Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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I recently went to the Outer Banks, North Carolina at the northernmost tip of the State near the Virgina State line... It is a really neat place! Feral horses which escaped a Spanish ship have lived there for over 300 years! It was truly amazing place! If you have never been to the Outer Banks it is basically a strip of sandy islands out in the middle of the sea, almost like a 2nd coast line... a strange and wonderful place! While there I noticed many rare and interesting botanicals including Opuntia cacti and something known as "Yaupon"... The Outer Banks I saw this magical plant, Ilex vomitoria, everywhere in the Outer Banks and even collected a few specimens for cultivation! This got me interested in the Ilex genus, Holly plants. Ilex vomitoria ~ "Yaupon" Ilex vomitoria "Yaupon" is a species of holly native to southeastern North America, occurring in United States from Virginia to Florida, it is concentrated on the coast of the Carolinas and is prolific in the Outer Banks. Quote:Prior to the 19th century, the black drink was consumed during the daily deliberations of the village councils and at all other important council meetings. Creeks, Cherokees, Choctaws, and others believed it purified the drinker and purged him of anger and falsehoods. Black drink was prepared by special village officials and served in large communal cups, frequently made of whelk shell. The men in council were served in order of precedence, starting with important visitors. They consumed large quantities at a sitting. Afterward, they purged themselves by vomiting.  Quote:Many tribes across the Southeastern United States continued using the black drink long after the invasion of European cultures. Creeks, Cherokees, Choctaws, Ais, Guale, Chickasaws, Chitimacha and many others are documented users of the drink. Although rituals varied amongst the different tribes, there are common traits which span most of the tribal variations. Black drink was forbidden to women, and it was taboo for them to even help in its preparation. The drink, after its preparation, was passed out to the highest status person first, then the next highest status, and so forth. During each persons turn to drink, ritual songs were sung (Yahola, the ritual name Asi Yahola or Black Drink Singer is corrupted into English as Osceola). The black drink was a purifier, that removed sin and blemish from the drinker, and as such was never taken casually, even when taken daily. Some tribes practiced ritual vomiting after its consumption, possibly to heighten its purgative and purifying powers, by expelling contamination from the body. The sharing of tobacco was also a part of the ritual. The Black Drink reportedly induced vomiting during Cherokee purification ceremonies, but as explained above, this behavior is likely to have been deliberate or the result of the quantity imbibed, not due to the chemical properties of the drink itself. n the 1830s, the use of the black drink was forgotten and abandoned by many tribes when they were removed to Oklahoma, where the Yaupon Holly does not grow.
Ilex guayusa ~ "Guayusa".jpg) Three species of the Holly genus Ilex yield caffeine. The best known is Yerba Maté, Ilex paraguariensis, the national drink of Argentina. The second is the previously discussed Ilex vomitoria, the only caffeine containing plant native to North America. The third and by far the most mysterious is Ilex guayusa. Ilex guayusa, commonly known as "guayusa" or "wayusa" is an Amazonian tree of the holly genus, native to the Amazon Rainforest. Quote:“The Jivaro say guayusa is so habituating that before it is offered to a visitor, she is warned that once she drinks it, she will ever after return to the Ecuadorian Jungle” - Michael Harner Quote:Guayusa is used by people of the Amazon basin to make an energizing tea and as a herbal medicine. It also has the interesting effect of inducing lucid dreaming. For this reason, it is known as the "watchman's plant", as even when sleeping you are aware of your external surroundings. For those interested in shamanic dreaming this is certainly the plant to explore. It is used along with Ayahuasca to help ease bitterness, to stay awake during Ayahuasca ceremonies, and to help prevent hangover effects. Quote:In addition to drinking cups of guayusa like many Americans drink coffee, indigenous hunters will drink guayusa to sharpen their instincts and call it the “Night Watchman" because it helps them stay alert and awake all night. For many Ecuadorian indigenous people, the morning drinking of guayusa is a social ritual. Quote:Ilex guayusa has been collected only rarely by botanists and is known exclusively as a cultivated plant. According some botanist it has never been found in flower. The use of Guayusa is very ancient, a 1,500-year-old bundle of Ilex guayusa leaves was found by famous Ethnobotanist Richard Evans Schultes in a shaman's tomb high in the Bolivian Andes, far beyond the natural range of the plant. Quote:In addition to caffeine, Guayusa also contains guanidine, a proven antihyperglycemic and antihypertensive compound that stabilizes blood sugar levels and relaxes the body. Functioning as a balanced stimulant, some Amazonian Tribes also say that Guayusa promotes restful sleep and good dreams. Unlike coffee, it is said to be good for excessive acidity and other problems in the stomach and bile. It is both energizing and relaxing at the same time and develops mental strength. The plant can contain more than 2.0% caffeine, making it the most potent caffeine producing botanical on the planet. Ilex paraguariensis ~ "Yerba Mate" The infusion called Maté is prepared by steeping dry leaves (and twigs) of the Yerba Maté plant in hot (or sometimes cold) water, rather than in boiling water like the Black Drink made from Ilex vomitoria  Quote:Yerba maté, Ilex paraguariensis, is a species of the Holly family native to subtropical regions of South America. It was first scientifically classified by Swiss botanist Moses Bertoni, who settled in Paraguay in 1895.
