I would love to get my hands on some iboga.

I personally cannot fathom living without daily & nightly meditation. The practice has become so ingrained... at a moments notice, by bringing my focus to a single point in concentration, I can shift my awareness inwards and so, beyond surface thoughts. It is an open avenue into the present moment, the here & now.

Psychedelics are quite different in effect, from the gradual saturation of centering, which sitting or moving meditation gifts. Entheogens are like thunder & lightning, volcanoes and geysers... in that the transition is so sudden, explosive and intense.

If the voyager is not prepared for such immediate self-annihilation, it can be quite terrifying. But I do believe you are comparing apples & oranges here. For my own path, the two can harmonize and co-exist in tremendously enlightening ways. That being said, if I never took a Sacred Medicine again, I would continue to meditate as often as I am conscious of having free will and choices of direction in my cognition.

When walking the road towards psychedelia, it is wise to develop a proper concentration and single-pointedness of focus and a calm state of mind. Meditation facilitates one's capacity to achieve a balanced mental framework, by which moving into transcendental levels of awareness is more readily accessed.

From my experiences, lo these many decades of continued practice, there are no doors which abruptly swing open. One's intent slowly and gradually dissolves what might be considered, closed doors to higher levels of perception. It does so at a measured pace, though. Entheogens blow the doors off the hinges in an small space of time. All in all, their usage should be kept a Sacred ritual of sorts. What are your thoughts?



I suspect we will never really be able to gauge how deep the meditative states can carry our awareness, beyond the realm of the known, into the Void. If advanced Yogis, Sufis, Gnostics and Buddhists arrive into a plane of consciousness like hyperspace, would it be the same as it is for us? I mean, is it as startling, dramatic and self-shattering? It must be... I think.

There is considerable debate about whether becoming immersed in "sober" states like Samadhi/Satori/Divine Rapture, share the visualization of fractal patterns, spiraling tunnels and intense colors, so associated with psychedelics (especially DMT). I have seen the light, heard the morphing drone of the AUM vibration and projected out my physical bodily frame, all under the sober trance of deep meditation. I have touched the Void and melted into internal silence. Still, taking an entheogen is quite another degree of intensity... KABOOM!!!



I totally agree. It is uncertain if advanced meditation triggers the release of DMT in the brain of seasoned practitioners. I am most curious to find out if this is a feasible possibility. Honestly, it has not exactly been so in my experience, at least not as psychedelically. There are differences. The epiphanies are gentler and more graduated. Yet, there were many moments when it was very, very close. But we all know that, "close only counts in horseshoes".

Within my own life, after 16 years of devoted entheogenic use, I refrained from the use of psychedelics for nearly 18 years, the whole time continuing my routine meditation. I was not living in a cave or in a monastery, I was in the world, building a career and embracing the life of a married man, with responsibilities in the world.

I speculate it would require 6-8 hours a day of formal meditation, to access hyperspace or whatever we choose to call existence on "the other side". I freely confess, that I was drawn back into this dance because it is so ENLIGHTENING. The experience has the power to teach us so much about the infinite nature of our own consciousness and our existential paradigm.



I think you are correct in your assessment of how extreme the practice would need to be. Sensory deprivation can and does cause hallucinations and a mind-shattering shift in consciousness, as does prolonged fasting. I know that many high souls have whiteout experiences and loose all awareness of their physical bodies, while training themselves in their Sadhana. Whether this can be considered "tripping" is a subject worthy of much consideration and healthy debate.



Right on, ۩. Each of these un-ordinary realms of experience, reveals unique insights, angles of perception and philosophical conclusions about the elusive nature of reality.

I like your idea of meditation, yoga, tai chi chuan (and other equally valid spiritual practices), as laying the foundation stones for embracing something as powerful and transformative as the Teachers of organic psychedelia: mescaline, psilocybin, LSD-25, NN-DMT or Salvia Divinorum (I haven't embraced Iboga or 5-MeO-DMT yet).

It may be fruitless to compare and contrast their specific qualities, for they are unique in and of themselves. They do seem to mix splendidly together, though.

