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Ice clean extraction journal (MHRB) Options
 
1ce
#1 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:14:04 AM

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Ight all, I will be updating this tek as time flows because this isn't a 4hr till you smoalk tek.


I will be brutally honest, this tek is designed to achieve high quality results. It focuses on accuracy vs simplicity and speed. So then, let's cook!

Chapter 1: The Cook.

The first step of chapter 1 will of course, be grinding up your bark. Here I have 65g mimosa hostilis I have cut up. After it is cut up I put it into a blender to pulverize the living daylights out of it.





Next, we need some base. I use a 1:9 ratio of NaOH/water solution. This means for every 9 grams of water I use, I use 1 gram of lye. 1ml of water is 1 gram for reference. (Isn't metric just so convenient?)

Add your base slowly to cool water, never add water to lye. You understand? NEVER! Stir while you do this, it will be milky so keep stirring until it is clear.



I went ahead and heated mine up a bit. You may do this as well with a hotplate or hotwater bath. Take note, this step is dangerous and you should only attempt it if you have safety equipment (gloves, goggles) and you feel comfortable doing this. Else skip to the next step.



Intimately mix your shredded bark with your basic solution. I kept heating mine to keep it hot, that is fine if you do the same. Stir constantly and NEVER let it boil. Molten lye is as much fun as not fun could get.
Again, this isn't nesicary feel free to omit this step if you'd like.



Keep stirring for a while, between half an hour to an hour. After you are done, we travel to chapter 2 of this tek.

Chapter 2: Extraction.

You will need a vessel. A stainless steel bottle with a glass or stainless steel marble/bearing works rather well.

It must be glass, or steel.



Now we add our solvent. Many folk recommend 1m per gram of bark, I use about half that. Do what you prefer.



Now add your solvent (I will assume you're using naptha) to your aqueous mixture. The aqueous mixture will be the one with water. Your solvent will be frequently referred to as your organic layer.

Now, mix the two layers together in a container, and mix them intimately for several minutes. Once you are through mixing your layers, pour them out into a larger container, and allow them to separate.



Now remove the organic layer carefully to avoid taking very much, if any of the aqueous layer. It will really screw up the washing step.

I use a sep funnel for this step. Syringes are amazing for removing your solvent as precisely as possible. I purposefully put a ton of base in my sep to show you the consequences of not being careful.

(Too much base)


Once you transfer your organic layer wash it with DISTILLED water. Use an equal volume if possible. After it settle swirl it gently and let it settle again. Be very gentle while washing, emulsions form easilly, and if you don't have a centrifuge you might cause yourself alot of headache screwing this part up.

Done right:


Done wrong:


Centrifuges are n1ce:


Now that you have washed your organic layer a couple times, set it off to the side and repeat this chapter 2-3 more times. Dump your washed solvents together, and proceed to chapter 3.

Chapter 3: Pre-precipitation preparation. (Say that 3 times fast!)

Your solvent may be yellow, but that's ok. Evaporate it down to 1/3-1/2 its current volume.

Yellow solvent ='(


I evap using a water bath and a vacuum to recollect my solvents. So I'm not afraid to go a little overboard and use too much to extract with. You would do well to avoid this as you will likely be evapping with a baking dish and a fan. Fumes are nasty.. open a window!

Fumes are nasty..


Now that you have way less solvent to worry about, clean it up with activated charcoal. Crush it up and add a bit in and swirl. Be sparing, or your yield will suffer!

CLEANNNNNNNNN


Your solvent should be free of yellow traces. If it is not add a tiny bit more crushed activated charcoal. You may use a hot water bath amd swirling as you deem fit.

After it is clean, filter your solvent 2 TIMES.



Okay, your solvent should be looking pretty damn clean. You're probaly already thinking about the glory you're going to be vaping later.

Stop that. We're not done yet.

Chapter 4: Crystalizing

First and foremost. Get your crystalizing dish right now and clean it. Do not use soap, whipe it dry, then rinse it with a small amount of acetone and let it evaporate dry.

Clean and dry:


When your dish is all nice and clean, pour your solvent into it, seal it up. And let it sit for 2-3 hours.

Foil and a rubber band make a good lid, be sure to crease the edges:


After this, place it in the refridgerator for 3 more hours. Then the freezer for no less than 12 hours. NO LESS THAN 12! a full day would be optimal.

Chapter 5: Harvest.
 