Quote:The flavor of brewed Yerba Maté is strongly herbal, and grassy, reminiscent of some varieties of green tea. Many consider the flavor to be very agreeable, but it is generally bitter if steeped in boiling water (especially if stirred or disturbed during brewing), so it is made using hot but not boiling water. Unlike most teas, it does not become bitter and astringent when steeped for extended periods, and the leaves may be infused several times. Einstein drinking Yerba Maté- Quote:Ilex paraguariensis is grown and processed mainly in South America, more specifically in Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Brazil. The Guaraní are reputed to be the first people who cultivated the plant; the first Europeans to do this were Jesuit missionaries, who spread the drinking habit as far as Ecuador and Chile. When the Yerba Mate is harvested, the branches are dried, sometimes with a wood fire, imparting a smoky flavor. Then the leaves and sometimes the twigs are broken up. There are many brands and types of Yerba Mate, with and without twigs, some with low powder content. The plant Ilex paraguariensis can vary in strength of the flavor, caffeine levels and other nutrients depending on whether it is a male or female plant. Female plants tend to be milder in flavor, and lower in caffeine. They are also relatively scarce in the areas where Yerba Mate is planted and cultivated, not wild-harvested, compared to the male plants. Ilex kudingcha ~ "Ku Ding" Another healing Holly from China, this one however, does not contain caffeine. Here is a look at some other stimulating green-leafed ethnobotanicals-Camellia sinensis ~ "Tea" Catha edulis ~ "Khat" Coffea arabica ~ "Coffee" Erythroxylum coca ~ "Coca Leaf" Erythroxylum novogranatense ~ "Coca Leaf"  Pausinystalia yohimbe ~ "Yohimbe"  Theobroma cacao ~ "Cacao"  Am i missing any green leafed stimulants?? WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 305 Joined: 11-Feb-2009 Last visit: 27-Jul-2012
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sida cordifolia and catharanthus lanceus has yohimibine too,but has too many other alkaloids to be useful unless extraction and isolation is possible.Tobacco and betel leaf/nut.
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The Root
 
Posts: 2458 Joined: 02-Jul-2008 Last visit: 27-Sep-2023 Location: The asteroid belt
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could kanna be refered to as a stimulant ? not only sida cordifolia is used but many other spp. there are other spp of catha too - not sure on the activity but check catha pondoensis - i dont think you will find much info on it but it grows in the eastern cape (old Transkei) Hartogiella schinoides / Cassine schinoides ((probably spelled that wrong) - spoonwood - could also contain similar actives to catha edulis - same family - celastraceae - and is employed in a simmilar manner in places. Even looks very simmilar see  There are also local erythroxylum spp to be tested There are loads more coffee spp than that Voacanga africana is used in small amounts to aid the hunt by giving energy to the hunter - guess that could be using it as a stimulant ? There are local spp of ilex and i always wondered if they could be used in the same way as mate' - long ago i met up with some argentinian students and they shared the mate tradition with me - got a gourd and use it often - mate' is good stuff, i drink that and green tea instead of coffee. antrocles wrote:...purity of intent....purity of execution....purity of experience...
...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".
IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.
Quote: ‹Jorkest› the wall is impenetrable as far as i can tell Quote: ‹xtechre› cheese is great He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.
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Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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If you like Yerba Mate try Ilex guayusa or Ilex vomitoria (don't let the name put you off). WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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John
Posts: 700 Joined: 31-Aug-2008 Last visit: 27-Jan-2024 Location: Highland
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'Coatl wrote:If you like Yerba Mate try Ilex guayusa or Ilex vomitoria (don't let the name put you off).
... vomitoria ? sorry but that actually putting me off! Hey I found mate a bit pricey in highland, do you know cheap(international) vendor ??? As a kemist I never met ILPT in physical form and never talk to him. He share his wisdom, trough my mind, telepathicly only. Please don`t prosecute me, for his possible illegal activities. He is bonkers about chemistry and doesn`t even exist in this primitive reality !!!
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Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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Native Americans only threw up when drinking Ilex vomitoria because of the amount consumed and it's part of the ritual. It causes no nausea or anything of that nature. WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 11 Joined: 25-May-2009 Last visit: 07-Jul-2009 Location: The Woods
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How is Guayusa? I've always liked yerba and this plant sounds pretty interesting, might be helpful for my night hikes.
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The Great Namah
Posts: 3433 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Sep-2020 Location: The place entites go when they smoke allspice
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Wow, that is a host of info Coatl'! It's amazing how many local plants were used a medicine. BTW I loved the Outer Banks when I went there as a kid. The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
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Never underestimate the power of STUFF!
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.
