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Mythbusters: Urban psychedelic legends Options
 
--Shadow
#141 Posted : 9/22/2014 8:28:58 AM

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steppa wrote:


universecannon wrote:
Many of us have taken high doses


Please define "high dose".


dreamer042 wrote:
4-5 grams is typically considered a strong dose


Throughout recorded time and long before, trees have stood as sentinels, wise yet silent, patiently accumulating their rings while the storms of history have raged around them --The living wisdom of trees, Fred Hageneder
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
universecannon
#142 Posted : 9/22/2014 8:48:31 AM



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steppa wrote:


universecannon wrote:
Many of us have taken high doses


Please define "high dose".

Quote:
dozens of times and described very psychedelic experiences with them here, and in other threads/chat, extensively.


I read reports of people describing a psychedelic experiences they got from smoking banana peals. Does this make them a psychedelic?


Quote:
It also goes best in combination with other techniques/substances, like weed, tryptamines, melatonin, darkness meditation, etc, obviously.


So...we agree that darkness meditation alone can give a visionary experience?

Quote:
But on it's own it is still extremely powerful in high doses.


What does powerful mean? Is the experience still powerfull in daylight? If not, I'd like to say that it isn't powerful.

Do we agree that psychedlic substances cause hallucinations no matter if there's light or darkness if the dose is high enough?

Quote:
If all you had was "Psychelogical effects and physical effects that come from uncertainty and imagination", rest assured that you only had a very very mild dose at best.


GOD said
Quote:
I slowly worked up from 3 gramms to 20 gramms on different ocasions in silence and darkness and nothing happened except a little aprehension .


Would you consider 20 gramms a mild dose?

Can we please define the difference between visionary and psychedelic/hallucinogenic?



Maybe take the time to actually read my post, because dreamer and I have already outlined the very rough dosages (which vary for everyone).

I never said it is ONLY psychedelic in silent darkness. Just that this helps a lot in manifesting it's deeper aspects. It manifests less readily than tryptamines.

This is getting ridiculous. I don't care if you don't believe the countless people who've tried it. Go work with it yourself if you want.



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
rOm
#143 Posted : 9/22/2014 9:00:57 AM

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I'd like to chime in, to confirm, if you start using harmalas, or rue seeds by its own, you can have visuals - and detailed ones, even in daylight (with closed eyes maybe) but these visuals aren't as colorful or geometric as DMT, mushrooms, LSD or mescaline etc..
If I recall well the dose was 400mg FB harmalas. The main reason why it's not very popular is the -sometimes extreme- nausea and motion sickness higher harmalas doses induce.
Also it is very frequent to have tracers with harmalas alone.
In its energy and effect on mind I found harmalas to be closer to the other classic psychedelic ibogaine.

Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
obliguhl
#144 Posted : 9/22/2014 9:19:05 AM

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Harmalas are psychedelic on their own, i've had closed eye visuals and auditory alterations drinkign only 30g caapi tea. They are dim, nevertheless there. Furthermore, harmalas facilitate a certain sensing of spaces, as if you'd telepathically "see" a certain place. That is pretty psychedelic on its own and becomes immensely apparant, once you add dmt.

There really is no need to discuss this, because it is a fact as far as i am concerned.
 
universecannon
#145 Posted : 9/22/2014 9:27:52 AM



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One of the most interesting things for me, having used them a lot, is their effect on the "imagination" (whatever that is...won't get into it here!). It seems to start going on some kind of psychedelic auto-pilot in these trances, and then next thing you know you realize you're literally seeing what you were just day dreaming about a minute ago. Jung actually used to do this and have visions start manifesting intensely - he called it active imagination and I would speculate that he had larger amounts of endogenous beta carbolines during them.

And their effect on the mind generally can be extremely bizarre, with thoughts splitting into separate autonomous trippy "idea complexes", for lack of a better term. The nature of your "thoughtchitecture" can get very strange and is impossible to really describe.

