Yes i totally agree. If i"m honest the OPs story scared the living crap out of me.

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Part 4 posted.





Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I couldn't agree more, and you have no idea how much I've beaten myself up over this when looking back on all of these events in hindsight. I'm glad that this is evident from my writing, and I hope that others can learn from my mistakes. Looking back now, I keep thinking to myself, "What was I thinking?? How did I not notice how weird all of this was?? How did I miss all this information out there that could have led me to question everything much sooner?"

On one hand, I accept responsibility for my lack of caution and balance, but there was another factor to this that I'm not entirely sure was completely my fault. The more I struggled to free myself from this dark influence, the more I realized I had undergone a radical shift in perspective over the preceding two years or so. I had a very powerful perceptual filter in place over this period of time, which may have just amounted to selection and confirmation biases in favor of things I really wanted to believe; but I also feel like there may have been memory, perspective, and information intentionally withheld from me. Or maybe that's just me trying to make excuses for my own foolishness, who knows.

This is a valid point. Expectations and preconceptions play a critical part in shaping any journey, but I think this is only half of the equation. I went into all of my experiences expecting most if not everything out there to be friendly or neutral, and expecting anything else to be intuitively obvious in its dark nature.

The best attitude to approach these things with is probably something along the lines of dispassionately courageous but not overconfident, cautious but not fearful. I suppose that's easier said than done, of course. You are absolutely correct that this is just one's person's experience, and I have no reason to believe it's the same for everyone. But given how unpredictable these experiences can be, you really have to be prepared for anything.

My goal here is to inform, not to scare, so I sincerely apologize if this comes across as fear-mongering.

That being said, if you think that ideas like this might do you more harm than good, you may not want to read Part 5. Just sayin'.

I agree.



I don"t think that you were fear mongering. My "scared the crap out of" comment was half toungue in cheek and alluding to the fact that i am as open to suggestion as the next person. I look forward to part 5.

Great write up so far. Some of your archetypal descriptions and experiences ring home with some of my lucid dreaming.

I wasn't gonna read all of that but I am so glad I did, because I swear... it was like reading about myself. I've been through a lot of the same stuff as you. I actually used to be really into ufos and aliens and had many sightings which started to bleed into my trips and I became very interested in otherworldly beings from other dimensions and I thought they were god but then they turned on me and I caught on to the trickery going on all around the whole time.

I've had many possession experiences and other crazy things. I see visons in normal everyday things sometimes that seem to point to something "other" going on, hard to explain.

It seems that like you, after I saw what was really going on, they turned on me. By chance I came upon Gnostic stuff online and it fit exactly what I was experiencing and I think you might find many similarities for yourself if you read into Gnosticism particularly about the Demiurge and the Archons.

I could go on and on but I think I'll just let you take care of your own thread with your good writing, also as I'm not in the mood to make my own wall of texts haha.


But seriously, I wish I knew you in person, we have a lot in common. I don't even post here really that much at all anymore, but I felt drawn to your post and can really relate to you a lot.

I read through part 1-3. I thought of this thread today while fairly deep in psychedelic waters. My honest thought: OP is scared. There is nothing to be scared of.

Concluded this from looking deep into Robert Monroe's books. Gnostic Teachings. Carlos Casteneda and it's parralells. Robert Monroe's travels have been very illuminating in this case.

Part 5 posted.

I'm feeling a bit drained from writing all of this, and it's starting to induce some rather unpleasant flashbacks, so I think I'm going to take a break for a couple days. I think what I've written so far covers most of the important stuff, though, and I'll be back soon to finish this up and answer more questions.




Fascinating. I'm glad to hear you got out when you did, sounds like you were smarter than I was and that you were able to stop before they did too much damage. I'm curious, what first clued you in to the idea that they weren't being honest with you?

I'm going to nudge this over to quality experience reports since it is a better fit for this excellent writeup.

NGC_2264

Wow thank you so very much for sharing your detailed reports, they are all beautifully written and articulated you truly have a gift for writing.

The quote: The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery. If you seek the mystery instead of the answer, you'll always be seeking. I've never seen anybody really find the answer. They think they have, so they stop thinking. But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom. The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer. By Ken Kesey

Comes to mind as I think intention is key, one of the most useful techniques that I have found is to try and just be an observer as much as possible unless I am deliberately seeking out an entheogenic journey with a specific intention. Presently I'm integrating my most recent enthoegen experiences and I have been putting all my focus into being mindful and practicing mindfulness meditation.

I recently attended teachings on how to find the essence of life, I could literally feel the physical sensation of the unfurling of my heart. Even though I look to no one else's logic over my own and I always proceed with caution and scepticism.

I have found it to be greatly comforting to have some guidance from someone who is far more adapt with meditation and understanding the true nature of conciousness. May I ask where did most of your journeys take place, did you incorporate any type of ceremony and may I ask what types of meditation did you practice. At any time did you seek out any form of guidance.