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1ce
#2 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:15:21 AM

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I'll be finishing this tek as my batch finishes so bear with me.
 
expandaneum
#3 Posted : 11/14/2014 1:20:38 PM

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He what is your aim with this tek ? So far I think it has nothing new.
Also I think you should mention that the precip only works with naphta, hexane's.

Furthermore if you have a large sep funnel I would definitely use that for the extraction
and not a stainless steel jar. Or with the magnetic stirrer you could use that to pull just let it stir vigorously for a hour and add salt for improved yields and better separation.

keep up the good work


Disclaimer:
All Expandeum's notes, messages, postings, ideas, suggestions, concepts or other material submitted via this forum and or website are completely fictional and are not in any way based on real live experience.
 
Earthwalker
#4 Posted : 11/14/2014 3:47:18 PM

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In sorry but I'm a little lost as I'm trying to figure out how this TEK is differant to any other STB TEK , also I think you forgot the salting step !

Also all this lab hardware most members arnt going to recognize or know the names of them let alone the purpose or advantage if any ! But it's great to see members contributing !
 
1ce
#5 Posted : 11/14/2014 6:18:10 PM

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expandaneum wrote:
He what is your aim with this tek ? So far I think it has nothing new.
Also I think you should mention that the precip only works with naphta, hexane's.

Furthermore if you have a large sep funnel I would definitely use that for the extraction
and not a stainless steel jar. Or with the magnetic stirrer you could use that to pull just let it stir vigorously for a hour and add salt for improved yields and better separation.

keep up the good work



I have a large sep funnel I use for the extraction.

Also the tek is not finished. I didn't see the washing or a/c step in any other tek..?

I don't dump my base into the funnel because it will clog, and I'd really prefer to clean it once.

 
1ce
#6 Posted : 11/14/2014 6:24:35 PM

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Please keep in mind the tek is only half done x_x
 
SnozzleBerry
#7 Posted : 11/14/2014 6:42:54 PM

omnia sunt communia!

Moderator | Skills: Growing (plants/mushrooms), Research, Extraction troubleshooting, Harmalas, Revolution (theory/practice)

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If you don't mind me borrowing your terminology for a moment, I'm going to be brutally honest.

It doesn't appear that this pictorial brings anything new to the table, except for the use of a whole bunch of equipment that the average kitchen chemist doesn't have at home.

Additionally, this claim
1ce wrote:
I will be brutally honest, this tek is designed to achieve high quality results. It focuses on accuracy vs simplicity and speed.

presents a false dichotomy. Also, it's an incorrect statement. If you are really focusing on "accuracy" or proper lab technique, an A/B would be performed, not a STB.

Accuracy seems, imo, to be a strange term to use when talking about the results of an extraction. If what you mean is purity, we've already seen that it's possible to extract DMT of high purity with all of the existing methodologies at the Nexus. If what you mean is proper lab technique, I would contest that claim in relation to this pictorial.

I can run my methodology on bark within the course of a day, completely exhausting the bark while using practically no lab equipment, and yielding the same high-purity DMT as other methods on the Nexus. Remember, burnt's analytical work showed that even his dark red DMT was still ~95% pure.

So ultimately, I'd like to echo expandaneum
expandaneum wrote:
what is your aim with this tek?
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1ce
#8 Posted : 11/14/2014 8:32:59 PM

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To get clear/near clear shards first go. Like I said the tek is only HALF way done. The very first sentence states this. Why am I getting hammered already?

Also, I don't own any mason jars and turkey bastors. I have flasks and syringes.

I'm not trying to sound cross but this makes 5 times now(IIRC) I'M NOT FINISHED Stop

I have employment responsibilities, If I could be sitting at home finishing this to get everyone off my back. Oh believe me, I would.
I thoroughly enjoy doing this.

Also, I believe I've added alot more than the generic:

Add base. Add bark. Add solvent. Shake. Freezer.

I've had sucess in getting nearly completely clear shards using a STB method without even recrystalizing. So I'm sharing my step by step.

I could exhaust my bark with a homogenizer/centrifuge/rotovap in an afternoon. But that's not my goal -.-

I've tried all sorts of different methods, A/B included. I have plans for an ACRB tek, sublimation teks, I'd even like to try out distillations to see if the alkaloid survives the process. I've also yet to include alot of kitchen chemistry alternatives (I've included at least a couple). I assumed we wouldn't jump the gun when I said I've only started the tek. I did not get to sit home all day and record it as I had quite a bit to do here recently. I've read some of the STB teks and I found quite a number of things mine includes that they don't. No, a STB is by no means a new concept, I'm not claiming it is.

