Just a few points...


You do realize you're posting this on the DMT-Nexus, yes?


I'm not sure I see the connection between an anthology on DMT and irresponsible youtube videos, DMT DUI, or other irresponsible use.


Again, not sure what this has to do with this anthology, specifically.


First of all, DMT is already illegal, so no worries, nothing we can do will get it banned, that's already happened

Second, I will dispute your claims as to why the "authorities" banned it and why drugs in general are criminalized. You must understand, the drug war is not based in fact, it's not based in logic, and it's not based in reason. The drug war exists out of a desire for control of the population and because it's profitable. You can speculate on a million reasons why this or that substance was criminalized but ultimately, it boils down to control, profit, and racism (mustn't forget the racism).

See, creating a "criminal element" of society through laws makes certain communities vulnerable. When you can destabilize communities through socio-economic means and then make their options legally vulnerable, it gives you a great amount of control over these "surplus" populations. Of course, with that sort of control and the perceived legitimacy of the legal system, you can stock prisons and manufacture all sorts of wonderful stuff using slave labor, then turn around and outcompete companies who use a less enslaved labor force. So let's not simplify the issues of criminality related to drugs when they clearly tap into many of the systemic failings of capitalism.


I would suggest that numerous experiences with DMT over the past however many years have given me far more appreciation and respect for the molecule than any documentary ever could.


1) DMT has reached the masses...TSM is one of the top movies on Netflix
2) The potential for harm from this book is no greater than that created by the Nexus (and is honestly probably less)
3) DMT is already banned, it can't get more banned
4) The potential for truly shifting overall public opinion through this book is minuscule. Let's be realistic. It's an important book, but neocons are not going to be persuaded by anything in it.

I've always thought your methods of administration post was a wonderful compilation of the available information. If you would like to contribute it to the anthology, please send an email to thedmtbook /at/ gmail.com. It makes it significantly easier to keep track of.

I'm not going to argue your points my friend. You seem to know your stuff. I only wanted to emphasize the importance of creating a context and feel to the book which educates the reader with additional knowledge and respect. I am aware my arguments are bold. One again, sorry about that. Hope you can see the point I tried to make in a big picture.

And yes, sure thing, ones I get the text updated, I will email it. Love to contribute. Is there a deadline for that?

No worries, I understand why you're concerned. Set and setting apply to more than just trips

As to the dealines:
Priority deadline: APRIL 21, 2013
Final deadline: MAY 15, 2013

Could this be author ? Cyb found it his pocket.

I'm glad you say you understand. But I've been thinking over my concern, including the post I wrote and your reaction. And I think I might have formulated my message in a way which led you to not fully understand certain aspects of what I wanted to say. May I elaborate on that?

By the way, I'm still curious as to what made you guys decide to compile a book?

Cheers

You are an autonomous, sentient being...my permission is hardly relevant


I don't really understand the question. There is a dearth of publications on DMT. Knowledge > Ignorance, thus book

Ok well, I'll try to illustrate what I mean by using Salvia and LSD as an example

Salvia is a class 1 schedule drug in the states now. Not to make a cheap prison work force out of Salvia users I think. Neither to protect public health. The plant is harmless: non toxic and non addictive. I think it's not even about stopping people gaining power by making money distributing substances outside the regulated system (of taxes). Salvia has too few users for that and again is not addictive. So what is the reason for this harmless plant to now be on a list next to heroin and crack?

Established powers seem to be putting a lot of effort in stopping the public use of psychedelic substances. They have effectively done this in the past and will continue to try in the future. Why ban natural substances in the first place? Polluting the public domain with fear and propaganda, giving plants and their users a bad reputation? I won't attempt to answer this. But one thing is for sure: anyone experienced with psychedelics knows that the official reasons governments give to ban them can't be the real issue of the matter.