I do not have the abikity to hyperspace on command but it certainly seems possible since all body functions can be changed if one is able to percieve and change it.
The point of most meditation techniques are controlling ones own body and mind through intention/focused awareness training.

In any case, i love to take dmt spiritually and do a short asana sequence and nadi shodana before taking off in the lotus position.

Well, i´ve heard some realy spectacular stories about realy intensive full-time meditation that sounded at least as spectacular as taking a big hit of LSD. But those where of guys who´ve been meditating intensively for years.

Like many here, I would say that meditation can provide some very potent psychedelic states, but they tend to be distinct from those provided by entheogens. I also agree that they dovetail rather well, with the highest states being achieved with a combination of internal yogic arts, meditation, and entheogens.

Also, while a type of meditation can be used to enter sleep paralysis from where it is possible to WILD or Astral Project, those states are also distinct... from each other and from other altered states.

Having said all that, though, I have had the experience of authentic DMT hyperspace both from yogic practice alone, and from lucid dreaming. Smoalk DMT in a dream and you get authentic DMT effects. They might not have the same duration of action, and drinking aya in a dream has yet to produce a multi hour journey, but the basic elements are all in place. This could be due to the mind's ability to recreate a past experience, it could be due to endogenous tryptamine production... who knows?

I don't want to start another of the many "Does the pineal gland make DMT" arguments. (recent reports posted on the Nexus suggest that it may very well after all) But DMT is not the only tryptamine the body makes. The fact that various emotional states and thoughts can cause the body to produce any number of interesting chemicals is already well established. From serotonin and dopamine to epinephrine and even more exotic stuff, the human body is a veritable drug factory. It is not inconceivable that such autonomic processes could be overridden and consciously activated. If yogis can manually control their heartbeats, bloodpressure, galvanic skin response etc., it is within reason to imagine that the creation of neurotransmitters could also be stimulated or controlled without taking drugs.

I have already posted about this, and I have no energy to debate it again... but I did experience DMT like hallucinations after purposefully stimulating my pineal gland with a special tongue pressure mudra. The experience followed very closely to what is written in the Vedas about it, complete with a very special "amrita" nectar pouring into the mouth which, after swallowing, catapulted the trip into epic Yopo snuff like regions. This experience has been repeatable, and seems to suggest that while you may not be able to meditate directly into hyperspace... you may be able to meditate and do certain yogic practices together which might induce hyperspace in individuals who are ripe for the experience.

If I had to guess, I would say that a certain level of pre-requisite yogic work is necessary. Cleansing the meridians or nadis of blockages, the ability to open and activate the various chakras (esp. the 3rd eye), and a certain proficiency with meditation.

All of these skills are on the difficult side to develop and master... but they are all worth it. Any true seeker of things cosmic will not regret investing the time it takes to master lucid dreaming, deep meditation, internal arts & yogic techniques, astral projection... and entheogenic shamanism. IMHO anyway.

Well said Brother. I have also triggered the release of Amitra, although my tongue didn't actually penetrate the nasal canal and massage the pineal gland. Frankly, I can't reach back in that far. Still I held my tongue curled up and pressed on the soft tissue behind the hard roof of the mouth (akin to acupressure).

This was not intentional, as I was in deep Zazen mediation and not consciously practicing any Kriyas. In other words, the tongue mudra was apparently spontaneous. Is Amitra really the same as orally-active NN-DMT? I honestly think not, as it was INSTANTLY active in my brain, seconds after swallowing it. Yeah, seconds. So how could anything be orally metabolized so instantaneously?

Or is it the case that upon the verge of such whiteout experiences, Amitra is naturally released. Meaning it is not a precursor and initiator, rather, a secondary byproduct of the heightened trance-state? I sure seemed to enhance the Samadhi exponentially. But I don't know... anyone got a hypothesis?

I'll add that in terms of what the mechanics of time measurement, this occurred at the climax of 3 separated sitting meditation sessions, on one day, spaced apart by a few hours each session. I truly WISH I still had that kind of free time to invest in my Sadhana. I am certain, as Hyperspace Fool mentions (and I might add, brilliantly so), that once tasted, this Amitra can be accessed again (completely sober).