If you'd like to wait until I'm done I'll accept your complaints with arms wide open.

I do want critisism, but can we at least wait until I'm done first? Confused
.
 
anrchy
#9 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:03:31 PM

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If you are so against live criticism than I would suggest, You should have gotten it all together before making this thread. The forum doesnt just stop for you and I don't see why you are getting all up in arms because people are replying to a thread that is unfinished.

If one thing can be said about this forum, its that the criticism can seem harsh. If it offends you then you might want to re-evaluate how you take things.
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SnozzleBerry
#10 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:12:09 PM

omnia sunt communia!

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I think part of the reason you're getting the reaction you are is that the methodology you've presented so far is overcomplicated in both materials and approach when compared to the existing approaches. If you don't have the equipment presented here (and most don't) there's really not much utility, imo.

Additionally, you've made the claim that this approach superior as far as "accuracy" despite the fact that you're simply carrying out an STB with some "fancy" lab toys. As you can't yield more than the bark contains, and as we already have methodologies to which your approach is essentially identical (minus the lab toys) and that are capable of exhausting the bark of alkaloids, the remaining steps of your approach are largely irrelevant (imo and I assume in the opinions of others who have commented in this thread).

By all means, feel free to share your approach, but some of the claims you've made are already at odds with what you've shown, regardless of the conclusion to the pictorial. Additionally, this approach is of no use to people who do not have the "lab toys" and if you replace that equipment with their more common counterparts, this approach is no different than many other STB, imo.

You say you're receptive to the critiques, but you don't seem to actually be engaging with the critiques that have been offered. To my mind, these critiques stand when the full pictorial is presented, but I'm happy to wait until you've shared the whole thing and then offer them again if they are still relevant.
Wiki โ€ข Attitude โ€ข FAQ
The Nexian โ€ข Nexus Research โ€ข The OHT
In New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested.
In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names.
ื’ื ื–ื” ื™ืขื‘ื•ืจ
 
1ce
#11 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:17:05 PM

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anrchy wrote:
If you are so against live criticism than I would suggest, You should have gotten it all together before making this thread. The forum doesnt just stop for you and I don't see why you are getting all up in arms because people are replying to a thread that is unfinished.

If one thing can be said about this forum, its that the criticism can seem harsh. If it offends you then you might want to re-evaluate how you take things.


Perhaps you are right. Critisism here seems like a whole lot of people not reading before they jump the gun and post. Snozzleberry seems like a very intelligent and knowledgeable person, and I value his imput. I do feel he was a little unfair and hasty though.

And to reply once more to snozz.

I refer to quality as a very clean, very smooth vaping spice with minimal loss by preventing clean ups down the road. Even 'dirty' spice is high purity and I will not bring up purity without a chromatagram in my hand.

I'm not trying to be unfair to home chemists, I'm using the tools I have and using practices I assume are safe/feasable for many people. I mentioned using H2SO4 as a dessicant and I'm pretty sure that post was deleted.

I do the best I can with my 9th grade education. Almost everything I know is based from downloading text books and self practice. So to me critisism is an operrunity to learn from more knowledgable people. I'm just not seeing that here.
 
1ce
#12 Posted : 11/14/2014 9:23:50 PM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
I think part of the reason you're getting the reaction you are is that the methodology you've presented so far is overcomplicated in both materials and approach when compared to the existing approaches. If you don't have the equipment presented here (and most don't) there's really not much utility, imo.

Additionally, you've made the claim that this approach superior as far as "accuracy" despite the fact that you're simply carrying out an STB with some "fancy" lab toys. As you can't yield more than the bark contains, and as we already have methodologies to which your approach is essentially identical (minus the lab toys) and that are capable of exhausting the bark of alkaloids, the remaining steps of your approach are largely irrelevant (imo and I assume in the opinions of others who have commented in this thread).

By all means, feel free to share your approach, but some of the claims you've made are already at odds with what you've shown, regardless of the conclusion to the pictorial. Additionally, this approach is of no use to people who do not have the "lab toys" and if you replace that equipment with their more common counterparts, this approach is no different than many other STB, imo.

You say you're receptive to the critiques, but you don't seem to actually be engaging with the critiques that have been offered. To my mind, these critiques stand when the full pictorial is presented, but I'm happy to wait until you've shared the whole thing and then offer them again if they are still relevant.