Personally I think it would be good thing if a bigger portion of people experiences DMT. In a respectful manner, with the right mentality, passed on from one to the next, according to traditional ways, or through newly developed mindsets. Maybe the spread of inspiration that could follow would even be a catalyst for change in society. A new wave of inspiration first expressed through art and music. It could take mainstream spirituality to an other level. Make us rethink the cosmos and ourselves. Whether this would actually happened is uncertain. But the possibility of it happening exists. This holds hope. Therefore I believe aiding the spread the DMT in a safe and respectful manner, be it gradual and limited to those ready - may their number grow, is a good thing. I myself feel good about contributing and aiding the spread of the DMT experience by sharing knowledge and showing people how.

However, there is a flip-side to the growing popularity of DMT. A risk arises if its use increases too rapidly too fast. A Amazonian tribal jungle women interviewed in a documentary about DMT was outraged at the thought of global recreational use of DMT. She must have her reasons and I for one share her feelings. An other complication that arises is the following. People being people will do silly things under influence of DMT. The media being the media will dramatize these events. The government being the government will ban and criminalize the use of associated plants and impose propaganda schemes to indoctrinate the masses against it before sufficient time passes for an unbiased public opinion to form. Society being society will not accept anything to do with DMT anymore. No funding for scientific research, no legal medical use, eg. psychological therapies, curing addictions, helping cancer patients accept their fate, etc. DMT users will be looked down upon and placed in the category messed up dope heads.

This is not a paranoid doom scenario in my head. It's what happened to LSD in the 60's, also explained in TSM. First LSD was only used in closed circles of elite society. All of a sudden it rapidly became the mainstream hippie drug of choice. Without traditions and/or rituals, its users were lost and they acted accordingly. When sufficient cases of undesired behavior presented themselves, the government banned LSD as it "caused psychoses" and "made people jump off a buildings". Some believe in a link between people promoting LSD and the CIA. Whether the government actually aided the fast spread of LSD is uncertain and won't be discussed here. But the fact is that it was the rapid uncontrolled spread of LSD use which eventually gave the government sufficient reason to ban it followed by a global disrespect for psychedelics.

DMT use is increasing and the spread can't be stopped. We can't control the media, authorities and government. But we are not powerless. Especially not grouped together armed with info as we are here. What we could do is to educate the public about the plants, their compounds and how to properly use them. To form a public opinion about DMT and it's use before the media / government indoctrinates the public based on a couple of examples of stupidity / people with mental illnesses. This is where your book comes in.

From what I make of it, the book will describe what DMT is, how to make it and how to administer it. It will be written in an accessible level aimed at the general public. This is a big difference from scientific papers on DMT so far. Whether the book will actually have a significant impact is uncertain. However, the possibility of it having an impact exists. This holds a responsibility. Especially during this specific time. We are at a point where DMT is entering mainstream consciousness. From when almost no one knows of its existence, to where most people will have heard of it.

In this crucial stage more people are getting introduced to DMT without prior knowledge of its use and effect. As the 60's showed with LSD, the absence of traditions and/or rituals can cause problems. Supplying the government / media with cases to influence the public against it, before an unbiased public opinion has time to form. Personally I think the dudes in the hippie bus traveling through the States in the 60's distributing free LSD for all to try thought they were doing a good deed. Little did they know that they were actually aiding the uncontrolled spread, which gave reason to ban the substance they tried to promote in the first place, and creating a global disrespect against it.

About the book.. What effect could it have if it does manage to reach its fullest potential (say: if it becomes as popular as TSM). Will it just inform everyone how to make and use DMT? Creating a increase in DMT availability and users? Or will it aid in educating the public about something more, as TSM did and succeeded in my opinion. Helping the fight against the propaganda war. Telling the story from the other side. DMT is very powerful and most respect will be learned from the experience itself. But first of all, the bigger the increase in users without understanding, the more cases of irresponsible use will occur. And second, its not only about the people who use it, its also about the people who don't, these make up the majority of public opinion. Therefore education of knowledge and mindset is important, for all.

