Hi,

Just a quick question that i hope to receive no flak for - please, nobody start argueing over the actual moral standpoint of using this etc...
Id like to keep this just about the actual technical aspects.

Down to the question

Swim wants to make some tranqualizer darts - they need to be 100% safe and the tranqualizer needs to be sourced naturally - as in which plant contains a safe localized tranquilizer - not something to knock ppl out with just something that would say make ur leg tranquil and still and numb for a short period of time if say - you were shot in the leg with a dart tipped in this stuff.

Swim is currently working on some pure salvianorin tipped darts - idea request thread to come as soon as he has some pure salvianorin

okay - just to explain - this is not for something nasty, swim doesnt like guns but does like feeling secure.

If somebody broke into swims house while he was asleep - and swim was awoken by noise - this is when the darts would be put to use.
if a gun is used, part of the robber would be blown off - perhaps the robber might even die, you would have bad karma and a courtcase(in my country the criminals have lots of rights) but if a salvia dart was used (and it was very quick acting) the theif would be unconcious quickly (well tripping hard enough to count as unconcious) and could be carried outside, kicked in the ribs and left dazed and confused on awakening.
nobody really hurt.

for the tranquilizer darts simmilar uses apply. a crook that cant walk is not much of a crook.

oh yeah and the benefit over using a pepper spray are obvious - have u ever sprayed doberman gas in a closed room - you would suffer just as much as the criminal.

Ehm... do you often get disturbances?

Are you talking just complete tranquilizers like incapacitants or calmatives?

Try googling words like that.

Also I hope your extraction methods will be suitable for a substance meant for skin penetration.
You could end up in much more trouble if this goes the wrong way.

And yes... sorry for the moral lecture

about disturbances - well yes and no
its a possibility
a few houses in my area have had breakins recently - i would never buy a gun but i dont wana wake up with intruders and have nothing i can do about it.
currently i got a huge can of some gas that really hurts you and it would work but i would be incapacitated too.
perhaps tranquilizer is not the right word - i want a numbing shot a local anesthetic.

like - zzzzip - shot in the leg - seconds later the victim(of the shot)'s leg goes numb - cant walk on a numb leg ...
preferebly nothing that changes ones state of mind, gonna have salvia darts for that.

What if you shoot him in the leg and he shoots you back with something a little more permanent with his gun clutching and able arm? Personally I don't worry about such things, but if I did I'd use a total tranquilizer and then drag him 1 mile away and remove his trousers. This is obviously much better if he doesn't see you or doesn't even realise he's been hit.

im not really concerned myself - but its a good thing to have around wouldnt u say ?
so no ideas on what plants may contain the kinds of things im looking for ?
any ideas on salvia darts -
if one were to take say a drum barrel cactus thorn(because of its sideways grain) and coat it in melted salvianorin -
would this dart be effective if shot at someone - how deep would it need to penetrate and how fast would it work
also for this method of administration, how much per dart ? would something like dmso help make it more effective ?
cmon surely someone has experience with darting, eh, targets

Why use salvinorin? what is the rationale behind the choice of this substance? Is it known to act as a tranquillizer? I suspect that the choice of the said molecule is based solely on its ability to be active in very small amounts (hence a good dose can be delivered by one dart) theoretically. Practically however, I doubt a dart coated with salvinorin would tranquillize anyone.

What you really want is to make some curare. It is a poison used to coat the blowdarts of hunters of some Amazonian tribes. It consisting of extracts/parts of few plants like Strychnos guianensis.

Remember though, it is very powerful poison even though it is not lethal by itself. It works by paralysing the muscles of the body. People and animals usually die from asphyxia when poisoned by curare because the respiratory muscles fail for a good amount of time.

So, should you use curare on someone make sure to provide artificial breathing (y'know, kiss of life) to him until the drug wears off and he can support his own breathing again. Just picture this; mouth kissing the guy who broke into your property - hilarious.

Interesting - Make sure you test out these Salvinorin Darts on yourself - thats the only way to get first hand info on the effectivity of your dart - report back if you really try

I would say buy a large can of "bear spray" pepper oil (I get it from UDAP.com). With a bear-sized can you can completely incapacitate 4 or 5 attackers (this stuff is NASTY). Of course one bad thing is that it will stink up your home if you use it.

Another interesting item is a CO2 fire extinguisher. The great thing about that is that there is no clean up and no smell--the CO2 sublimes in about 5 minutes. Spray it in someone's face and they find they can't breathe, and will also feel like their face is freezing. They won't know what it is (and that it's harmless), but they'll want to get away from you as fast as they can. I happen to have a lot of experience with this because I own two large male dogs who can sometimes get in nasty and dangerous fights. I keep the CO2 extinguisher around for those occasions and it works very well: I cover their faces in dry-ice snow and within a couple of seconds they have to stop because they can't breathe.

If someone is seriously attacking you a dart in the leg won't stop them, and may enrage them in a way you don't want.

The best solution of all: regular steel doors with a steel frame and hinge protectors. They're not particularly expensive, and they can't be kicked in OR smashed in with the "typical" police-type battering ram. You get no surprises from ANYONE

what about some 5-meo-dmt...

This sounds like a bad idea to me.

IF you were actually in a situation where you used it you could be charged as these chems ARE NOT for consumption and become illegal when they are used. You could be charged with drugging some criminal against his will, sad as that sounds.

