As an atheist and being active in that community as well the psychedelic community who spends a lot of time studying these subjects I have never heard of any atheist assert they do not believe in consciousness. I don't even understand how that statement makes any sense. How can anyone not believe in something they directly experience every moment they are alive? The very act of denying consciousness requires consciousness. The evidence for consciousness is consciousness who disagrees with that? . It is not fully understood and there are many questions science and research are trying to answer to build a model of understanding but nobody to my knowledge denies that there is consciousness? More importantly would you please explain how a person recognizing consciousness equates to harboring spiritual beliefs? I don't understand that assertion at all.

There are so many negative fallacious ideas about atheism but I will only address what pertains to your reply quoted above. For starters you need to define what is spirituality in reference to your usage of the word. One thing that is for certain is if you ask 10 people what spirituality is you will probably get 10 different answers. There are literal definitions such as "matters pertaining to the human spirit" and there are poetic uses of the word. Poetically I use the word to describe aspects of my world view quite often I do not believe we have a soul/spirit or in a divinely holy spirit but I see my love and appreciation of things like the natural world as a type of poetic spirituality.

Although I do not believe your intentions here were malicious but as an atheist and psychedelic explorer I do find your words insulting and condescending. Maybe even arrogant. The reasons are because to think because a person does not accept claims of the supernatural or spirit in the literal definition used by some, that atheists are somehow not getting deep insights of understanding, healing, benefit,and joy from their enthogen use is absurd. How does a lack of belief in spirit make the greater understanding of ones self as well as the world we live in make a persons psychedelic experience any less meaningful than a person of faith? That's a pretty bold statement that requires justfication.

You can not justifiably make claims about the benefits or lack there of obtained by an individual through altered states unless you can enter their mind and emotions. It is simply your opinion and a very short sighted and judgmental one at that. To tell someone they are in spiritual denial and their personal use of these substances, is as you stated, "pointless" is wildly inappropriate.

Coincidentally I wrote an essay last week for an online zine about religion and atheism titled "Finding depth and meaning in the atheist world view" It is a very good explanation of my worldview and how I have a type of poetic spirituality. Have a read if you dont mind. Its just a short exerpt of the essay and although written to a more religious reader than spiritual it still applies IMO.

I couldn't feel more differently than this which is why I feel no desire or need for God or to be created. Maybe its because for me the physical forces in nature could be seen as a type of creator. Life could be argued as beinrg the most grand part of our reality and reality itself creates life. Maybe life is an attribute of the universe that seems to be the pinnacle product of combining the physical forces plus time. Dust and gas coalesce into stars and planets, then atoms form amino acids and proteins eventually giving way to simple life. Four billion plus years later the product of this process is sitting here writing about the pondering of its own existence. That is deeply moving and spiritual for me. It doesn't make me feel insignificant at all. It makes me feel honored to be part of the greatest show in the universe. Life.

Freeing myself from the need to be the product of something greater than I was the most liberating experience of my 42 years. It is a sacred truth for me. I am not only in the universe I am of the universe. The same atoms in me have been in stars a very long time ago and matter somehow organizes itself to become argon gas or a mineral or a human cell. There is nothing about me that I feel is terribly unique but there is nothing about me I will ever see as ordinary.

There is a song I hold dearly that's closing line sings "how strange it is that we are anything at all". How strange and amazing indeed it is that we are anything at all. Why something rather than nothing and does consciousness create our world around us or is it a product of consciousness itself. These are wonderful and exciting questions we seek answers to as advanced life forms. Ethics will tell us that how we got here is not as important as what we do now that we are here while science continues to unravel the mystery but I see religion as being a hindrance by acting like a big period at the end of a sentence instead of a question mark. Because God did it. The end.

I love not having a creator. I feel special to be part of something much bigger than myself. The fact this process isn't supernatural doesn't make it any less special. It drives me to live to the fullest right here and now not for some afterlife. It encourages me to love and help others as much as I can because that is the direction life moves in. Forward, always moving forward. I do not need a supreme being to tell me its important to love and serve others. I can as a product of life itself evaluate and know this is best. That this concept is is good and important. Not having it be divine command doesn't lessen the intention of my desire and action to love and serve life.
When I see a sunset I am no less moved or inspired than a person of faith. I don't find it any less impressive this display is there and happening independent of me. When I take a walk in the forest with my best little friend and dog Goji I don't have less appreciation for the diversity of life and its beauty. I walk away feeling a renewed appreciation of my life, see the need to clearly help and be kind to others and make sure my loved ones know my love for them.