DMT as an isolated compound is banned. But you can still buy DMT containing plant material in shops (and e-shops) legally, with a receipt, included a VAT tax bill. Some people on Nexus express concern about DMT's growing popularity. They fear that they might not be able to buy plants in the future anymore. They might be right. Supply will be limited as global demand for plant material rises. Ones the government has sufficient cases of irresponsible use, they might ban high % DMT plants, disabling making homemade DMT. We might not be able to stop the government from banning DMT containing plants in the future. But we can help to contribute as much as we can, to aid in creating a positive public opinion. This is what matters most. Public opinion can bend back laws in a later stage. Marijuana is now legalized in some states. Public opinion can help to accept medical use for compounds illegal on the street. And if we're very lucky, a positive public opinion might even achieve aiding that the plants won't be banned in the first place, and we can keep on ordering them as we can now.

So my question is, have you guys thought of what you want to achieve with this book? Or is the goal simply to give out as much information as possible? If so, wouldn't it be a good idea as the popularity of DMT is growing, to also use this book as a tool to incorporate a layer of informative knowledge, educating the reader about in which mindset to use DMT and so forth? To shine our respect and opinion of the compound to the readers through the subtext of the book? Whether or not we succeed is uncertain. But the least we can do is try our best to walk the road we believe is right. When it comes to helping out the plants and our to be expended minds against the conservative control systems we live in, it sure wouldn't hurt to try.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum:





Do you have any specific information about this documentary?



It's a compendium, not a cookbook.

Who determines what the "right mentality is?
Who determines what is "traditional," especially in societies that do not have "traditional" customs surrounding these plants/substances?
Who determines which "newly developed mindsets" are acceptable and which are not?



Can you explicitly state what you are claiming here?


What is the definition of recreational use? Discussions of this sort have gone on for many, many thread pages here. You can't make a claim using loaded terminology and claim that it is clear-cut, especially when you are talking about cross-cultural understandings of reality. I know many people here who approach DMT with the utmost respect, yet claim many of their experiences to be recreational. Is traditional, ritual use the only way to approach DMT or other entheogens? Certainly not, imo, but I would not be surprised if many indigenous ( or other) people disagreed with this viewpoint. That's understandable and acceptable; the multiplicity of cultures worldwide seems to present it as a logical circumstance.


Imo, this is a prohibitionist argument. "People can't make choices and act rationally for themselves, therefore we need to arbitrate what knowledge is available to them."


Imo, you're 40+ years too late on this. DMT is already illegal. Plant material containing DMT is already illegal (but frequently not enforced...except when it is). The media is already full of propaganda and the public opinion is already biased. Society generally does not accept anything having to do with DMT. The landscape of widely-accepted DMT research is already fairly treacherous. DMT users are currently viewed by society at large as little more than junkies, with extraction busts being equated to meth cooks.



Agreed, it's the reality that we live in today.



I'm not clear on why you think the book will describe "how to make DMT," but that's not the case. Second, I don't see how that is any different than the Nexus, a point that I already brought up. Using your criteria, The Nexus poses infinitely more risk than any work we could produce. period. And yet, you are a member of this community, presumably without the objections you have raised to a book. Can you explain this apparent contradiction to me?


Distributing substances and distributing knowledge are fundamentally different acts.


The government will ALWAYS find a reason to criminalize that which it feels threatened by. This is a major function of the government. What is "criminal" is an ever-moving target, left to the government's discretion. The justification can always be tweaked. The original justification for criminalizing cocaine and marijuana were firmly rooted in racist fantasies.

Criminality is used to make communities vulnerable. This has been seen time and time again throughout human history. No matter what was done, entheogens would have been criminalized. They (and many of the people who use them) are fundamentally at odds with industrial consumer cultures and therefore present a threat to the fundamental structure of society as it currently stands. This is unacceptable, from a governmental standpoint, and therefore must be excised.


