sux man

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Baby step him back in. Explain dosing. BE RESPONSIBLE!
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thinking

Did it seem like he was about to swallow his tongue while going through the seizure?


Has your friend ever done any psychedelics before?

There's no "direct" reason to believe that you friend's seizure is related to an "overdose." Most people here will insist that it's IMPOSSIBLE to overdose--since it would be unlikely he could make the controlled movements necesary to take in more after a dose large enough to make him LOSE control. I guess it's POSSIBLE that your friend could have such tremendous lung capacity that he's able to take in far more per lungful than most other people.

Furthermore, I've never read anything to make me believe that seizures would be a response to an overdose (of course, in really huge overdoses, anything and everything is possible).

It's more likely that your friend has the beginnings of some sort of seizure disorder. He should DEFINITELY stop using all drugs for the time being, and consult a neurologist. Of course, the neurologist might try to blame the drug--but that's probably bullshit. Insist he give a reference where tryptamine-type drugs have caused seizures.

Seizures can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS--they cause BRAIN DAMAGE, and possibly DEATH. His seizure disorder could have a cause completely disconnected from DMT use, but that doesn't change the fact that WITH the disorder, he's now susceptible to seizures from DMT use.

Using anymore DMT (or ANY stimulant) is a VERY BAD IDEA--at least until he gets a better handle on what's going on by visiting a neurologist.

People can't "swallow their tongue." People having seizures have problems with BITING their tongues. People who are completely unconscious, and lying on their backs, sometimes completely relax their tongues so much that it bunches up at the backs of their throats and blocks their breathing....but you can't swallow your tongue.

There are people who suffer seizures from flashing lights - I wonder if the psychedlic patterns of hyperspace could induce a seizure for such a person?

That is a very interesting possibility.:idea:

hmm

There's no doubt (from your description) that your friend has a "classical" seizure. Sometimes they can happen once and never again. There's also the possibility that he is in fact epileptic--and knows it--but is embarrassed to tell people; many epileptics feel embarrassed by their condition.

If I were you (for all KINDS of reasons) I would absolute NOT allow your friend to use any drug (except maybe MJ) around you. Your friend could get hurt, and you could find yourself in legal trouble you don't want to be in...

psychedelics do increase the risk of convulsions. My friends told my I was convulsing on my high dose trip, but I wouldn't say I had a seizure.

People don't really want to admit that psychedelics have this risk, but I've seen several people seizure/convulse on psychedelics. Comes with the territory.

Be safe and refrain from psychedelics for now.

It's important to be aware that a "convulsion" is absolutely not the same thing as a "seizure." The description given by the OP clearly describes a seizure.

That's what I was thinking. I could easily see the visual effects of DMT triggering an epileptic seizure. I don't know much about epileptic seizures though... is it possible for a person to have late-onset epilepsy? I'm pretty ignorant on the topic.

(Edit: Apparently adult-onset epilepsy is possible)

Either way, a visit to the doctor would be good, and don't let the doc get away with just blaming the drug. This is the first I've ever heard of a seizure after taking DMT, and tons of people have smoked it, so clearly it's not a common side-effect.

Seizures can initiate at any time in a person's life. Only what might be termed "congenital epilepsy" would be expected to begin early in life. Certainly, they can be induced by certain drugs, or certain physiological states.

Photosensitive epilepsy IS a congental form of epilepsy. If the friend had that he would KNOW it (and, again, I think it's possible that the friend IS epileptic, KNOWS it, but has kept it secret from his friends).

I am not sure where you heard this but could you please give a source for this statement. This does not seem to be in the literature and I have never heard this before (not saying it is not true). Maybe in certain susceptible individuals? SWIM saw a drunk person black out for a second while on DMT.
It was scary as SWIM was intoxicated as well but he was fine after a few seconds. He also vomited after he blacked out. Most hallucinogens are relatively safe drugs if used within the recommended dosage range of course at over doses strange side effects can become common and death can occur with several.

DMT could trigger it. LSD can also.

I've known people who cannot use LSD bacause of it. Even a small amount of LSD would trigger it.

Tell him not to use it again. Switch to something else that doesn't trigger it.

That's my advice anyway.

Realize the following is just SWIM's experience before replying please...

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SWIM has epilepsy, it started when he was 16 and blah blah blah...

From his personal experience and experience of another family member with epilepsy, he has to conclude
that DMT does not irritate them. Don't hold him to it 100% though.

The biggest thing SWIM notes is that when he smokes DMT, his nerves are actually generally calmer as
it induces a half sleep state, even with the mental anxiety.

As for the "visuals causing seizure" well, in a sober person this is usually in response to
light stimuli and inability to correctly process it.
SWIM has never heard of inner visions inducing seizures in an epileptic that he's spoken to nor has
he read of anything alike while studying his condition.

I would strongly suggest your friend sees a doctor and tells him about what happened..
Not a dumb doctor either that will just blame it on the DMT but one that's willing to look at how DMT
actually affects the mind and the unlikelyhood that it was directly responsible.

I'm not sure where your friend is from but around here we've this beautiful "doctor-patient confidentially."

How sure are you of the purity of the spice your friend used?

I know this is fucked up sounding BUT, tell your friend to down like 8 beers in under 3 hours then go to sleep
for only 4 or 5 hours. See if he twitches during the first couple hours upon wakening.
If YES, see a doctor for sure.
If no well .. If he does have one of the common late onset epilepsies, it's acting really fucking weird.
Just a simple, SOMEWHAT reliable at home test .. lol.

I'm betting that those people are generally known to be susceptible to seizures, i.e., they are in fact epileptic and hadn't realized it (perhaps only suffering petit mal seizures), or haven't told their friends--who believe that the seizure was a "new" phenomenon for the person.

@tropane: I'm glad to hear that DMT is not seizure inducing for you. It's not necessarily true, however, that it would then be safe for ALL epileptics. Sensitivity could correlate to the actual location of the seizure-inducing area of the brain--which of course varies between sufferers.

Buddy, can I please point out that I intentionally put:
"Realize the following is just SWIM's experience before replying please..."

Yep, just his experience, and the experience of others he knows like him.
What I put in quotes though, I meant.. SWIM's not saying that everyone's mind is like his.. Not by any means.