This summer I was introduced to a fickle friend; a plant which i thought was an ally but is really a devil in a flowing white robe which makes pain and misery run down your brain like the river ganges when you two are apart. I am talking, of course, of mitragyna speciosa; Kratom.

My dance with kratom began in late june. A friend of mine had just gotten a few ounces of kratom and gave me ten grams. That day we both munched on the kratom and it gave me the all-too-familiar everything is fine and awesome vibe which all opiods give you upon entering the poppy space. I loved the feeling and life was great. There was a party in my head and i didn't wanna stop it.

Later that night I placed an order for another ounce of kratom. I spent the next three days waiting for my package to arrive with the same vigor as a child awaiting santa claus on christmas. Upon receiving my package i danced with joy and immediately set about on a 5g a day kratom habit.

As the weeks wore on so too did my kratom usage. I love it moar than i should and it is only now that I am realizing just how deep of a pandora's box i have opened. A few days ago i tried to give up kratom in the hopes that i could break free of its grasp before heading back to college for the fall semester. Well, wouldnt you know it that the next day right after taking my last dose that the dreaded withdrawals come upon me. To say that the suck would be an understatement; the best way to explain it would be to imagine that there is a thin strip of electrical tape stopping a sharknado from wreaking havoc on the city of new orleans. Suddenly the tape vanishes and you are thrown right into the sharknado feeling sick as a dog and unable to do anything. To say it is comparable to a bad trip would be a joke; this sucks.

Blasting myself for doing something so stupid, I managed to obtain 10mg of oxycodone in an attempt to see if tapering down the dose could help before i head back into the sharknado. I am planning on taking 1mg at a time for a few days in order to see if the intensity of the withdrawals could be mitigated. I have read reports of addicts using a small dose of an opiod before going cold turkey in order to mitigate withdrawal symptoms. Is there any merit to this idea or am I just postponing the inevitable?

Also, with regards to withdrawal, are there any substances and activities which could be used to help mitigate the pain of withdrawal? A friend of mine suggested warm showers and swimming, which i plan to do alot of once i get dopesick again. I also have some kava root bark to help (I have heard that benzos/barbituates and related drugs can help with withdrawal and i would imagine that kava could help due to its effects on GABA) and am wondering if anyone else used this when going thru withdrawals. Also, are there any drugs I should avoid (other than opiods) during withdrawal? I am planning to do some exercise when in withdrawal to kick start my endogenous endorphan system into resuming its normal functioning and am wondering if exercise can help with or is a good idea for opiod withdrawal.

On a side note, how many days do withdrawal symptoms last for?

I would appreciate all and any advice you can give me. I have a great and harrowing battle ahead of me; a demon with 7 foot spines is headed my way and I have no choice but to endure the sharknado if i ever wish to free myself from this crutch of crutches.

Thank you for your time and words of advice,
-Spicemaster

The negative effects are part of the healing process. Look at them as a good thing, do not try and avoid them or run away from them. Meditation. Look up vipassana, and mindfulness meditation. Use the feelings and sensations of the body and the thoughts and emotions of the mind, watch them come and watch them go. The more you do, the less you will suffer from them. It will suck for a while, but it will pass. Detox should last no longer than 72 hours.

If you were going to taper off, then you should be aware you are delaying the inevitable, but if you choose, you might try using kratom to taper off instead of moving to something more addictive. Using oxycodone to get off kratom seems a little backwards to me, like using meth to get off caffeine. Look up opiate withdrawal symptoms and opiate withdrawal stories online. Read real people's stories and testimonials. Each day, search "Day one no opiates" or "Day two without opiates" etc.

It will keep you busy and you will find that there are people out there worse off than yourself, who got through it, and those who are now better off than yourself, which has helped me when going through this stuff in the past. Make sure to eat regularly, drink fluids, rest, exercise when you feel restless, etc. Aspirin / Tylenol for headaches. Depending on you, marijuana may help you get through the worst of it, although if you don't smoke weed already, I would not advise trading one habit for another.

Treat yourself like you are getting over a sickness, it will pass. You just need time to recover. The body/mind has been put through an ordeal, it's chemistry has changed to accommodate the new makeup and now you have removed the makeup and the mind has to re-set itself.

Speaking as a long time user of opioids.........

I was in an automobile accident years ago that left me with several herniated disc's in my cervical spine. The result of this injury was chronic pain in my neck, shoulders and into my right arm, and side.

It escalated to unbearable levels which prompted me to reach out to some specialists that did CAT scans, MRI scans, XRays, nerve studies, etc. The conclusion was, if the pain was too unbearable to allow for a "normally" functioning life, that I should get surgery which implanted cadaver bone and titanium plates/screws to widen the space in between the herniated disc's in an attempt to keep the nerves from being impinged upon.

After the surgery, I unfortunately was still experiencing considerable daily pain that ranged from debilitating to somewhat bearable.