Not true. The CSA explicitly states that if you know that any material contains DMT (or any other scheduled substance), that material is illegal for you to posses. See: On the Legal Status of DMT Source Plants in the US (with a discussion of the religious use defense)


This appears to be an argument for restricting availability to those "already in the know." As we were all, at some point, unaware of the existence of DMT, that seems rather flawed, to me.


Again, just to reiterate, it is already illegal to possess these plants if you know they contain DMT. Public opinion can't prevent these plants from being criminalized, as they are already criminalized. The government has and will continue to crack down when possible/easily executable, but there are too many plants and too many networks.

Honestly, you could probably make a decent argument that after government crackdowns, the only people who actually lose out on the ability to procure plants are the least knowledgeable/plugged-in to the entheogenic community. In theory, that would mean that only people with a greater level of understanding would have access to these plants/molecules...but let's be real.

There are far too many sources for DMT-containing plants to ever be banned out of existence. Australia was contemplating it at one point and was looking at criminalizing hundreds if not thousands of plants. Good luck with that! Prohibition is always a losing model...it can't be anything but.


The goal is to disseminate information, that is what we aim to achieve. I don't understand the dichotomy you are presenting. The work will include numerous views/voices on a whole host of topics, spanning the width and breadth of DMT and the DMT experience.

Youtube: "JungleTrip - Ayahuasca". I think it was this one, and somewhere near the end.


Indeed, there is no simple answer for this.


I'm claiming the same will happen as happened to LSD in the 60's.


I've seen the discussions. I don't use it traditionally myself either. I think the key is intention. It's not why you use it and how, its the intention that matters. And a simple example how to pass this on could be: If I introduce DMT to friends and they want to try, I tell them that we must plan an entire evening to do it properly and they must be properly rested and fit and prepared for a very special, deep, life changing event.


I wish reality was different, but yes, I believe people need this.


Wiki: "In the USA, dried root bark of Mimosa had been considered a "grey area" item for a long time. However, recent efforts by the D.E.A. appear to be focusing on eliminating internet sales of the bark."

I can't disagree more with being 40 years too late. In my opinion the tipping point of DMT entering public awareness is now. Yes DMT entered Western society a while back. And if you've been using it since then, you will have seen a big increase in users and media publicity. But that's comparing it to none. What I see is that most people who have used or use psychedelics haven't tried DMT yet. DMT isn't nearly as popular as LSD or shrooms. Meaning, there is still room for growth. Much more growth than up to now.

Also, when we talk about public awareness, it's not only about the number of users. Its mainly about mainstream public opinion. Everyone has heard of LSD and XTC, everyone. But hardly anyone of the 'mainstream' population has heard of DMT yet. Let alone know what it is. Disagree? Go out on the street and ask 100 random people. I think if you do this experiment 40 year ago, 5 years ago, now, 5 years from now.. That the difference between how many people have heard of DMT 40 years ago and 5 years ago is much, much, smaller than the difference between 5 years ago and now. And even more people will have heard of it 5 years from now. There is no opinion of society at large of DMT yet as with Shrooms and LSD, as society at large hasn't heard of DMT yet. I believe we still have a window of time to get our opinion across to the masses before they are indoctrinated by the government / media.


I thought it described how to make it because I read 'DMT Extraction' in the topic lists. So it doesn't then, that good I guess, thanks for clearing that up. As for Nexus.. I disagree with the nexus posing infinitely more risk than a book. New users get lured in. First, because they have questions about teks and how to smoke. Then, they get involved in the community and are brought into contact with the views and opinions of others. Nexus creates a platform and brings people together. So much potential for positive influence through interaction and new understandings and achievements through collaboration. That's how I see Nexus. That's why I'm here.


That sounds like we can't do anything about it and there is no hope. I disagree.


Re phase: DMT as an isolated compound is banned. But you can still buy DMT containing plant material in e-shops legally, and in a couple of countries even legally in certain shops...