As you work with it, it can evolve a LOT in my experience (as with all of these things, of course). Most people haven't had OBEs with harmalas alone but it is very possible.



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
SnozzleBerry
#146 Posted : 9/22/2014 12:24:44 PM

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From my perspective, the people questioning the effects of harmalas simply don't have much experience with them, thre's nothing else I can attribute it to. It's reminiscent of when people come here saying that DMT is little more than some colors and seeing inanimate objects in their room warp/distort. Imo, it's apparent that people making such claims simply don't know what they're talking about.

From the harmala dosing thread:

SnozzleBerry wrote:
I'm always blown away by the effects that people report from doses that (to me) seem rather small. More and more I'm realizing that I'm a complete outlier with regards to my required doses. I have given my gf 200mg of harmalas extracted from rue on a regular basis for a month or two to help with PTSI, to wonderful effect. The one time I bumped her up to 225mg, she said it was a bit much and got some nausea from it, but otherwise, there were nothing but positive effects according to her.

For me, 200mgs or less is essentially a subconscious dose. It will have mental effects and soothes/relaxes me without any truly noticeable acute effects. From 250-300mg I will feel some very minor "floating" and "stoning" effects, not all that unlike effects from certain strains of cannabis, however, there is no mental fog. In addition, I usually have a general sense of well-being/comfort and feel fairly relaxed, perhaps even slightly sedated.

Between 300-400mg, depending on what I've eaten, if I've exercised and perhaps other factors of that day, I find that the aforementioned effects are enhanced significantly and a level of physical drunkenness begins to set in. Nausea sets in somewhere between 350-400mg, but is barely noticeable and comes in waves, if at all.

From 400-450mg, nausea is common although not overwhelming. Any purging is self-induced and tends to yield little to nothing (depending on what I've eaten, obviously...but the reflex does not feel very "deep" ). I have tracers and undeniable physical drunkenness along with yawning, difficulty reading or focusing on fine motor tasks but am overall functional and have gone out and done manual labor and other activities at this dose.

500-700mg ????

I have dosed myself in the 700-900mg range perhaps 3-4 times, mostly owing to my own forgetfulness when taking pre-measured capsules or dosing before getting a couple hours of sleep and then dosing again after waking up. These experiences have been full blown psychedelic experiences with subtle, yet full visual-field tracers/visuals, near-complete lack of fine motor control, incredibly diminished muscle coordination, full-on repeated purging (on one occasion from both ends), continual yawning, strong auditory hallucinations, dizziness, cramps and the most serene feelings of bliss, joy and well-being once it was all over, in at least 2 cases lasting several days (with one case lasting over a week). I do not recommend or advise taking these doses and cannot imagine what ridiculousness would ensue if any admixture was taken. In reading some of the older ethnobotanical literature that claims that harmalas are not psychedelic by themselves, I can only assume that the researchers in question did not take high enough doses to experience the acute effects that can be induced.


As to this:
GOD wrote:
I slowly worked up from 3 gramms to 20 gramms on different ocasions in silence and darkness and nothing happened except a little aprehension .

The only way I would believe this is if you had some of the weakest rue seeds ever encountered. And even then, it wouldn't demonstrate anything other than the fact that you had bunk seeds.
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DreaMTripper
#147 Posted : 9/22/2014 12:57:04 PM

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I dont know why this is being questioned they are without a doubt psychoactive and have a wide spectrum of effect that many have documented and to compare them to that farcial banana skin myth is just trolling.
 
--Shadow
#148 Posted : 9/23/2014 6:57:39 AM

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universecannon wrote:
Yea watermelons good. My favorite thing on mushrooms is oranges, Or maybe a mango

I remember a friend telling me in the club (back in the day), that the best thing for "coming down" off MDMA, Speed or LSD is to drink Citrus


http://boards.straightdo...showthread.php?t=174637:
Quote:
LSD is metabolized in the liver. The enzyme involved is unknown, but is probably one of the P-450 cytochromes. Cytochrome P-450 3A4 is significantly inhibited by grapefruit juice. Note the drug interaction warnings ! There may be a similar effect on LSD breakdown. This article claims that Oranges have a similar, but less pronounced, effect.
Acids, such as Vitamin C or citric acid, also affect the rate at which some drugs are absorbed. If the drug happens to be psychotropic, this can alter the users perception of the drug's actions.


oversoul1919 wrote:
"What in your opinion was opinion in what i said please ?"

