Several years ago a buddy of mine, given the time, would talk your ear off about how dosing Dextromethorphan(DXM) in consecutive doses to reach what is commonly called "plateau sigma," would result in a release of endogenous DMT. I mostly passed it off as a half baked theory concocted amidst excessive DXM use.

Copied and pasted from what I hope were reliable sources... Research suggests that DMT acts as an agonist at the sigma-1 receptor and DXMs mechanism of action includes acting as a non-selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor and also a sigma-1 receptor agonist. I am no pharmacologist by any means but after a few unexpected events, I have to wonder about a possible connection(or lack there of).

First began several years ago. Having some pure DXM HBr laying around, I decided to dose high on a whim. I cannot say for sure the dose however, it could easily have been upwards of 2+ grams. An extremely high dose(also dangerous and unnecessary) that I had used a few times before, however not in many years. What resulted was a harrowing journey that I wont get into details about aside from the fact that I experienced full blown open eyed hallucinations unlike anything I've encountered. Much was lost to amnesia until about a year ago when I experienced my first breakthrough dose of DMT. I was awestruck at the disc shaped geometric hallucinations that began to unfold because they were identical to ones I saw just as the DXM began to peak during that experience years ago. Had I not had this experience, I would think these visual effects were a DMT specific phenomena.

Next event, fast forward to several months ago when I began my more focused experimentation with DMT. At one point very early into my endeavours I began having what I could only define as HPPD(Hallucinogenic Persisting Perception Disorder) in the form of seeing rotating geometric discs with my eyes closed that were especially vivid when waking up in the morning. This lasted for about a week and a half to 2 weeks and puzzled me as I have not found a lot of info regarding HPPD occurring specifically from DMT use, especially as infrequently as mine. I should note that I have experienced 2 periods of persisting visual disturbances that lasted maybe a few months each. These were 10+ years ago and were caused by weekly use of LSD and 2C-I in separate instances.

The one thing that stands out as different during this time was that it seemed to coincide with my uncommon method for which I was medicating my depression.

Having suffered from crippling depression on a regular basis for nearly 20 years and having tried everything and beyond, the most consistently effective tool has been low(30-75mg) doses of DXM HBr that I would take daily to every 2 or 3 days, once or twice a day, depending on severity of depression. This would usually last a week, 2 at the most. It just so happens that this particular instance was the last time I have needed to medicate for depression so I cannot say that these persisting visual phenomena are a repeatable thing. All I can say is that they started after I dosed DMT a few days into my DXM cycle and then they went away within a day or 2 of ceasing my doses and have not returned. I had also dosed DMT about a week prior, and before this I did not for at least a month.

So while I could attempt to recreate the scenario, I’m reluctant to do so at this point because I have since made a major breakthrough as far as my depression is concerned so tinkering with my brain chemistry in such a way just isn't in my interest at the moment. Neither would I suggest others try. I’m just not convinced that DXM is completely harmless beyond its branded dose/usage.

I know this is questionable territory, considering countless possible factors but it all seems noteworthy still.. Thoughts, experiences, info, questions?

Hi.
Are you sure you/we/they/them/us need this plateau sigma stuff? We just looked it up and it says:
though DXM HBr side effects in small doses are relatively rare, a small percentage of *the population (depending on source between 1% -10%) exhibit a pharmacogenetic weakness of the cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6. In this group of *the population therapeutic doses of DXM HBr may cause loss of reality and prolonged psychotic episodes. It also says, the stuff was funded by the C I A.

*why this? cough cough cough (looks like an enemy product)

...for example, it can lead to high BP, fever of death due to serotonin syndrome, if taken with SSRI's or MAOI's .. so that is very bad news....can't use changa, rue, caapi, ayahuasca, 5-htp.....and the list goes on... who knows what it does when taken with spice?

You said we tried everything & beyond? Did you try Iboga? Ayahuasca? Meditation? Yoga? Shaman? ̶B̶̶r̶̶a̶̶h̶̶m̶̶a̶̶n̶? Qalandari dancing frenzy? Witness gazing? Birdness? If we haven't tried these and billion others we cannot use the pseudo-evangelical narration "we tried everything and beyond".

Hi Intezam. I was just recalling our previous discussion on beads shortly ago as I strung some more. The colors!

I am quite sure it is something I do not need actually. I explored DXM many years ago and still consider it to have been a worthwhile endeavour. I rarely did the consecutive high dose thing because it physically feels dangerous to me. Some pals of mine continue to do this despite my pleading to stop for their own well being.

The low doses reduced my emotions in a single dose and allowed me to function. I began using it this way long before finding out that Ketamine and other NMDA antagonists were being studied in the treatment of depression and showing results similar to my own. This helped ease my fears on such "minimal" usage.

But was EVERYTHING tried? No, of course not. Only what I was capable of relative to my state of mind and how I dealt with it at the time. Depression has a way of making anything (or even nothing) seem like everything and utterly useless on top of it.