After being referred to a pain specialist, they prescribed a list of pharmaceuticals. Which included, 80mg Oxycontin, 30mg Roxicodone, 2mg alprazolam (Xanax), and Soma.....

This continued for a decade and got to the point that I was given so much, and so strong, that I no longer could even remember if I took the medications. This resulted in me taking more, much sooner than prescribed. I seriously believe that I was very close to death, many times.....

No one had the inclination to help me get out of this rut, and luckily, I came to the conclusion that without stopping, I would die soon if I didn't figure out a way to stop.

I finally went to an addiction specialist that ended up prescribing Subutex initially. Subutex is a pharmaceutical that is categorized as a pain reliever, without the euphoria and opioid buzz.

I lapsed a few times initially, and was changed to Suboxone. This is a combination of Subutex and Narcon, or something like Narcon. The 2nd ingredient basically acted as a blocking agent for the opioids. Therefore, if you were to take opioids when on the Suboxone, the effects of the narcotics would be blocked, and thus ineffective. It also kept the buzz from being felt.

I stayed on the Suboxone for up to 6 months, reducing the doses slowly near the end to wean me off of the drug.

I was able to kick a decade long serious addiction without virtually any withdrawal symptoms, while still allowing the Suboxone to keep the pain under control enough to keep me from seeking stronger medications.

The most ironic thing about Subutex and Suboxone is that doctors aren't even allowed to prescribe it unless they have been through some form of special training to do so.

Its pretty disgusting that doctors can write prescriptions for highly addictive pain medications without special training but the same doctors or any others, can't prescribe these medicines that will effectively allow the patient to get off the heavy opioid medicines without special training......What a farce!!!

I realize there are many that would like to use natural plant based products to get them off these evil and potentially fatal medicines, however, I was being controlled by the addiction so strongly that I don't believe that i would have been able to kick the habit without the Subutex and Suboxone.

If you look into this, I would highly suggest skipping Subutex, and go straight to Suboxone. At least, if you slip, and take some opioids, it won't deliver due to the nature of Suboxone and its components.

If you have any specific questions or advice I can help you with to kick any of these nasty habits, feel free to PM me......

The opioids and the addiction they cause, are sneaky compounds. They have a strong tendency to seemingly make the pain worse than it would be without the pain killers, which drove me to increase the doseages........

The doctors had told me that they had me on such a strong doseage, that if I were to be in a serious accident that required painful procedurs, ie. amputation, etc. that they wouldn't be able to pump any pain killers into me that would help in that situation.

I now, after being off of all these drugs for approximately 4 years, have reclaimed my mind, health, and relationships that the hard drugs had pretty much destroyed.......

I now smoke pot for the pain relief. Not lots of pot, but enough to allow me to function farely normally while stil keeping my mind intact.......

I hope this helps anyone out there that can't get rid of the big, hairy monkey on their back!!!

Much Love&Light

Observer

Observer, that sounds pretty rough. Good for you for getting clean.

If I'm reading the OP correctly, the dalliance began 2 months ago. Without minimising the extent of the fight ahead, the kratom withdrawal is by most accounts much less arduous than that of heroin/oxycodone/morphine/poppy seed tea etc. I think it would be counter-productive to commence an agent such as suboxone in these circumstances as this could potentially lead to a longterm commitment which by many accounts can leave the user pretty dis-spirited. Suboxone can however be appropriate and very useful in some circumstances.

Its a lot easier to ease yourself out of a habit after a couple of months use than it is further down the line.If I was in the OPs boots I would opt for loperamide and benzodiazepines to tide me through the first week when the nastiness is most apparent.10mg of oxycodone is roughly equivalent to 20mg morphine (both used orally) and may be of some use on the night of day 2 (or better, 3) without retarding progress too much.

Opioid withdrawal if made too easy can perversely kid the user into believing that it's not too bad which paves the way for a lowered resistance to further use, which simply makes the process of getting well that much harder.

So far I have used 5mg of oxycodone over the course of 2 days, dosing as infrequently as possible. So far i have managed to extend the interval between doses to 8-10 hours and am experiencing minimal withdrawal symptoms in between. Corpus Callosum, you suggest that i save the oxycodone until day 2 or 3 of withdrawal, and I was wondering why. Wouldn't taking an opiate during opiate withdrawal just extend the length of the withdrawals? I am thinking of taking a milligram or 2 once a day before bed over the next 2-3 days as i ease myself into withdrawal.

With regards to the possibility of loperamide, I am going to use some once the oxycodone runs dry. What dosage of loperamide would you suggest to take in order to stave off withdrawal symptoms, how often should i dose loperamide, and also, should i combine it with a p-glycoprotein inhibitor such as tonic water to allow loperamide to cross the the BBB (If tonic water isnt a p-glycoprotein inhibitor, what OTC drugs would serve as p-glycoprotein inhibitors)?