Exactly what you said in your previous post, that DMT experience is a hallucination, and "not real". I respect that opinion, but as long as you state it as an opinion, not a fact. Once you go convincing me about that, while you, in fact, don't truly know what the heck is going on, I have a problem with you. Read the attitude page once again.

I think I should stop here, before this thread go into abyss. Have a nice day.


Seriously... are we REALLY entertaining the MYTH that hallucinogens don't cause 'hallucinations', but rather real manifestations of some kind?
Throughout recorded time and long before, trees have stood as sentinels, wise yet silent, patiently accumulating their rings while the storms of history have raged around them --The living wisdom of trees, Fred Hageneder
 
--Shadow
#149 Posted : 9/23/2014 7:37:45 AM

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rOm wrote:
I'd like to chime in, to confirm, if you start using harmalas, or rue seeds by its own, you can have visuals - and detailed ones, even in daylight (with closed eyes maybe) but these visuals aren't as colorful or geometric as DMT, mushrooms, LSD or mescaline etc..
If I recall well the dose was 400mg FB harmalas. The main reason why it's not very popular is the -sometimes extreme- nausea and motion sickness higher harmalas doses induce.


I think I'm gonna ask my GVG tonight... Very happy

...I'll report back tomorrow
Throughout recorded time and long before, trees have stood as sentinels, wise yet silent, patiently accumulating their rings while the storms of history have raged around them --The living wisdom of trees, Fred Hageneder
 
SnozzleBerry
#150 Posted : 9/23/2014 10:04:55 AM

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--Shadow wrote:
Seriously... are we REALLY entertaining the MYTH that hallucinogens don't cause 'hallucinations', but rather real manifestations of some kind?

Seeing as we can't even prove waking reality is "real" in an objective sense (and have numerous threads that demonstrate just how contentious such discussions become), this statement is rather absurd.
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Mistletoe Minx
#151 Posted : 9/24/2014 1:17:00 AM

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Quote:

Quote:
Seriously... are we REALLY entertaining the MYTH that hallucinogens don't cause 'hallucinations', but rather real manifestations of some kind?


Seeing as we can't even prove waking reality is "real" in an objective sense (and have numerous threads that demonstrate just how contentious such discussions become), this statement is rather absurd.


This kind of nihilism seems self defeating to me. But, even so, if we can't even prove that waking reality is really 'real' why is it then absurd to suggest that DMT visions are also not really real?

 
SnozzleBerry
#152 Posted : 9/24/2014 9:06:58 AM

omnia sunt communia!

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Mistletoe Minx wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
Seriously... are we REALLY entertaining the MYTH that hallucinogens don't cause 'hallucinations', but rather real manifestations of some kind?


Seeing as we can't even prove waking reality is "real" in an objective sense (and have numerous threads that demonstrate just how contentious such discussions become), this statement is rather absurd.


This kind of nihilism seems self defeating to me. But, even so, if we can't even prove that waking reality is really 'real' why is it then absurd to suggest that DMT visions are also not really real?


Nihilism? Hardly.

Making absolute statements about the reality or unreality of these experiences and their components is absurd because we simply don't know.

We don't know.

So if we don't know, acting incredulous about any of the myriad of possibilities is rather premature.

And even if some things may be more probable than others, we have no clue if the "truth" even falls into the realm of things we can actually conceive of.

At this point, I'd recommend anyone unfamiliar with gibran2's improbability of hyperspace threads to take a read.

