Wasn't really sure how to title this exactly. But anyways I got to thinking in my last trip as to whether what people do was based upon solely their desire to do good. Going into it an ominous sense began to pervade the room. I felt as though even if ones desire to do good was there that some sort of violence pervaded underneath. And I felt like this violence somehow affected other's trip's. I couldn't help but wonder if that's the case do I have to face it, whatever it is. Perhaps one would be facing one's own cruelty or something, just guessing here. I'd consider myself a pretty good guy, I'm not a dickhead to people or anything yet a lot of negative stuff seems to lie underneath the surface. Yet as I proceeded to go into it I changed my mind thinking is this some sick sort of desire to suffer oneself. I read a lot of Jungian psychology and the like and I certainly have a lot to learn in that arena.

I suppose my question/s would be does everyone experience that at some point? Is that mostly to do with me or is it a mix? I go into it usually thinking w/e comes up will be about me but alas I really don't know. I was hesitant to go to deep this time around thinking it better to put off til next time, whenever that is. Thought's?

I think that we all have a dark side, or a 'shadow' in Jung's terminology, and it's very important to become aware of that part of ourselves and have that as an ally. In mythology, when Perseus fought the Medusa, he didn't destroy her completely, he actually beheaded her and carried her head as a tool for himself.

On a similar note but not exactly, Gurdjieff has a quote which I love and think is very relevant: " In order to be a true altruist, one must first learn to be a conscious egoist " (or consciously selfish).

So say for example even posting this here, there's a lot going on behind my intentions. On one level I'm trying to contribute to the discussion, answer you, help out. But there are other levels too, maybe part of it is my ego, which wants to 'show off', or something like that. Or maybe there's also a self-centered 'desire to belong' ,which may or may not be related with survival instincts we acquired from our past where not belonging to a group was a death sentence.

I think more often than not these two (or multiple) sides come together in the different things we do. I think that it's important that we do not deny or repress such 'negative' part of ourselves otherwise it just comes out in an uncontrolled fashion elsewhere. I think self-observation is a key, try to observe the different impulses, accept them and deal with them, and manage the best way possible.

And when adding psychedelics to the mix, its likely that this will be even further potentiated, all the different sides can come out, and we see all these different parts of ourselves (and others). It's a great learning experience, and realizing we have a dark side should not be seen as a negative thing but a very important part of our path to self-knowledge and becoming better people.

Not sure if this is exactly the kind of answer you were looking for but it's what came to my mind

Thank you very much for the reply Endlessness. I particularly like the mention of Perseus and Medusa, I wonder if Joseph Campbell went into that? I may have to go and look it up. So if we are to utilize it, what happens if one were to look Medusa straight on in terms of Jungian psychology or Campbell's comparative myth?

Good question.. Maybe its like, we just cannot face our dark side directly, but we need some kind of indirect method, we need to see it's reflection in other things like Perseus' shield. Or in other words we need tools to help us see our darkside, because we are incapable of directly seeing it, we'd just get paralysed (denial? ). So these tools could be psychedelics, or other people that can serve as a reflection of ourselves, or something of the sort?

Makes sense, too bad the only person I trust to journey with and speak face to face with lives too far from me. Though I can still give em a call though as I did on my previous trip. Though that still doesn't beat having them face to face. Thanks for the reply, being as detached as I am I suppose that's the closest thing to being petrified or paralyzed. Then again at least I'm making progress albeit slowly, that's better than nothing.

I feel like you're talking about ulterior motives. Would I be wrong in assuming that? You've used the words "good" and "violence" in ways that beg definition.

I would argue for example that violence is sometimes very good. Not to split hairs, Jung is one of my favorites. Who would have thought so many Tool/Jung fans would wind up on the web in one spot?

All that being said, "Id" have to say that we all have ulterior motives, some of us are just better at it than others. Some of us just allow them to control us and do bad things to our relationships. If you're feeling bad about it during a trip perhaps it is something you need to parse. Not in general but in specific relationships.

Anyhow, I guess I'm wondering how you define good and violence. There are a lot of normal parts of being human that tend to get messy especially when you come from a western, christian mindset.

First off I'd say what endlessness said was certainly helpful. Though I suppose in a sense I'm thinking of Jung's Collective unconscious. If I for example am nice to some older man. Is it out of solely love or is there maybe some kind of hatred towards fellow human beings. And thus somehow contributing to any violence to come towards fellow human beings. Such as murder or you know anything like that. I imagine it sound's pretty weird perhaps irrational to think that somehow without one's shadow in check that the said energy of hatred or w/e is going on under the surface adds to the collective energy of said thing. Perhaps by some manner of love and self acceptance one is in a sense healing the collective? And lessening the chances of said harm to other's and maybe when freeing that burden in oneself your giving room for other's to change even if it's only a slight change.

All just guesswork here, just an idea and I use "energy" because I honestly just don't know how else to put it.

Also in another sense psychedelics tend to evoke that fear of loss of control. Could I or another do something harmful without one knowing about it? And if so perhaps the violence I mentioned earlier could happen. I'd never go there consciously but still can't help but wonder if such a thing happened if it were due to something left unresolved. Hopefully that cleared it up a bit.