I have kept this addiction to myself and the nexus and have no desire to consult a physician in person as I fear criticism for my mistake and do not wish to be put on opiate replacement therapy or be given benzos as i do not want to replace one moderate addiction with a far worse one which i will have to sustain far longer than i had to sustain my original addiction. I am going back to college in late august and want to be completely opiate/cannabis free by the time I go back. Cold turkey is my only choice and I want to ease into opiate withdrawal as smoothly as possible so that way the shock on my system from opiod cessation will be more moderate than if I had been taking large doses on a fairly constant basis and then instantly ceased consumption.

I do however have a couple of ounces of kava root bark. I know that kava root bark acts on GABA in a matter similar to alcohol and benzodiazepines and am wondering if the kava could help with opiod withdrawal in a manner similar to benzos. Also, would combining kava and loperamide help better with opiate withdrawal than taking either drug on its own?

I would like to extend a hearty thank you to all who have volunteered advice and encouragement on this thread and will keep your updated on my progress! I will get this monkey off my back. I just gotta believe in myself!

Much love,
-Spicemaster

Kava kava may help a little, although the jury is still out on whether it works through a GABA pathway or not. One study found that GABA antagonists didn't antagonize the anxiolytic or sedative effects of kavalactones. While Kava Kava is really good for anxiety (comparable to benzos, in my experience), expecting it to be a perfect substitute for the other effects might leave you feeling disappointed.

Cannabis is an enormous help. Some people aren't comfortable with the idea of just replacing one drug with another, but many people have found it to be enormously helpful. Like kratom, dependance is a possibility, but it's much easier to ween yourself off of MJ than hydrocodone.

Meditation might help with the psychological aspects.

Best of luck to you!

The duration of the worst part of withdrawals' physical symptoms is around 5 days; using opiates to carry you through this should ,IMO/E, be to simply make the torment bearable.Its quite surprising how a tiny dose can ease the misery after a couple of days abstinence and I think the 2nd night is typically when the restlessness reaches its peak and using a relatively small dose (of oxycodone, in your case)at this point should perhaps allow a little sleep to take place.IME taking a strong mu agonist at this point only does not retard ones progress significantly, certainly compared to dosing small amounts regularly from the last dose of ones regular poison.

The dose of loperamide really depends on the severity of the symptoms and again should really be taken to ameliorate (and not totally abolish) the symptoms (IMO).

Obviously there's nothing inherently evil about the plant. Depending on how you use it, it can be an ally or a demon. I used kratom extract to ease the withdrawals of heroin and a hefty poppy tea habit. Some people use it only occasionally for theraputic or recreational purposes.



Oxycodone is much stronger than kratom and for this reason I would not recommend using it to taper off of kratom.

Sometimes you just have to pay the piper. As if you were taking out a loan on pleasure. You can keep adding to your debt, but eventually you gotta pay up and feel the opposite extreme of the pleasure you borrowed, which is, in this case...opiate withdrawal! Yin and yang.

It could be very beneficial for you to just go through the withdrawals and be mindful during the process. The experience could teach you about your strengths and provide motivation to not put yourself through the pain again.



See above, but I have found a proper diet and exercise to be helpful in dealing with any lingering withdrawals after the acute phase is over.



Hot baths with epsom salts will be your best friend at night when you're kicking your sheets, trust me.

After the intense part is over, taking cold showers could provide an endorphin boost, among other benefits: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=26111



Depends on the drug(s) in question and the severity of your habit.

IME, oxy, heroin and kratom extract were all 2-3 days. Poppy tea was around 4-5 days.

I recommend checking out this thread also: Quitting opiates/addictive substances - Tips, strategies, complimentary tools

You can do this! You made the choices that led to your current behavior, and you can make the choice to stop. You can accomplish miracles if your intention to change is strong and you have the available emotional energy, and by this I simply mean to adopt the mentality of the person or change you want to be, and not the usual over-indulging, energy-draining behavior of the "addict" mentality.

Also keep in mind that often times quitting is the easy part- abstaining from (or moderating) use of your opiate of choice can be the difficult part, especially if one has low emotional energy and/or is still operating in "addict" mode of thinking, however, in my experience, once I made the decision to stop over-indulging in my DOC and shifted my thinking patterns, most of the psychological cravings went away.

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it can be inspiring to read of others' progress and accomplishments, but on the other, everyone's situation and interpretation of the experience is different and it can be discouraging to read some of the horror stories out there.

IME, the more you focus on and identify with withdrawal symptoms, the worse they can become.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this yet, but psychedelics can also be used in treating addiction. They've certainly helped me with my addictions (nicotine, alcohol, and cocaine). I'd probably say you'd need to read into more the shrooms/lsd/mesc variety than DMT as the longer trips give you more time to sit back and think about how to break the addictive cycle, but that's just my perspective.

