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Did I witness a serotonin syndrome attack? Options
 
acapuchinu
#1 Posted : 9/15/2014 11:03:08 AM

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I did ayahuasca this past Thursday with a few friends. One of them did it with us for the first time and didn't mention to me she takes ADD medicine sometimes. About 2 hours into the trip she passed out AMD had a bit of muscle spasms, confusion, , then later puked (possibly from tannins) I think she was sweating a bit.

How can I know if this was serotonin syndrome or not? Is it possible?
 

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kerelsk
#2 Posted : 9/15/2014 2:12:53 PM

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Ooh, it's extremely dangerous to mix ayahuasca and amphetamine-like stimulants, it's a good thing your friend pulled through.

Most likely she did experience a mild form of serotonin syndrome, and should try to be more careful about drug interactions if she values her health and sanity. But hey, how can you be 100% certain what was happening?

Do what you can, read about MAOI diets, and make sure to question people about drug interactions before they take aya. This is one of the cases where you *could* die pretty easily at a certain dose, so it's important to take it seriously.

Really though, glad nobody was seriously injured, good luck! Smile
 
acapuchinu
#3 Posted : 9/15/2014 2:18:41 PM

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I know about the maoi diet and have never had problems. Unfortunately seems not to be the case for her.

In the end she was fine. It was really scary while it happened.

 
MrVortex
#4 Posted : 9/15/2014 3:13:17 PM

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Probably not serotonin syndrome I think, but something at least equally dangerous. Most ADD medications work on dopamine, not serotonin (Ritalin for example), but dont mix with MAOI's. Its leads to high blood pressure, heart palpitation, seizures. Its probably lucky that the MAOI's were from rue/caapi (I take), instead of a pharmaceutical MAOI.
 
acapuchinu
#5 Posted : 9/15/2014 3:18:59 PM

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Yeah, rue and caapi are much safer, reversible ftw
 
AcaciaConfusedYah
#6 Posted : 9/15/2014 3:32:58 PM

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If you were the person who provided the stuff, it might be a responsible move to start asking all your friends if they have any current health conditions or on any meds before dosing them. If something bad happens to them, and you provided.... well... you know how that stuff can go.

If you weren't the person dosing, it's still a good idea to ask the same questions. Not everyone is aware. It would suck if you witnessed something bad happening to a friend due to mixing the wrong compounds.
Sometimes it's good for a change. Other times it isn't.
 
pitubo
#7 Posted : 9/15/2014 10:44:02 PM

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acapuchinu wrote:
I did ayahuasca this past Thursday with a few friends. One of them did it with us for the first time and didn't mention to me she takes ADD medicine sometimes.

Always ask people what medications they take and then look it up on the internet for possible interactions with MAOI and RIMA's. Always ask for the exact names of the medications, as e.g. people diagnosed with ADD may in practice be prescribed many different types of medication, like antipsychotics, SSRI's, dopaminergics, etc. Don't assume anything, doublecheck it. Involve the person taking the medications in the research - the increased awareness and regained sense of responsibility for one's own neurochemistry may be as valuable as an ayahuasca experience.

Do not hesitate to ask the doctor who prescribed the medications about any possible interactions with ayahuasca. A doctor should treat such questions with discretion and confidentiality and should always have the health of the patient as the priority, especially in relation to any medications prescribed by that doctor. If you trust your doctor to prescribe you medications, you should also trust this doctor to assess any risks following from interactions of these medications with ayahuasca ingeredients.

acapuchinu wrote:
About 2 hours into the trip she passed out AMD had a bit of muscle spasms, confusion, , then later puked (possibly from tannins) I think she was sweating a bit.

I have had similar symptoms on pharmahuasca after eating falafel (contains chick peas) shortly before taking the pharmahuasca. Apart from tyramine, chick peas may contain a host of other alkaloids, especially if not prepared correctly. I am somewhat sensitive to tyramine when taking harmalas and am familiar with its effects, but this experience was very different and a bit frightening even. It was a reminder to be careful about foods ingested shortly before taking ayahuasca. Many times there is no problem, sometimes it turns nasty.

acapuchinu wrote:
How can I know if this was serotonin syndrome or not? Is it possible?

From the limited information you have given, it is hard to tell. You should ask a qualified doctor, who will know what to look for and what to ask for in order to make a proper diagnosis.
 
acapuchinu
#8 Posted : 9/16/2014 7:37:09 AM

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Thanks guys.
 
obliguhl
#9 Posted : 9/16/2014 7:50:21 AM

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Quote:
I did ayahuasca this past Thursday with a few friends. One of them did it with us for the first time and didn't mention to me she takes ADD medicine sometimes.


As someone who is more experienced, it is your responsibility to inform your friends about possible interactions with other drugs. Good for her ... - and you, that she has survived it.
 
 
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