As far as plants, I don't know of any where there is not a serious chance of a lethal OD but will knock him out.

Also, you have to remember that it takes 5-10 minutes for most IM injections to start working. Most of that crap on TV where the guy gets hit with a dart and falls over within seconds is really not possible, even with very strong tranqs (like fentanyl darts, ketamine tranqs, benzo tranqs, Major Tranqs (like thorazine, stellazine, etc) it will take a few minutes, even with a seriouly strong dose before the intruder is incapacitated.

Your best bet is:

1) get pepper spray or make your own out of ammonia and hot peppers (it does work well trust me).
2) purchase a pump shotgun. Just pumping the gun is enough to send most intruders running like hell. It makes a very distinct sound.
3) get a tazer or two

If you intend to threaten an invader with a shotgun, I suggest you DO NOT depend wholly on the sound or sight of it to scare away the invader. Guns CAN be a very effective deterrent...and they can also sometimes be a very effective AMPLIFIER of confrontation. If you're going to point a gun a someone because you feel your life is on the line, it had better be loaded

btw, I once pointed a .45 at someone who broke into my house (this was over 20 years ago). They ended up jumping out the (ground level) window to get away from me...

Are you familiar in how to use a blow-gun to shoot these darts?

Chances are, just like with untrained people owning guns, these darts might be more of a danger to you than any intruder.

I've watched a few videos of people taking police gun training classes, who have been trained to use a gun during a tense situation & even though these people had completed a 2 day, 16 hour training course & were the top % of their classes, only 1 out of 10 was actually able to control the gun in an unexpected, high pressure situation where someone busted into the room they were in, shot their teacher & started shooting students (this was not a real murder, but the student thought it was)!!
4 out of 10 people fumbled to even get the gun out of the holster quickly enough, they were "shot & killed" because they were to adrenalized to do anything accurately except run!!
There was only 1 person (who had also been trained by his father from a very young age to handle guns) who was able to actually get the gun out, cock it, aim it correctly & shoot it, while under that kind of pressure & do it fast enough to fire off a few rounds.
Unfortunately, in the time it took him to do all that (less than 10 seconds, if I remember correctly), 4 other people were fatally shot & he himself was shot 5 times!!
Once in the foot, from his own gun, while he was trying to get it out of the holster!! (whoops)
Out of the shots he was able to get off, not 1 hit the target, he did however hit 2 of the other students...the ones he was trying to protect.
Afterward, he was interviewed & said he had thought every shot he had fired, had hit the assailant. Either in the head, or chest, because that is what he was seeing in his gun-sights the whole time.
He had no idea that he had actually shot 2 of the other students as they were running out the door, behind the assailant!!
Luckily, these were all paint-ball type bullets!!

It was quite interesting indeed!!
I think I saw this on PBS, I'll see if I can track down the video on the web & post a link.

Anyway, blow darts are much, much more difficult to load up & shoot accurately, especially in a high pressure situation, so I don't know how realistic this plan might be. That tip needs to get buried in the persons flesh pretty deep & for a long enough time for the chem to get into the blood stream. In movies that takes seconds, in real life, natives will chase a boar that has been "poisoned" by darts for quite a while, before it finally slows down & eventually falls from the drug.
A lot can happen in that amount time, when your shooting these darts at some freak who's willing to break into a strangers house inthe middle of the night in the first place.
At least if your serious about wanting to use these for home protection.

A few things to think about:
What if you have to shoot more than one dart?
Or the intruder is wearing thick pants?
What if the guy is a Salvia Hard-Head & needs to work through the reverse tolerance thing?
And lastly, where did you get the darts & the chems (other than salvia), when the police start asking questions?


Just sayin'

WS

Because of the novelty of this home defense method, this sounds like all sorts of wierd lawsuits waiting to happen. And I don't know where you live, but if someone breaks into my house I'll be in the clear if I plug em with a double barrel.

just get a sword. Pulling out a sword will send perpatrators running.

What he said. Get some good steel. Professionally made stuff, not flea market stuff that you took a sharpening stone to. If I was a robber I'd be horrified to see the flash of steel as it glided through the air.

Get a big dog.

A baseball bat, or ball peen hammer.

Learn hand to hand combat.

All of the above posts seem like a better idea than a blow gun with some home made tranqs on it.

A baseball bat is pretty much fool proof. If you can swing it....

While the sound of a pump action shot gun would scare the piss out of most intruders, having it unloaded would be kinda stupid, HOWEVER, even if it was unloaded it doubles as a baseball bat (see comment above)

haha...this thread is turning out lovely...while we are at it..heres my awesome idea

get some 5-meo-dmt(seems to come on faster than even dmt) and figure out a way to vaporize it...and then figure out a way to 'spray' it at the intruder...also make it have a very loud sound..like a gun going off..so he gets hit by this shit..he inhales it..and a loud sound goes off...the dude will think hes been killed...and if the dose is good...he will just fall over..and then you can drag him out..or give him more when he starts to wake up...

Then you could put on a white robe & a long Grey beard & stand over him, judging him when he wakes up!!

"Listen home intruder, you are at the gates of heaven, but because you've been a bad boy, you are going back to earth to live a better life!!"

Or I guess you could just relax & hope for the best...

WS