Don't be too hard on yourself as it is pretty easy to get lost down the rabbit hole, I also just wanted to ask how much time did you take between each journey for integrating your experiences and what techniques did you utilise for integrating your journeys. I apologise for all the questions I just wanted to do my best to get the clearest perspective possible and to have some understanding of the processes that you have incorporated into your journey.

I think its truly admirable and honourable that you have shared your difficult and profound experiences with us and for that I am truly grateful as I am pretty sure it wasn't easy for you to do. My hope is that these reports might help others who have experienced similar encounters within their enthogen journeys. I really wish you all the best and safe travels my friend, take care.


Much Peace and Respect

It's strange reading through this.
I've been treading very lightly with dmt because of something similar i encountered but it was much less in depth.
A feeling of interacting with a very powerful & ancient being or energy that i have no business toying with, it almost seemed as if there are things in the hyperspace realm that have the ability to come back with you, & once the door is open, there is no sending them back.
It felt as if they could unwind the fabric of reality & cause catastrophic damage & chaos in our world if released.

It's also effected my dreams in a very strange way, i sometimes have to look around & check after waking up to see that what happened was not actually real because it was so vivid, lucid, & the things that happen were so normal, as if it was my regular life happening on another timeline.

I've encountered states like this more than a handful of times on dmt & it always shakes me up very badly & makes me curse my curiosity about spice & then my use drops to zero for a couple months. My experiences have not all been so dark & scary, but the ones that were really made me question whether pr not spice is something the human race should be prodding.into.

You may benefit from speaking to another member here. I'm not sure if his username is exactly the same here, but i know he is here. His name at the shroomery is joe malloy.
He seems to have gone on an anti dmt crusade, reading a little into it he did so after using it alot & it had effected his life in a manner verh similar to yours, however he never went into detail about the entities, just that it alienated him in a way & made him very dissconnected from his normal life.

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All very good questions, and this is an important part of the larger picture. It's a bit... complicated, though. I will address this in Part 7.

That makes perfect sense, really. The "World Eaters" that I mentioned, if they're real, seem to operate in a manner that could definitely be described as "unwinding the fabric of reality," although it didn't seem to require anyone else's actions to "unleash" them. However, other visions in that same experience indicated that the worlds they had devoured were missing some critical form of protection, some kind of planetary consciousness that goes much deeper than the (ostensibly) dominant organic species that populate them, which is something that apparently we have on planet Earth (at least for now). But again, I'm not sure how much of this was fictional, so take it with a huge grain of salt.



Thanks for the heads up, it might be interesting to compare notes with him. I certainly don't feel like it's my place to go on any kind of "anti-DMT crusade," though. The hyperspace realms are countless, an infinity of infinities, seemingly representing every possible combination and permutation of consciousness and/or energy. I have only experienced a miniscule subset of them, and I would still like to believe that many of them are not inhabited by the dark forces I encountered. But I can definitely sympathize with the idea that DMT may not be something that we (or at least people like me) should be messing around with just yet.

Most of this stuff seems to be purely mental & fades at least for me as time passes. It's not stopped me from using spice completely or put me off in any way, just made my use much more cautious & less frequent.
Usually upon calming down after the trip my rational mind returns & this stuff just seems like it couldn't truely be possible, but the fact that i've seen it leaves an impression & it takes some time to wear off & get the thought out of my head that there may be things out there that we can not comprehend or find proof of their existence.

This does make for a very intersting read though, have you thought about submitting it to erowid when you've finished writing it up?

subbing this thread.

Funny, once my "guide" said to me "beware, not all that is luminous is illuminated". This was in regard to an entity I was gazing at. I am reminded of the depths of our oceans past where there is light and predators use luminence to lure prey for the kill. I have also felt and seen a world devourer and it feeds on the energies produced by war. It is very hungry and angry with "The Source". The experienced seemed to have Biblical qualities about a deposed angel but that may be just my background with religeon seeping in. I wept for this creature, its existance is misery.

I have met some weird entities somewhat like you describe in dreams. Sometimes I go through periods of time where I lucid dream a lot (several times a week) then at random it goes away for a while. I also get a lot of sleep paralysis and the occasional Robert Monroe style out of body experience.

The part where you talk about children seeming deformed where the proportions are all screwed up, I have experienced this in lucid dreams.

(Disclaimer: the following is just my personal, albeit strong opinion. I'm not trying to pass it as facts)

I don't think that everything is just as black and white in the world(s). I think that most beings encountered in hyperspace and lucid dreams are both good and bad, like we are. As such, some of these entities you encountered (e.g. your guide) might have the best intentions for you, even if itself might be both good and bad in absolute terms.