My life is beautiful, joyous, complete and without God.

^This is fantastic Oly. But just for the record: I consider your view extremely spiritual. Ok so I concede that I don't need a super natural either because the natural is infinite in size and complexity. The universe is alive and continues to shout itself alive in ever new way's. Just acknowledging that and seeing that for what it is opens me up to a profound feeling of awe which I am quite comfortable calling spiritual. Ultimately who cares if my ego joedirt survives death... That which joe is made of will continue on ever changing and morphing. It will never be born and never dye...yet it will continue to be a well spring of new life forms and new manifestations more profound than any simple human ego will ever be able to fathom.

Yeah life without a God is pretty profound indeed.

All these labels, definitions, and rationalizing EVERYTHING.

Feeling > Thinking.

A type of creator(or things like a "universe" is the same as a god essentially. Einstein knew this. We all know this...really, I am positive every single person who has posted in this thread deep down knows this. Semantics and idealogies always come after what we actually feel and then distort how those feelings are projected into the world until we believe them and build our cognitive prisons out of them. Then, we argue about it and sometimes kill people.

There is a creative force all around us. The universe it one huge animate creative force and it is god. I have no issue with the word. My ancestors had a different word for it, and they're own story they recorded of the big bang in mythological language..but hey, I get it. I know what they mean. When I say god I know I mean the same thing. It does not matter if I am using the mythology of my ancestors or the modern mythology of science, because deep down the feeling in the same..and I think people intuit this and it frightens many of them.

Lets get out of our heads and into a different place.

and yeah, same goes for the religious protection thing. That is great and all, but if we have to keep defining things in religious terms, or otherwise for them to be legitimate in the eyes of others, something is wrong...because it's cheap. Religion is not some great thing to be praised. It's like anything else. It has been the source(or scapegoat?) of mass genocides throughout history. Things like god, reverence, insight, consciousness, healing, sacredness, mysticism....on and on...these things can and do exist independent of religion.

Unless you want to have a discussion of the true etymology of the term religion. That could be interesting...

Yes I know, most people dont care and to have these medicine legitimized requires these silly stupid lables to be applied to them. Still, It makes me laugh.

People feel safe when they can put a lable on something, because then they know what shelf to put it on. Even if they have to fabricate the shelf out of more BS ideas.

Its the sheer idealism and what they portray such as "God" or "Father", an enlightened being of knowledge, love, and understanding. People always need something to look up to or believe in, so we create these symbols of the divine to help keep us on the right track, we don't even need to believe that they are real, but the ideas these deities give us are soo much more real than if they existed in the first place. I myself, before, not being able to understand these ideas using these powerful substances, just raveled in confusion. But one session it all clicked. I can relate to there not being anything, but there is also everything at the same time.

As we perceive and live and feel through this physical being, what's not to say that it is YOUR reality and anything else from anybody else is just speculation? I choose to make every one of them real as I believe to follow teachings and beliefs from each culture of religion, and through elders im very close too to teach these lessons. I believe in the stories they each teach, but I do not believe they actually ever set foot on this planet, only in our minds, which is the most real of it all. The reality that we create as individuals, is stronger than being told something, unless your really gullible lol.

This is my take on why there symbolic symbols and beings in our reality, exist. Ideas Ideas Ideas....

It should be spiritual or better yet just pure conscious freedom instead of religion.
Religion is a rigid format with rules to be adhered to, I believe the the good side of the dualistic heart of religion is spirituality (the other half is manipulation). The purpose of being spiritual is to be conscious, so surely that is what really matters- consciousness and the right to explore it.

Science, data without bias and consciousness = freedom. Is it a true freedom if it is only granted to people who think one way?

Yes. I agree on every level.

I couldn't agree with this any more along with jamie's ideas as well! A very analytical bunch arn't we?

This belongs here. Psychedelics are about to be liberated from bondage friends. Can't be long now ^_^
http://vimeo.com/66330277