I myself have had one trip on LSD in which I thought I had gone too far, fried my brain , and would be permanently stuck in that space for the rest of my life. This seems to be a fairly common thing that all psychedelic users encounter at some point in there journey with these substances. I've read quite a few number of reports here where people have thought this as well.

I know on my LSD trip where I was convinced of this it was when I was a teenager. I had heard many times from people that with LSD there is a risk of "perma-tripping" , where you could literally fry your brain and not come down ever. This was an urban legend that went around in my area. I'm unsure how it was started or if it's common around the world but I think it may have had something to do with my trip that night.

What gets me and makes me question this is why do these experiences provoke this in so many people? Even with DMT , a substance we know is not toxic, is naturally occurring, and is very short acting when vaporized, experienced users even have these sorts of ideas during there experiences. If we all know that we will come down, that DMT is harmless to the physical brain , etc then why do we get these ideas?

I've yet to have a DMT experience where j thought like that . in fact my LSD trip was the only time it's ever happened to me. And it was on one blotter which was apparently dosed pretty high. And as I said already I truly think the urban legend I heard had something to do with it. Now that I'm older and more educated it seems unlikely that I'd have another experience in which I convinced myself I'm not coming back down. But the fact that so many people have it happen who knows.

So in essence my question is this... Where do you think this comes from? If you've had an experience like this was it before you had access to information like here at the nexus, which shows you it will wear off, or did you have stories told to you in your community of people being stuck on trips etc? And finally if you had a trip like this without being told these types of urban legends and had educated yourself enough on these substances to know they wear off once they run there course, where or what do you think caused you to toss that information aside and allow yourself to be convinced that you broke your brain and were stuck there?

This topic applies to all hallucinogens not just DMT.

I think perhaps we react this way because the experience is so strange and far away from our normal state of mind, we just don't know what to think of it. The train of thought could be something like this:

Is this normal? Is it supposed to feel this way? I'm not sure I'm actually still ok, because I can't define or relate the way I feel right now to how I usually feel... What if something is wrong?

And then any number of things that could be wrong could pop up in your head - fried your brain, poisoned your body, broke the universe etc. The not coming down sensation I think is a normal reaction to the fact that our entire universe i.e. our perception is so utterly altered in so little time (whether dmt or lsd, it's still less than an hour for this change), it can easily feel like you've jumped of a metaphoric cliff, which obviously you can't just climb back up to...

On my very first LSD trip I had the sensation I might never be coming down again, but to me this wasn't scary. I never wanted it to end. I saw the tripping state as an enhancement of my mind, not of a brain-frying, but the feeling was still there.

I've heard the same urban myths as well. I think it's such a common theme with DMT because the reality shift is so sudden, so jarring and so completely unlike that from normal reality that the thought that everything is just gonna get sucked back into the genie's lamp seems laughable. I've never seriously entertained the thought during an experience myself, however I have mired at the ease at which reality seems to reassemble itself from the multidimensional vistas of hyperspace.

I understand your point and where your coming from but it still seems odd. We take these substances in order to have an experience that is out of this world ,not normal, far out, etc and then once we get there we think some things wrong ? I know on my LSD trip I felt like I broke my brain and that it just functioned this way now.

But as I said I has heard stories so k thought it possible that you could get stuck on a LSD trip. Now that j know otherwise,especially with DMT,I don't see how I could be convinced of it. Yet I fear I'll have an experience that turns dark and I feel trapped there. Its amazing how long this bad LSD trip has stuck with me. It was almost twenty years ago yet I still think about it any time I work with hallucinogens.

I was thinking about it the other day and realized that it was really the only really bad trip I've ever had. I've had other trips I reffred to as bad for years but looking back bow they were just difficult. Its as if this one experience has cored and made the whole phenomenon of tripping different to me ever since. I approach these substances with caution and respect ever since. And as far as just dark trips go I worked with LSD so much I got used to dark trips and lost my fear of them , yet I still fear the state that LSD had me in that one time...

Its truly powerful these experiences we can have. I'm really hoping we get into a nice discussion on this as I'd love to hear other explorers viewpoints and experiences.

@Global....

So you've never had a experience on any substance that had you convinced you were gone forever stuck in that state for the rest of your life ? That's awesome.

I overdid it one time with strong caapi vine tea
and an unmeasured large dose of spice in a VG.

It still stands as the single most terrifying moment
of my life . The feeling was exactly that I had crossed a line
and now had to deal with this new way of being . Words break down
but it was this fast paced sharp black and white geometric scary
landscape . My sense of self was splintered into a million fragments .
it really felt like I would be stuck this way forever . I've always thought
this stuff is related to the fight or flight mechanism in some way.

http://en.m.wikipedia.or...Fight-or-flight_response


Also I've noticed that dmt can be an amplifier in one sense. Panic can be amplified
through the roof into a cascade of fear that can fold in on itself .
Part of what triggered my experience was having difficulty breathing at the onset
wich set things in motion from there .

There's one more curious thing that I find fascinating and not uncommon.
The sense of forgetting what you did to get in the state in the first place .
This forgetting is very interesting . It's happened to me quite a few times
and I know others that have experienced this as well.

@Felnik....

When referring to the forgetting...are you speaking of DMT experiences only or all entheogens? Also does this only happen when vaping spice or during oral work as well? I have yet to have a DMT experience where I forgot that I smoked it. But I haven't broke through yet either.