The Improbability of Hyperspace
The Improbability of Hyperspace Part II


The only reason I interjected into this thread was to suggest that overly certain statements about the nature of these experiences don't make sense. Perhaps one day we will have sufficient understandings to make more concrete statements about what is or is not happening, but today is not that day.
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anrchy
#153 Posted : 9/24/2014 9:33:19 AM

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Cant it be a hallucination and real at the same time?

Anyways, what about the claim that drinking orange juice will potentiate mushrooms. Is that a myth?
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3rdI
#154 Posted : 9/24/2014 9:40:56 AM

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would that be to do with the lemon tek? Id guess it was a similar action with OJ as it is with lemon juice.
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
anrchy
#155 Posted : 9/24/2014 11:32:14 AM

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I was always told a long time ago that if you start to come down off your peak to drink oj/sunny delight/eat vitamin c drops to bring it back.
Open your Mind () Please read my DMT vaping guide () Fear is the mind killer

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#156 Posted : 9/24/2014 3:21:57 PM
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Ime, harmalas taken in high enough dosages, especially in darkness/silent darkness, will bring about visions.

The more you work with them, as far as being consistent in the dosing, sensitivity arises over time, and eventually less is needed to get there.
 
universecannon
#157 Posted : 9/24/2014 3:23:47 PM



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--Shadow wrote:


Seriously... are we REALLY entertaining the MYTH that hallucinogens don't cause 'hallucinations', but rather real manifestations of some kind?


The presumptions that sorround this sentence are utterly ridiculous imo

Reality as we normally experience it might as well be a "hallucination" (whatever those "are"...) to begin with, being that it is always in some way mediated via a cascade of neurotransmitters.



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
--Shadow
#158 Posted : 9/24/2014 11:52:35 PM

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Let me try to articulate my meaning rationally and not philosophically....

The sense that I am talking about "real", is in the case of you and me seeing a 'rock'.
Our brains are effectively only constructing a model of the external world in our consciousness.

What WE see (model) as rock, is very differently to what is modeled at a nano scale (which is mostly empty space).

We could go back and forth with your perspective and a rock would never be 'real' in a sense... It's only a model that you construct in your mind...

But for the majority of people and scientists... the rock IS there (objectively), and it is very 'real' in the sense I am talking about (no matter how the mind has constructed it)

Now... would I go as far as saying there are actually 'rocks in your head' (or machine elves for the argument)... probably not... (but don't tempt me Smile )


Back to harmalas FB... I'm been super busy these last couple of nights to try myself, but I will definitely be doing this weekend.
Throughout recorded time and long before, trees have stood as sentinels, wise yet silent, patiently accumulating their rings while the storms of history have raged around them --The living wisdom of trees, Fred Hageneder
 
anrchy
#159 Posted : 9/25/2014 2:54:42 AM

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Only because we have the means to measure the existence of said rock. We do not yet have the tools to measure whether or not "hallucinations" differ from the rock so NOTHING can be said about it. Add in the fact that we can experience hyperspace but cant prove it doesnt exist warrants the possibility of it existing. Rather than say the christian god, who we cannot visit on demand so we have zero proof of his existence.
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Mistletoe Minx
#160 Posted : 9/25/2014 3:42:52 AM

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@SnozzleBerry

Quote:
Nihilism? Hardly.


I think if you deny even the possibility of knowledge then that is nihilism.

Quote:
at this point, I'd recommend anyone unfamiliar with gibran2's improbability of hyperspace threads to take a read.


I read them a while back to be honest. I don't find Gibran's analogy persuasive. Following it I find I must say that the ancient view that apples are driven towards the ground by internal spirits is as likely as Einstein's theory that gravity is the curvature of space-time. Yet, I can use Einstein's theory to make far many more predictions about the state of world and far more precise ones than I can with the ancient view. So, despite agreeing that Einstein's theory is not the final word on the state of reality, clearly it is closer to the truth in some sense. Given that, I think the idea that the two theories are equally likely is a reductio for Gibran's argument.
 
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