I agree.. psychedelics can allow you to see your own self and situation from an incredible point of perspective. However, if it's not your thing to do that there are many herbal formulas that can help balance behavior such as addiction. I recommend chyawanprash.

Have you done it before? While quitting a substance, it really really helps to know other people have experienced the same thing and got through it, especially if they were worse off than you. But, inspiration is just a minor byproduct of reading other people's success/failure stories, it's more about putting a perspective on what he is going through.

It could be MUCH WORSE. Knowing this, could really help him get through the couple days of mild detox/withdrawal that he is going through. It's more psychological than anything else, after that. I don't mean to say "mild" in a belittling fashion, just that we all know it could be much worse. And really, reading about people who had it MUCH WORSE and got through it.. that is some real motivation. He CAN do it. He is NOT alone.

With regards to avoiding focusing and avoiding identifying.. you can't avoid that which is currently present, trying to avoid the withdrawal symptoms will definitely just make it harder. What he is experiencing is his body and mind recovering, not only is it good for him, but it's meant to teach him something. Do you suggest he just tries to ignore it and learn nothing from it?

It will only last a finite amount of time, and it will not get any worse than it was already going to get. This is a perfect opportunity to practice meditation using unpleasant sensations, they DO go away just like the pleasant ones.

Where there exists the appearance of suffering, is where the end of suffering exists as well, if you try to run away from the suffering, you are running away from the end of suffering as well.

A week or so until I decided to go cold turkey, I had an interesting oral harmalas + smoalked dmt experience which gave me some advice about this process. It told me that simply taking a psychedelic and begging it to get you out of this hell on earth wouldn't do me any good other than make the withdrawals worse. IT told me that I and only I can beat this addiction by my own volition and persistance. Only I can get myself out of this. Tripping in the hopes to get out of withdrawal isn't going to get me anywhere. I need to bite the bullet and abstain not only from opiates but other psychedelics too, especially the longer lasting ones! When i am tripping hard on a longer lasting one such as LSD or mescaline i may get the desire to take an opiate or a benzo in order to relax if I feel extremely stressed and uncomfortable (which I would definitely be if I made the mistake of tripping when in withdrawals).

That brings me to another thing-tripping is all about set and setting. Being under the influence of a powerful hallucinogenic drug (sans iboga-I have no way of finding that ATM and have no desire to try it as I do not have the time or trip sitter to get me through that tornado of a trip) while in an unpleasant and miserable state of mind due to opiate withdrawal sounds terrible. The physical and mental symptoms of withdrawal would only drag the trip down and turn it into an unbearable experience. I have myself and only myself to blame for getting into this mess and only I have the power to free myself from this addiction.

I have also decided to take Corpus Callosum's advice and conserve my last 5mg of oxycodone until day 2-3 of withdrawal. I took 1 mg of oxycodone at 6 PM on July 27th (Eastern US time) and have not taken any more since. AS of the time of me writing this post it has been approximately 19 hours since taking an opiod and so far the withdrawal symptoms are fairly mild. I feel some fatigue, a mild state of dysphoria, and some headaches and body aches which are being controlled with NSAIDS. I cannot complain too much about the withdrawal so far, but then again it has only been 19 hours...

I am eating normally and havent yet noticed any changes in bowel movements yet. I have a very small amount of cannabis in case if the nausea gets too much or if i need to eat or take my mind off opiates for a brief moment. I can feel the effects slowly rising and getting more and more intense as the day passes by and know that i'll be in for a real treat over these next few days

I am expecting the symptoms to peak over the next few days and am prepared to attenuate any suffering with generous doses of kava, NSAIDS, and plenty of warm showers, hot tubs, and excercise to keep the endorphans flowing!

I am taking this experience in stride with good intentions and an open mindset. Opiate withdrawal, like any other low point in one's life, is a learning and enlightening experience as to how powerful and soul crushing a drug can truly be. It is a time for me to collect my spirits, find myself, and discover the hidden drive within me the desires to be free, independent and proud of myself. I have nothing to lose but an addiction and only the rest of my life to gain.

I will be regularly updating this thread with the current status of my withdrawal experience over the next few days in the hopes that others may also know what it is like to go through withdrawal in a manner similar to me. Thank you all for taking the time and energy to communicate with me and advise me as to how to make withdrawal as painless as possible! I am in your debt.

Much Love,
-Spicemaster

Yes, I have looked up opiate withdrawal symptoms and opiate withdrawal stories online.





I'm happy to hear that you find motivation in knowing it can be much worse, but strength and willpower can be found in many ways. We all have our own paths up the mountain.



I didn't say to avoid them.



As in, in my experience, I eventually found it counterproductive to put my time and energy into thinking about withdrawals and opiates.



Friend, we are on the same page! Did you read my other post? #9