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I'm certain the Oneness, God, Universe, Life, or whatever I'm trying to label, doesn't mean the label I attach to it.

Some people have glorious visions where all distinctions slip away, but there is still this element of play in which the One hides in the Many. Where Ying battles Yang for the fun of it.

I don't understand the last sentence. Can someone explain?

The monotheistic idea, if I understand Watts at all, is like that of an inventor who made a machine.

The atheists continue with this view, but have gotten rid of the inventor. So the universe is an automatic machine, but can still be broken apart and analyzed to see how it works.

Along with this view is the idea that the observer of this machine is somehow separate and alien. A stranger in the world, who must fight the thing in order to survive. Science has discovered though, especially on the atomic scale of things, that merely observing causes an indelible effect. So maybe Quantum Mechanics has or will loop back around to where the Taoists knew thousands of years ago.

"My questions:

1. Does anyone believe in any of the Abrahamic religions?
2. Is anyone here an atheist?
3. How has DMT affected your views on God, religion, and spirituality?"

(I'm sorry... I don't know how to properly quote another post!)

Alright... here's a rather rare reply to find in these kinds of forums, but here goes:

1. I am a practing Catholic, and a rather traditional one, at that (For example, I attend the old Latin Mass).
2. Well, obviously I'm not an atheist.
3. While SWIM has not done DMT yet, he has done quite a few other psychedelics (e.g. shrooms, acid, high-dose ketamine).

I am not uncomfortable around people whose spiritualities are different than my own, though I have found more than a few (sadly) who are not comfortable around me. This has happened ONLY when a person who doesn't really know me simply finds out that I'm Catholic and that I truly believe in and practice it, and NEVER simply by hanging around someone and them seeing what I'm really like. In other words, I'm not preachy and have never been accused of being a "Jesus-freak" by anyone based on my personality. I have found that how someone speaks about Christians - or even more, those religions that are commonly maligned, such as Mormonism - is a true test to see how opened minded and accepting someone really is. From my experience (including being a student at left-leaning Berkeley), it is commonly easier to be accepted believing in pantheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. while stating that you are Catholic/Christian can bring on the angry questions/comments. Though I have to say, I met many, many people (including the vast majority of my friends!) who were non-Christian and much more Eastern in their belief systems who were very open, loving and embraced me for who I was!

So how does a Catholic such as myself make sense of the world? A combination of faith and science (which are complementary rather than contradictory, since they deal with two separate realms), philosophy and experience (including the invaluable empirical data of the psychedelic experience). SWIM has learned a great deal about the nature of the universe, the mind, and the heart through the use of psychedelics, but has found a more complete view of the universe also takes into account a healthy dose of reason (including studying the writings of history's great philosophers). At this point in my journey, I feel very comfortable taking all of these together and still being a devout Catholic.

So how about that for an anomaly- a Catholic who believes in the benefits of psychedelics! A rarity amoung users of psychedelics and a rariy in the Church!

Each persons journey back to the center is unique.

There are no right or wrong beliefs, all views are valid.

To somewhat accurately quote Mohammed, "There are as many paths to god as there are souls in existence"

Please show what evidence you have to support these rather radical ideas.



Because to me that makes absolutely no sense.

I believe God created man through evolution.

I think I was an atheist at one time, for many years I did not believe God existed but at the same time I wanted it to be true, what was I? Is there such a thing as an atheist who does not believe in God and had a strong dislike of religions yet wanted such to be real? I'm not sure I was one, but I sure didn't believe in God and thought religions, especially the Christian ones, were a bunch of stories manufactured by mankind and not from God, at least, in the way its source is being taught in churches. Truth is, I still tend to believe that but I don't really know so am reserving judgment. The Holy Bible? I still do not think it is any more holy than anything else on this planet in my not so humble opinion. However While I make such a stern remark I also will say that all things are holy, all in this universe is a wonderful astounding miracle, to me. I am a contradiction in some ways, I will write such things as I just did telling you that the Bible isn't any more holy than anything else on this planet such as Microsoft's Windows operating system yet I also can see that all things are holy! I think my main issue is I don't agree with the way religions usually teach a great disparity between man and their concept of God.

Regarding God being real or not, I changed my thinking because of a dream I had one afternoon. If you want to see what turned my world around to believe God exists and that we are all One as a part of the all that is, one life living through all life now, in the past and in the future, in parallel and in series at the same time... if you want to see why I changed please go to the link I am providing, below. Now, I fully believe all life is the same life, the same One living through each of us and I feel this way from the dream I had, not from a religion, just one dream and my outlook on life changed, here is a link to the story: http://people.tribe.net/...d-4183-9b5a-bede362c9ad1

While I use the word God I don't want to use that word, I don't like the religious implications of it. Regarding DMT, only had a very small taste of it one time, want to try again but it may be years until I can.

Wow, that is really well put!

My view of our "oneness" is summed up well in something I read in a book on the Tao.
This is not an exact quote, it was a long time ago when I actually read it, but it has stuck with me for years now.