I have also tasted this sweet liquid under the spell of LSD several times and once under vaporized DMT, although I cannot say what this "Amirta" actually is... chemically speaking. Wouldn't it be fascinating to resist the temptation to swallow this liquid and have it analyzed by a chemist? It's certainly not just mucus or spit!

I wonder...

I have a friend who says he went to Goa a few years ago, and he asked a holy man that he found on a beach to teach him/enlighten him. The holy man said "drink this." He took a sip and was instantly teleported to what he described as hyperspace/heaven/ego death. He said the liquid tasted sweet. I couldn't imagine what sweet-tasting thing could cause this experience, especially (as he recalls it) nearly instantaneously. Perhaps one can save up this Amitra and administer it to others like a powerful psychedelic?

I don't know if it is even possible to massage the pineal gland directly, but my experience parallels yours... in that the massage is through the soft palette.

Who knows what Amrita is? I like your idea of spitting it out for later analysis... though there may be problems with preserving the actives. I have a feeling that some of the compounds involved might be rather unstable outside of the body.

As for the time frames involved, it seems that the juice comes from above the hard & soft palettes, and then saturates the roof of the mouth. It is as if the roof of the mouth becomes somewhat spongey and then the pressure of the tongue allows it to squish into the mouth. If this subjective experience is actual, then it could be that a lot of the actives involved could be absorbed directly into the capillaries under the brain. This would produce effects more quickly than even IV ROAs... and we know how fast that can be.

In this conception, there would be further absorption through the oral tissues (sublingual) and the drip or swallowing would allow for further absorption in the tissues of the throat.

Anyway, it gladdens me thoroughly to read of another psychonaut's experiences of Amrita.

Blessings brother RS,

Isn't LSD thumbnailing said to be kick in almost instantenously? Unfortunately, you didn't told us the duration of that experience. It could be a drink containing 10% pure LSD or something like that mixed with juice?

Btw "I" have succeeded in getting to infinite nondual nirvana hyperspace whatever you call it without drugs.

The trick is to focus intently on the dependent origination/automatic/nobody here nature of reality. Especially powerful when sleepy.

Read Stepping Out of Self Deception by Rodney Smith...

Something similar to hyperspace (death actually) happened to us, not during planned meditation but after fasting for 29 days due to "general madness". It wasn't planned. It came with the usual terror. We was thereafter teleported (due to lack of better word) back into a youniverse were it did not happen/has not yet happened/is not due to happen. How else could we be here? Maybe we can talk about it later.....

Nothing in pharmacology is instantaneous. Even the fabled LSD thumbprint is described as taking a full hour to get you to where you're going. Nausa/vomiting may happen very quickly afterwards, but this story seems apocryphal to me. What would a guru on a beach in India being doing with milligrams of LSD to give away for free?

As for the whole Amrita thing, I'd really like to see what this stuff looks like under GC-MS.

Blessings
~ND

I've learned to accept my experience as they come, I enter hyperspace under a meditative state. It is from a Zen exercise on meditation. My experiences with this are blissful, peaceful, and have a meaning every time. Its intense but learning how the dmt acts the second you inhale, how you feel is crucial to self awareness, every time I hit this wonderful molecule, I tell myself "You know what you did, now go with it. There's no turning back so just accept it, but REMEMBER".

As I go and submit to the experience I keep my mind open and aware of whats going on, "This is meant for me, myself, and my being." What I see, hear, touch (physical), smell, the latter two rarely and I mean rarely happen. The transition is quick but I can predict it. But the feeling (telepathically) and seeing of beings is most prominent. Even with a blackout dose 0f 50mg+. I can still feel myself falling "gracefully" down the rabbit hole. Some so intense that im teetering on uncomfortability. But this was meant to happen, at this moment now in the present of my experiences. Hyperspace terrifies me because I still don't understand it. But I guess I make myself part of hyperspace? Idk how to describe it but you cannot be afraid of yourself when you understand yourself? Idk how to relate this, but I trust myself and all others in the universe that everything is the way it is for what and why it is. Everything is OK... Any specific questions ill do my best to answer lol But its something I just cant put into words...