In my theory it could be because its familiar sense like we been there before, and somehow that's what triggers this. Ive had a trip where I was stuck in a loop, my life was just replaying itself over and over again. I thought I permanently fast forwarded myself and couldn't make any rational choices cause I was moving too fast. Then just forgot about who I was and thought I really did it and thought I would be stuck there forever. Idk, but theres a familiar, terrifying feeling to these exp. Like "You wanted to know, here you go!" Almost too much to take, and frightens you. All is just spec. from my point of view. But now im more experienced, I can just "let go" and go with the experience.

Best wishes guys!

---dls---

In general the forgetting for me has come when caapi is involved .
Usually caapi tea combined with vaped spice. I know a person
that has had this forgetting with vaped spice as well . I think it's
not an uncommon thing with some heavy trips that people can experience.
I would say it's one of the many flavor possibilities of the entheogenic
experience . The good news I've discovered is that you always come back
no matter how deep you go . I was always plagued by fear of staying
In hyperspace but over time I've realized things always return to normal .
Now this is based on careful shamanic use of it not abuse or bad setting etc.
In any case it's been liberating for myself to no longer be afraid of being stuck
in this hyperspace state and has allowed me to go deeper and deeper with
a newfound level of trust . On a personal level it can be a house of mirrors
where irrational perceptions and beliefs can get blown out of proportion .
My technique has been to try no to believe anything if possible and to take
hyperspace as it comes. Make all theories provisional and subject to change at
all times , witnessing the experience holding on to one belief that no matter what
it will not hurt you .

My hunch is that it has something to do with the way psychedelics can distort your perception of time. The flow of time seems to slow down, giving a sense of 'endlessness,' (not the Nexian ), as though where one is at the moment will last a subjective eternity.

I don't think it has to do with urban legends or thing's we've internalized. I imagine if you gave someone who had never ever heard of psychedelics a high dose of mushrooms, they might have the same kinds of fears we do.

Blessings
~ND

What enoon and felnik said resonate strongly with me. I always ask those questions as it's happening, did I do something wrong, am I ok, should I be feeling like this, will I return, etc

This is a great topic.

This is a very big component of my spice trips as of late, and it really is very terrifying because of the immensely intense nature of the comeup. Its just such a shock to the system, it's only happened twice to me and each time I just think welp this is it I crossed the line and will never be returning.

It's very difficult to regulate the feeling and allow the experience to progress when it's so heavy so quick. I'd love to be able to be okay with being stuck in that "temporary eternity" but Im no where near mastering that just yet. Maybe soon

From my own experiences I'd definitely second Nathaniel's comment about time dilation... That's a part of it because the distortion can be so pronounced that the "forever " thing kicks in.

But I think there's a fundamental psychological component, where you end up in a state where you have a radical realization about reality. It's familiar, you realize that this realization is the real deal, that it is spot-on, and just knowing this new thing curses you to a life of being basically nonhuman in a sense... It shatters your reality. But then you come down and the forgetting happens. But for a time dilated period you end up stuck with this bare-naked glimpse of reality that can't be reconciled with your familiar comfortable life. During that period it can seem like a kind of a curse, but thankfully we can only remember the parts that we are ready for.

Great topic. I agree with most of what the above said - I had this happen also. I was having a good time, and I remember laying in my bed and this thought came in - "what if in real life I was actually running around like a lunatic, naked, etc. and I thought I was laying peacefully in my bed? How would I ever know?" and this 'lack of proof' caused me immense internal distress, like those dreams I used to have where I would be in public and realize I had no clothes on or something of that sort, and wonder how it happened and become instantly embarrassed. Interestingly enough, once this started happening, other doors to rooms in the building I was in would *slam* shut, over and over and over, and it continued to break my thought up that was figuratively seizing my being and holding it hostage. I remember thinking how odd it was doors were slamming shut so loud at such a repetitive frequency, but it could have just been the coincidence I needed to break free into dream land.

I think because I had no logical way of independently verifying that I wasn't running around like a maniac, the potential was there, and that was enough to send me on a feverish mind mission of doubt. Explaining this to one of my friends, I remember he introduced me to the term like he knew it well, and told me I was 'spinning'. I took it akin to the way tires would spin on a car but it would move nowhere. Now that I recall the story, I also think I may have been influenced - by the very individuals that provided the first experience I had - the story being that one of them had walked out to his car naked one time to smoke an L, and apparently didn't remember it because he had 'blasted off'. To this day the story seems fishy, but since they were the more experienced two (and also seemed to be engaged in some ethereal battle I only slightly became aware of near the end of my interaction with them) and I was the newcomer I was very open to ideas on the experience. The time dilation only increased the fear, which came as a form of thought.

I think it's the fear that my mind is playing tricks on me, and having me interpret a reality that is not the 'common' reality shared by most. Silly, silly brain..

I think perhaps we recognize this phenomena because the experience is so strange and far away from our normal state of mind.
The delusion of permanence is nothing new to human psychology.
Its why we freak out and get stressed when we're sick.
Its why we freak out and get stressed when our computer is broken.
Its why we freak out and get stressed when our lover leaves us.
et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.
But we're used to being transiently fooled by those mundane daily delusions of permanence, we rarely even look at the over-strong stress response closely enough to see that much of the problem is us thinking this is how reality IS (and by implication, how it will stay)

But when our delicate little monkey minds are catapulted into hyperspace and we loose our bodies and we morph into pastel colored transdimentional psychedelic play-doh building blocks of the universe and the subtle thought of this being permanent occurs its so damn far out and jarring that we actually notice it. "Holy motherfuck, what if this IS permanent!"
Psychedelics just make things more poignant, its one of their more distinctive properties.

When you reflect on the weird ass shit that happens to the mind on psychedelics or deep meditation, try looking for ways that the same pattern is reflected in your sober ordinary life. You might derive useful insights into your mind.