I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1813 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Oct-2013 Location: Heart of the Sun
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feelsolar wrote:How is Guayusa? I've always liked yerba and this plant sounds pretty interesting, might be helpful for my night hikes. Guayusa is a wonderful tea!! It has a stimulant effect like you'd think, because of the caffeine content, but its not edgy like coffee is, it's actually kind of calming & mellow. Nice stuff!! I still love my coffee in the morning, but a nice cup of Guayusais great in the evening & great before Ayahuasca!! Herba Matte is also good, similar to Guayusa, but it is a bit more edgy like coffee. Think I'll make me some right now!  Cheers! WS All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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Coatl, I am very interested in the Ilex guayusa. Would you be able to PM a reputable site or two to either purchase the leaves (for tea). Or possibly the seeds? You seems to have a wealth of info on entheobot's. Thanks alot 
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Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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Anytime, DMTtripn2Space! That is why I am here. I will post it in the thread for the benefit of everyone! (Crap... hang on...) WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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John
Posts: 700 Joined: 31-Aug-2008 Last visit: 27-Jan-2024 Location: Highland
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'Coatl wrote:Native Americans only threw up when drinking Ilex vomitoria because of the amount consumed and it's part of the ritual.
It causes no nausea or anything of that nature.
Fair enough .... anyway where to get paws on this vomitory shite, lol ? As a kemist I never met ILPT in physical form and never talk to him. He share his wisdom, trough my mind, telepathicly only. Please don`t prosecute me, for his possible illegal activities. He is bonkers about chemistry and doesn`t even exist in this primitive reality !!!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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'Coatl wrote:Anytime, DMTtripn2Space! That is why I am here.
I will post it in the thread for the benefit of everyone!
(Crap... hang on...)
Awesome, thank you!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2015 Joined: 07-Oct-2008 Last visit: 05-Apr-2012
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That's really interesting how North American tribes used ilex vomitoria in a similar way as Amazonians use ilex guayusa. I recalled in another thread how Bruce Parry's 'Amazon' (google and ye shall find) showed a tribe drinking something in order to purge ever morning. I was told by another member that this is guayusa. The women prepare the drink for the men in the early morning every morning, but are not allowed it themselves. The men drink a massive bowl each then go outside and vomit it up using their fingers or sticks to induce vomiting (they also use this stick technique to induce vomiting when drinking ayawaska). Then they go hunting or about their work, pretty stimulated I'd imagine. Shouldn't the Tuscarora be on your map somewhere? They would've still been living in Carolina at that time, because while their migration to NY started early 18th century, the final migration was 1831, and some Tuscarora remained albeit without reservations (so says Wikipedia anyway!). I love the photo of Einstein drinking mate! I drink guayusa sometimes before going out. It's more feelgood than coffee and tea, and kinder to the stomach. But still I could do with being more relaxed after a 5g tea simmered for 30 mins, it still has edginess. I'd love to try decaffeinated guayusa. Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
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Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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I'm going to make a cup of Guayusa right now! Next.... let's talk a little bit about the cultivation of Ilex plants like Ilex guayusa and Ilex vomitoria. WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1813 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Oct-2013 Location: Heart of the Sun
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'Coatl, your not supposed to be posting vendors in threads other than in the "Suppliers" thread in the "General" sub-forum. That is why he asked you to PM it to him. If you'd like ( or haven't already), you could make a thread there for this. Also, I think Travler has discussed this with you before... Please edit your post. Thanks!! BTW, if anybody is interested, you can PM me for a supplier of really good Guayusa tea too. WS All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Teotzlcoatl
Posts: 2462 Joined: 08-Jul-2008 Last visit: 24-Jun-2011 Location: South-Eastern U.S.A.
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I have been allowed to post vendors "when relevant" for awhile, are you sure this isn't ok? Thanks for asking me to edit it, instead of just removing it, now I can copy and paste it to another site before it gets deleted. I'll remove the post until somebody tells me it's ok. Quote:BTW, if anybody is interested, you can PM me for a supplier of really good Guayusa tea. PM me or post "where relevant", please. WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl. "We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1813 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Oct-2013 Location: Heart of the Sun
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Thanks! All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"No, seriously"
Posts: 7324 Joined: 18-Jan-2007 Last visit: 02-Nov-2024 Location: Orion Spur
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Thank you for removing the links 'Coatl. Several times I received a sample of Ilex Guayusa and wondered how it would be prepared. Do you take say 5g and boil a tea out of it for half an hour?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1813 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 17-Oct-2013 Location: Heart of the Sun
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I've gotten those free samples too, from the same place I would guess. I don't have a teapot & I didn't know if I wanted to buy one yet, so I just got some empty tea bags & put 2-4 Teaspoons of the powdered leaves in there & staple it shut. Then I boil some water & pour that over the bag & then put the cup, with the bag in it, into the microwave to boil for a couple of minutes. Then I let it steep for 5-6 minutes or so. Then drinky-drinky  WS All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
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