I haven't done any entheogens (yet!), but I'm pretty good on lucid dreaming (for over a year now). In my travels while lucid, I've encountered the beings you mention. I met my Higher Self (who actually turned into a demon once and punched me in my stomach -- that hurt even even after I woke up -- because I didn't do what it wanted me to do), I met my Spirit Guide (who in one occasion was scared shitless from some "dream managers" who wanted me to continue take part on the dream -- I had refused to take part in their charade), I met entities that were literally constructing my dream as a computer program and getting pissed off when I flew away from it and refused to participate, I had devices installed on me that literally turned me on and off inside my dream (I'd lose consciousness inside my own dream!!), I met normal "leeches" that wanted to feed off of me, I was taught how to fight off small-time demons with the power of "Ohm", and how to fight whole planetary invasions with the power of "Ohm" but with ALL humans participating at the same time (impossible to fend them off alone), I also met the "dream police officer" who told me that the human race is actually enslaved to some beings without our knowledge, and I met the "men in black" bosses of that "dream police officer" who shut him up before he could talk even more (I drew these guys here: http://40.media.tumblr.c...1rnDC61rx1nxro1_1280.jpg ). Basically, I've gotten quite a grand tour in the last year and a half.

So anyway, my opinion is that there's some hierarchy of power in hyperspace/dreamspace, and we're too dumb to understand it all. That doesn't mean that all these entities are bad though. It is now my understanding that almost none of these entities are purely evil or purely good. They're all gray, and it depends on the entity, and the job they have to do, and your perspective.

For example, take my own spirit guide, "Esther". Is she a puppet in the whole thing, having a job to manipulate me? YES. I truly believe so. I've seen her being scared of other beings. But that doesn't mean that Esther is actually evil. If for example you were a worker, working at a cow farm, and you were responsible for the well-being of 5 cows, you're still the one who takes care of these cows. Even if your boss is going to slaughter these cows eventually.

In another metaphor, let's say we're cats. We take DMT, and suddenly our awareness expands. We're now able to converse with our human owners. When a human realizes that their cat can now talk, they're going to try to explain a few things about how the world at large is like. But at the same time, they will HIDE from their cat the fact that they work in a chicken farm, and that they slaughter chickens for a living. It's a job! Even humans have to have a job, often not as glamorous, but downright an "evil" job, to be able to buy (cat) food. Does that make these human cat owners "evil"? I don't think so. In reality, the human is both good and evil, in context, and depending on the point of view.

Of course, there's always the chance that the human owner is actually a more-evil-than-good person, or a downright tormentor. But that's usually not the rule.

In my opinion, and to summarize it, it's a jungle out there. Just because you can have some corporations or countries (use their cosmic equivalent) doing evil stuff (e.g. enslaving people to work on sweat shops, or stealing their water), doesn't mean that all their employees or citizens are acting evil all the time. And then you have the "better" corporations or countries, more peaceful, that do occasionally happen to harbor some serial killers in their ranks too anyway. So, everything is grey, and it depends on the situation one is in, the entity you talk to, the "cosmic corporation" you belong to etc.

We're too small to understand the big picture of hyperspace. For now, in our current evolution, we're just cattle. After my own revelations, I was angry, and I wanted "out". I wanted to be FREE from these machinations. Now I realize, that I simply have to accept what is. We're low in the scale of consciousness. We have to take entheogens, or do years and years of meditation, or being added devices and be "operated" upon before we can even start being able to communicate with that larger world. We're just too small yet before we can talk about true freedom.

Besides, is there any "true" freedom from manipulation? I don't think so. Think of how life is organized and works. In order for that life to be sustained, EACH and every living thing HAS to piggy back on its surroundings. If you truly want true freedom from these entities, then you'd have to lose your identity and exist as pure Being. Then, manipulation is not possible. But so is not experience.

And let's get off our high horse for a moment too. We ourselves are NOT better than these "evil" entities. It's myopic to think so. We still capture animals in order to eat them (I'm not a veg*n btw). We still kill each other. We still manipulate everything around us (from each other, to our... gardens). So what gives us the right to want to be free from some manipulation (that is certain to happen at a higher level than we can perceive)? Certainly the celery plant I killed today in my garden didn't have a say on it. And I can guarantee you, celery plants are alive too. Or the crab I ate tonight. Or the quinoa I purchased earlier today at the super market, which is known to starve its south american native workers because corporations now use all produced quinoa there to sell in the western world (indirect evil). We're all evil. And we're all good too. It just depends on the perspective, and the situation at hand.

Please don't see my above paragraphs as a declaration of defeat. It's simply my "objective" observation, based on what I've experienced so far. So, just pick your battles. And since we're grounded in this plane of existence (at least most of us are), put most of your work towards taking care of your "real" life. Let this other world do what it does (it's not like we can change its status quo -- that's for its citizens alone to change towards becoming "better" beings). As you have seen, they still visit you on your sleep (even if they don't interact with you as clearly anymore). You can't avoid them because you're part of the "system". As long as you're incarnated as an individual human being, you're part of that system, by definition. So, just let them be. They do their thing, you do yours. Besides, someone else higher up is manipulating THEM anyway! It's the natural order of life.

Personally, I don't trust anyone. Not even my own guide. However, she has shown that while she might have a larger agenda to serve, she has helped me with a lot of things too (e.g. she recently revealed to me the cause of a recent illness, which I've taken steps to correct). So while I try to keep that world "in check", I also take some input in. Just cautiously. Take the good in, leave the bad out. As with real life, use your best judgement.