I believe public opinion might be able to decriminalize them at a later stage, as is happening with Marijuana.


Until they change the law from blacklisting stuff you can't use, to whitelisting stuff you can use (and criminalizing everything els). But that's an other story.


I'm not attacking your book. I'm just saying, if your writing it anyway, why not incorporate a goal into the subtext, which helps to counter the psychedelics criminalization campaign we're up against?

To be clear, I think the book is a good idea. I just wanted to make a point. Which is, what the effects of a rapid increase in DMT users can lead to, and how this book could be structured and used to aid this process in a sustainable way. If you understand the point i'm trying to make, you will see my intention is positive, I just care, that's all.

About Salvia, It seems I was misinformed that it was fully banned throughout the States. But thats beside the point. Let me try to illustrate my point with the following sources this time:

Legal status of Salvia divinorum
Salvia: the Leaf and the Law
Brett's Law
DrugFacts: Salvia
This shows the link between the media and enforced laws. In the United Kingdom, following a single local newspaper story. As well as in Delaware, following a single suicide. As I said before: a handful of people take psychedelics and do irresponsible things, the media then blames psychedelics to be the core cause of their behavior, the government then enforces new laws to ban the substances. Whether or not this is a deliberate act is interesting to think about, but irrelevant for the topic at hand. What matters is how information is channeled through the media, influencing public opinion and triggering new laws.

Can we only stand by helplessly, viewing this process taking place? No. We can participate in this battle. That is, we to can spread knowledge influencing public awareness with our point of view. We may not control the traditional media, but we do have the Internet. If Drug Inc makes a negative documentary about DMT, we can post comments on their website. As we can on topics as these. Other than spamming websites, we can do much more on the Internet. As we do on Nexus, we can group together and positively influence new users through interaction and collaborate together leading to new understandings and achievements.

So how can we collaborate against the media propaganda - criminalizing situation? We must find a way to win over the public opinion. How? There are two things we can do: 1) Try to limit irresponsible use 2) Counter the information war of biased views with our own sources and knowledge. Even if DMT and MIAO plants are 100% banned world wide which we can't do anything about, the public opinion can turn back these law in the future. It's the public opinion we must try to win.

Anyone notice how 'popular' DMT is becoming?
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. We do have some control. There is still hope (be it in the long run). Why not educate users and the public with our point of view? Its the least we can do in the battle against psychedelics. So, what I'm trying to say is, if you're writing a book about DMT, why don't you incorporate these goals in it? How? For example, combine it with the following:

Open Hyperspace Traveler - What it is

That context & subtext would be good have incorporated in your book. With a focus on educating users, potential users and curious non users. Maybe also something about the interaction between media, public opinion and laws. This all to advocate safe use, win public acceptance and increase non biased awareness of DMT / psychedelics.


If you ask for suggestions, these are mine: please advocate safe use, respect, set and setting

I mainly meant, please dont forget to include something which The Open Hyperspace Traveler Course and Mission Statement of CEL hope to achieve. That's all.

Thinking back of this discussion, I now believe you are right in terms of the DMT experience itself causing the biggest respect for DMT. It is indeed a self correcting experience with therapeutic effects. We shouldn't worry too much. I'm sure the book will be a great read, looking forward to reading it!

Are there any updates on this project?

What stage is it in?

I'm interested in know what came of this.


Thank you,
wearepeople

Wondering what ever became of this?

It's still in the pipeline, having undergone various reshufflings as people's schedules dictated shifting levels involvement. The current outline looks a bit different than the initial proposition, but it's still in the works!

Rak and I should be chatting about the remaining steps once he gets back from Peru. We potentially have a publisher and a solid cast of contributors. I'll be happy to update as things solidify.

Any updates on this? Sounds like a pretty great project.

Blessings
~ND

Time to give this renewed energy indeed.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

so was there ever a book or e-zine ?


thanks Bez