i wasn"t in a particularly good headspace to be doing DMT in the first place. If there are really real evil entities, surely they wouldn"t care about set and setting. They would be more likely to pick on someone who had a good set and setting in order to do their heads in even more.

Didn"t the OP encounter a lot of these happenings in dreams? Dreams are just dreams arn"t they? I had a dream the other night that i had herpes but when i woke up there was no herpes.

I am sorry to be all materialistic and i wish the OP all the best (and i enjoyed the story).

If someone lost a grip on their halāhala poison, there is supposed to be one plant and she helps *'control' it?

* before one becomes successful, one may face many odds in life...

Like ymer said, if it seems to be starting up again seek help. Like spiritual help. Go find a shaman, spend some time at a Buddhist monastery, talk to a priest, whatever.

I think plain and simple you are a good example of psychedelic (substance) abuse.

Crazy read though, good luck.

“The only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life: your memories, your attachments. They burn 'em all away. But they're not punishing you,' he said. 'They're freeing your soul. If your frightened of dying, and your holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. If you've made your peace then the devils are really angels freeing you from the earth.”
― Bruce Joel Rubin, Jacob's Ladder

When I was younger (So much younger than) so much younger than today
(I never needed) I never needed anybody's help in any way
(Now) But now these days are gone (These days are gone), I'm not so self assured
(I know I've found) Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors
- The Beatles

Best of luck OP. Hope you find the peace of mind you're looking for.

Hello NGC_2264 and all others reading this!

I have read about your fascinating, but tragic experience. Be assured, this was not in vain. Even though you are suffering a recurrence of what psychologists might call “anxiety disorder”, “depression” and “psychotic disorder”, I thank you very much for writing up your story! Many people will be warned by your elaborate posts, and maybe this is one of the reasons why the demons are so harsh on you now? Except for the fact that they are pure evil and just enjoy tormenting people.

My own story, albeit not so deep and profound, does resonate very strongly with your experience! I, too, started lucid dreaming, astral projection and psychedelics to pursue the enlightenment, whatever it might be. I also started noticing, that all sorts of psychedelics and dreams have much in common, basically leading to the same place/dimension, which I called the Spirit World. A way too beautiful name, given its true nature.

At first I, too, thought that I have found the Holy Grail. My interactions with the Spirit World, and its inhabitants, gave meaning to my existence. I felt exalted, energetic, and happy about it. I thought I found my real purpose in life, which is to communicate with those beings, and let other people share in their knowledge, to become a shaman. I really started to believe that I am destined to become a spiritual leader, an important person, heavily inflating my ego.

It happened, that I was indeed quite talented in hearing and talking with voices. Since my young childhood I talk a lot to myself “in my head”, and I became highly skilled in “splitting” my mind (for a lack of a better term) to be able to converse in such a way. You can imagine, NGC_2264, that this proved to be of big worth when talking to spirits during my adulthood. At first, I couldn't believe that there is somebody on the other end of the line, but in time I realized that there is. Big thanks (no irony) to DMT for that.

In time, I did learn, too, that it was one big masquerade. All of the entities, without any exception, are working for the same big boss (the devil). All aliens, ascended masters, gods, spirits and what not, are demons in disguise. They do play good cop/bad cop a lot, making up imaginary threats, against which they “protect” me. None of those entities is to be trusted, the same goes for their so called “knowledge”. They don't provide any real, independently verifiable knowledge, and why should they? But they are very adept at creating an illusion as if you are touching some divine, otherworldly knowledge. You know, when you get the “aha” and “now I get it” feeling, without getting anything specific, just an overwhelming feeling of “finally getting it”. I am, in hindsight, totally perplexed by how they pulled this trick time and again on me.

I am not going to hijack NGC_2264's topic by telling my story in full detail: how I saw the demons for what they are, or how I started battling them. Sufficient to say, and maybe it will work for others as well, that I have found my solace in Jesus Christ. I am serving as a lector in Russian Orthodox Church now, aspiring to become a priest once. Yes, this sounds like a very drastic way of dealing with one's troubles. Taking some rest, meditation or going full-on materialistic looks like a less costly way, but I went too far to be able to fool myself with stuff like that. So, if you, like me, have hit the ground when your whole inner world consists of constant battles with demons – try turning your eyes to Jesus Christ. He helped me, maybe He can help you too?

Greetings!