Namaste Nexians!
---dls---

You're right, I should have been written almost instantenous.


Do you have an idea, what it could be? It most likely is something that dissolves extremly rapidly when touching the tongue and also quickly passes the blood-brain barrier.

It looks like I was confusing the feeling of energy with the actual onset of the trip, reading this report some weeks ago (thanks for clarifying that):
insanebraintrain.blogspot.de/2011/07/massive-dosing-lsd-thumbprint.html


That's what I was thinking of when reading the discussion about Amrita.



Until we have actual data on this, it would be helpful to know things like the duration of the experience as well as a more detailed report.

This is almost certainly a placebo effect. It doesn't matter how much what the molecule is, nothing is going to alter your consciousness just by being near you. My expectation is that the 'instantaneous' feelings are actually the products of your own adrenaline and the stress of doing such a large undertaking. The effects of the LSD on the brain come later.

The point about the duration of effects is a good one.

Blessings
~ND

Yes, dzogchen meditation, and vipassana will greatly help you. samatha/samadhi will help if you have trouble getting into those two. I recommend tenzin wangyal rinpoche talks and books, and sayadaw u pandita as a teacher as well. His book "in this very life" (freely available if you google) is a great vipassana instruction book. Shinzen Young, Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Chah, Daniel Ingram, Daniel Brown, Keith Dowman, Kenneth Folk, are all good teachers as well.

Notice, in the moment, as you identify with the subject of those thoughts. The more you come to notice it, the less you will be overwhelmed by it, and eventually you can uproot the ignorance causing the habitual tendency to identify with mental fabrications in the first place. Dzogchen Vipassana will help you to watch mental processes as they occur, without believing yourself to "be" them. We are aware of these things occurring, we are not these things occuring. When we are not mindful, we slip up and identify with the object of awareness, taking us on a journey.

For example "where I went totally insane" -- Obviously, "sane" and "insane" are relative concepts, mental fabrications, and as we can see from this post, you didn't really go insane. You just experienced something you were not used to / prepared to handle at the moment. But really, if you had a stable practice developed, you would be able to remain calm and watch what is happening with persistent awareness, instead of slipping up and identifying with the noise.

These practices will help you remember that you are the awareness of the thought itself, and not the thought, nor the thinker.

"forgot who I was" "was never pleasant" -- this sounds to me as if you just were unfamiliar of the territory, and without having a frame from which to process the experience, you identified with the "this is crazy, i am crazy" thoughts running through your field of awareness.

Agreed with ND. The closest you're going to get to instantaneous, is injecting the drug.

I have founded some information which might help, the wiki article contains some general information:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita


I also found the following paper titled "Editorial: From Amrita to Substance D: Psychopharmacology, Political Economy, and Technologies of the Self Transcultural Psychiatry March 2009 46: 5-15" (unfortunately I haven't subscribed there and are thus unable to read the PDF, if someone here has, it would be nice to hear some comments about the paper):
tps.sagepub.com/content/46/1/5.full.pdf+html

Sorry I didn't reply to this for over a year! Haha... just now re-read it.

Actually, your insight is quite good regarding the relative label of "insane" and what it really "means"... yes, exactly, I was simply unused to the territory. This very experience that to me was overly intense, was what Yongyey Mingyur Rinpoche described as liberating him, in his book, The Joy of Living.

One thing I have realized, is that the notion that we are the awareness which is seeing everything, is itself just a higher level of illusion. When you penetrate this advaita view, the whole awareness itself is obliterated as separate subject. There is nobody left that is aware of anything. It is only as Buddha said in the Bahiya sutta, "In the seen, only the seen. In the heard, only the heard. In the cognized, only the cognized." All of these streams of consciousness are disjoint without anything to unite them into a "subject" aware of them all. They always have been, but it wasn't recognized.

What helped me get to this realization (which still has a long way to go to mature), was reading the blog AwakeningToReality (.blogspot.com), especially Thusness Six Stages of Awakening (google it).