When you look at the earth from out in space, as a planet, what you see a number of land masses that appear to be totally separated by all the water.
but if you were to drain off all of that water, one would be able to see how those land masses are actually connected to each other underneath all of that water.
The land mass is one big piece, separated only on the surface by the water.
Just like our minds & bodies.
The land masses are our souls/spirits/consciousnesses/etc... (whatever you want to call it), the water is our skin/bodies/meat cars/etc...

I've always felt that analogy works quite well in explaining the god-consciousness, or "oneness" that we all feel (or do not feel) at times.

I think religion is the thing most heads have a problem with, not spirituality. Those are two very, very different things.
Basically, religion is the selling of spirituality.


WS

...of course, the original Taoists didn't know about plate tectonics...

Well, loosely connected...
but it's the idea of the surface hiding the truth that has stuck with me.

WS

Oh God, that's a good one, oneness is hidden beneath the surface! The analogy of the water on the earth and the continents is awesome, very nice!

I agree there is one ultimate truth, but it is unknowable. You have your truth, I have mine, and in the end we will both get to the same place. I have my beliefs which are very different than yours and are based on logic, reason, and observation. We are both right. We are both wrong. That is what I meant by all beliefs are valid.

My belief

We all create our own reality's from our consciousness. The I does not exist, unfortunately from our conception we are taught that I does exist. So our reality s are distorted we create what we experience. The ego is a huge barrier which blinds us so that we can not see and we create suffering for ourselves and for others. The only way to be free form this distorted reality is to create self awareness and compassion for all beings. Once the ego has been shattered and peace of mind has been attained freeing yourself from this never ending circle of suffering becomes a possibility. For me personally enthogens and mediation aid me on my journey of self discovery and ego detachment.
Nothing really exists and at the same time everything exists.....the biggest mind bender of all time.....Maybe that's why religions and religious books don't allow their followers to question....If people truly understood what is really happening it could cause total chaos. I feel we should always question everything not ever just blindly believe something. The best way to explain that we don't really exist is its the I that doesn't exist, we are taught when we are small that I does and we need to change that way of thinking so that we realize the I doesn't exist just our karma and our consciousness does and that we need to understand the idea of emptiness. My true path to enlightenment is radiating pure compassion.



Much Peace

I never said that truth was unknowable, I said the Ultimate Truth is unknowable. Nothing you can show me or have me read will change that belief. Why? Because then I am ascribing to someone else's truth, and box myself into a corner. I find it inconcievealbe that anyone would claim to know the mind of God. Would it expand upon my own understanding of the truth? Quite possibly, if it resonates with me. I am immeadiately skeptical of anyone who claims to know the "Truth" as you seem to be doing. I have found my own truth, and that is sufficient. Nothing has been obfuscated from me, my intellect and responsibility to my other selves has not been diminished, my understanding has only grown in strength as the questions I ask are answered, and new questions arise.

Not sure what you mean by a liberal democracy, as we are not a democracy, we are a republic. I would disagree that the idea of relative truth is what has destroyed America, there are many other and more compelling reasons for its apparent demise. What are Natural Rights? Please define.

The numbers 3, 6, 9, 12 are significant for me, and that is all that matters.

I was educated in the US, but my beliefs in regards of spirituality have nothing to do with my education. I've been out of school for a couple decades, and my Awakening happened quite suddenly and unexpectedly. It is quite convincing, and has nothing to do with Kabbalah, or any other organized belief system. I disagree with you, in that one of us is right and one of us is wrong. I do not have to believe in any specific dogma in order to transcend to the divine. We are all individual expressions of the One, and therefore each experience is unique and necessary to the whole, irrespective of belief, knowledge or personal truth. Can certain understanding bring us closer or get us there faster? I would agree with that, but it is by no means necessary, and there is not one particular understanding that trumps all others. We are both right, and we are both wrong. I am happy that you have found your path, one day we will meet and have a big laugh about this game we are both playing.

Will we transcend without dying? Possibly, but I am not an Earth native, and I tire of this world. Thankfully my service is almost complete. I am looking foward to going home, whether it is a living transcendence or death matters not.

Namaste

Well said Aegle.




My true path is compassion tempered by wisdom.

I just read much of this article you posted. Very interesting, many of the concepts I have come across before, and have been incorporated into my own personal truth. I have understood for quite some time that all is vibration and that love is the key.
Definately worth reading, as it expands compellingly upon some of those concepts. Thank you for this, you have increased my understanding.

But the Truth is no more knowable now than before I read it.

Yes!... Beautiful post Aegle!

Resonates with me very much. That is my EXACTLY my view.

...And good first post in this thread Saidin! Your posts hold alot with me also.


COMPASSION AND RESPECT

Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn beyond the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Black then white are all I see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see there is so much more
and beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine
drawn outside the lines of reason.
Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind.

Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going...

---

I like this song(Lateralus by Tool), it kinda fits with whats being talked about here.

It's cool when you find a path you enjoy walking, but if your 'enlightenment' becomes structured it's not longer a path of freedom. Live for the moment because every breathe I take is another step I get to take to explore this mysterious world where nothing is stable and always an adventure. When it comes to the end of the day and I would be ok if it was my last, then I know I am walking a path of heart.