The bright side of that all is that I worked through a number of life long issues in my first handful of DMT trips. And with such ease! A lot has changed in recent months and I no longer consider DXM to be a "necessary evil" for the foreseeable future. This is a great and wonderful thing but I remain fascinated by the experience.

..if STFU&LOVE live in the industrial waste and not feel depress, then we shall be seriously worried...

BTW: we use birdness method (47xrook, 16xjackdaw, 8xcrow, 4xmagpie, 1xjay & 14xsparrow)

This is the first I have really heard much about HPPD..... I thought those effects were good!?

Leave it to the doctors to tell me that those blissful reoccurring hallucinations are part of a disorder.... h3heh3

Intezam: I suppose you are correct. I suppose as long as the music doesn't stop, it really isn't all that bad. And I do love watching a white ibis(i think) hunting craw and fish at the park. So patient and precise, like a cat hunting mice.

AcaciaConfusedYah: I agree, it is far from a terrible affliction. It can make completing those necessary routine things a little more difficult though, when it is that much easier to just lay down, close my eyes, and forget I even exist.. Know what I mean?

DMTs psychedelic effect has been pretty thoroughly shown to be a function of 5-HTR agonism, it's presence as a sigma-1 receptor ligand appears to be incidental to it's entheogenic properties. Most of what I've read about the S1R is that it's implicated mostly in immune system function and pain perception.

S1R knockout mice didn't display any particularly dramatic changes in phenotype (I found one study that suggested that they were more prone to displaying depressive symptoms, if you think reduced time on the forced-swim is an accurate measure of depression), however, not much on hallucinatory or psychotic phenomena.

Blessings
~ND

I'm not going to get into all my use of dxm in the past as it is a blur and I have used it much to often to wanna write about all of it right now. I have struggled with dxm use alot in the past, just as much as if not more than I have struggled with opiate use. The opiates use did not seem leave very long lasting negative effects. The dxm most definitely did however. I have used dxm in small doses to combat depression as you mention doing and I have also taken massive doses (2gram range) multiple times a week as a young teenager. Those doses massively messed up my head and ability to talk for days and weeks on end, however small doses of dxm seem to do just as much damage in a sense because you tend to dose more frequently and for longer periods of time.

My advice is to NOT take dxm at all and to find other ways of getting out of depression. I don't have much first hand advice as I still struggle with depression but eating healthy ( fruits and vegetables and little meat or sugar) and lots of exercise seem to help alot.

Intezam had a lot of suggestions including some I haven't heard of such as witness gazing and birdness.

1). Witness gazing = Attempting full realization through the power of Beauty
2). Birdness = If 90 white Ibis's would follow you everywhere (like your own personal air force)

How can I get 90 white Ibis's to follow me everywhere? I am intrigued. I have always felt a strange connection with birds as is, sometimes I am able to get them to follow me it seems. It is odd

I can elaborate on the combination of the two. For a few years, I would take DXM in high doses (2 or 3 bottles) for 3 consecutive days weekly, then rest the other 4 days. To this day, I don't know how I functioned and had a job. I and my roommate looked after each other, as we dosed together and babysat each other, even though we were hardly capable of even doing that.

As to the depression. Doctors will prescribe you antidepressants because they are SSRI's. In other words, they block serotonin reuptake. Think of your brain as maintaining serotonin habits. As someone who also struggled with depression, I can attest to DXM's efficacy, because your serotonin levels are higher on it. However, you can achieve a similar effect by simply going to the pharmacy and picking up 5-HTP, which is the precursor to serotonin. If you take a pill a day for a while, your brain's habits will adjust, and you'll in general be in a better mood. Of course, people will serious depression issues may need time, patience, and lots of eating the right foods, since certain foods have more serotonin in them. The point is, though, that if you're smart about it you can take care of depression without antidepressants or DXM. Remember that food and exercise are always the best remedies.

Now, as for the DMT combination. There was a time period where I and my friend would dose DXM (about 2 or 3 bottles of the 20 liqui-gel pills) then subsequently smoke spice as we were peaking on DXM. As I'm telling you this, I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS. It could definitely cause serotonin syndrome. But for the sake of science, I'll tell you what happened. Instead of the typical breakthrough, the breakthrough was different in its feeling and structure. It honestly felt like being inside of a painting. I could see sculptures and lots of emotionally arcane feelings. Actually, no description will really do it justice. All I know is that hyperspace was certainly on a different wavelength, or at least my perception of hyperspace. Bear in mind that I don't plan on trying this again. A normal DMT trip is far more interesting to me and, in general, active/enlightening. But maybe I shed some light on the combination.

Well, this cannot be easily explained, anyway, this talk touches upon it (scroll foward to 51:18)



..if you got the time, it's pretty good from the beginning too...