And I would like that. Most of my lab toys can be substituted with a humble sryinge. I could extract 100g mhrb with 2 gallons of solvent and vac-vap it down. Part of the delay has been thinking of materials I can substitute with. Sofar the most unressonable suggestions have only been to use a hot water bath for heating and a metal thermos/ball bearing to mix solvent with base.

I mix with a 3000ml stoppered erlenmeyer and suggest a stainless steel bottle. So your lab toys claim hardly holds water as well
;p
 
HippingTrippY
#13 Posted : 11/14/2014 10:31:25 PM

It's better to have things, and not be running out than it is to be running out and not be having things.


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I'm so looking forward to your photos of clear Shards Bro. Got this bookmarked. You have some envy generating equipment. I'm using pots and pans but you saw my white fluff. I'm telling you if this looks like you described and I believe you I couldn't be around that cause I would definitely run that right into my jugular LOL. Then I would hang out with tweekers and leave little stashes they would inject laying round.


"Further up and Further In"
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1ce
#14 Posted : 11/14/2014 11:15:48 PM

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Uhm. My equipment will never facilitate a birch reduction.

There's nothing wrong with pots and pans. I have my equipment because I wanted to learn chemistry. You don't need a home lab to extract DMT. All you need for really clean DMT is a little more patience than it usually takes to extract DMT. But the smooth clean vape is well worth the extra time spent IMHO.
 
anrchy
#15 Posted : 11/14/2014 11:52:48 PM

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One thing I would do is make the images smaller, create an outline in the beginning as a reference to the entire procedure, and highlight what makes this tek stand out in brief explanations during said steps.
Open your Mind (โ’ถ) Please read my DMT vaping guide (โ’ถ) Fear is the mind killer

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1ce
#16 Posted : 11/15/2014 1:31:18 AM

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anrchy wrote:
One thing I would do is make the images smaller, create an outline in the beginning as a reference to the entire procedure, and highlight what makes this tek stand out in brief explanations during said steps.

 
DreaMTripper
#17 Posted : 11/15/2014 9:34:05 AM

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Its a nice pictorial you have explained the steps well although nothing particularly different to a STB it does seem neat, not many things more annoying than bark soup sloshing all over your worktop and beyond!
Can you explain why you heat the base mix and what the benefit is? I understand heat speeds up reactions however I really think the heat produced when the lye mixes initially and a little bit of time is more than sufficient.
Have you tried a side by side test one where you use heat and one where you dont? Im guessing yield and end product wouldn't be significantly affected.
 
1ce
#18 Posted : 11/15/2014 9:43:51 AM

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I was asked what the aim of this tek was. It was so people who already had a functional understanding of extractions avoid this

And this

And all the other several million complaints about bad extractions. Snozzleberry may not see the point. Duh, he's brilliant, he don't need help. My goal is to (sayin it again) focus on accuracy.

What I mean by accuracy is:

If you follow the tek step-by-step you will always wind up with bright white-semi clear shards from the get go.

Impurities are removed from the get-go without the yield reducing recrystalization steps.

Anyway, been one hell of a day I'll finish this up after I rest a bit more.


 
1ce
#19 Posted : 11/15/2014 9:48:03 AM

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DreaMTripper wrote:
Its a nice pictorial you have explained the steps well although nothing particularly different to a STB it does seem neat, not many things more annoying than bark soup sloshing all over your worktop and beyond!
Can you explain why you heat the base mix and what the benefit is? I understand heat speeds up reactions however I really think the heat produced when the lye mixes initially and a little bit of time is more than sufficient.
Have you tried a side by side test one where you use heat and one where you dont? Im guessing yield and end product wouldn't be significantly affected.



Nah, probably not. I use the heat to help lyse the plant material freeing more of the DMT. I apologize there isn't more here. I wanted to finish it today but the day got longer in addition to not sleeping well. I'll have it done today. Well all but a couple pics but thats about it.
 
Earthwalker
#20 Posted : 11/15/2014 10:11:08 AM

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Ice there's a difference between criticism and critiquing and I can tell you now there is no intent to criticize you're technic or lab toys here .....
If you're extraction tek works for you that's great and if you want to share share after all this is a forum . But I think what you're missing is if you want to share with the masses share it with equipment and wording the everyday backyard alchemist can understand and relate too .....
And if you're main point of this tek is for pure clear shards without the clean up steps maybe you should explain this as that not a show and tell of you're lab equipment with little snippets in between the pics and you should've finished them points before publishing it .
But as far as we can tell so far this is the normal STB with all the unnecessary equipment which only confuses it . But I can't wait to see the end product ....Thumbs up
 
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