If I had a dollar for every time I was talking to someone who had a beer in one hand and a cig in the other who said "I don't do drugs" or "I outgrew marijuana... you'll get over it eventually, it's just a phase".

Maybe older members have heard that before...

...but for me alcohol is the ultimate entheogen. My daily intake is around 5-6 beers of 6%+ ABV, which is already high for conventional (see "government guidelines" ) standards. I sure love the taste of beer (yes even cheap diluted piss-warm lagers), good whiskeys (hey I live in Scotland) and only the cheapest of vodkas.

Sure there are plenty of drawbacks and abuse potential to alcohol, but that never stopped me from being a productive individual, a good father and supportive partner and trustworthy friend. Maybe I just know my limits well enough to integrate my alcohol practice in my life's routine.

At very high alcohol doses I am also lucky that I do not become abusive, aggressive or awfully obnoxious. I think I just turn ridiculously stupid; think of parcouring at graveyards dressed as ballerina then fracture my leg kind of stupid.

Inf is a great example of how things are definitely not black and white.

Also I think its significant to note that some indigenous people also consider fermented alcoholic drinks as sacred, and some even use it together with ayahuasca (like the shuar IIRC), which throws the whole `dieta` ideas some people have out the window, lol.

We all have our own tools that we use, and I don´t think any of those are inherently good nor bad, it´s all about how you relate to it and the consequences of its use. If you aren´t hurting anybody, putting others at risk or generally being a drunken nuisance, and it´s serving for your happiness and well being, I don´t see anything wrong with it. Still not drinking it myself, but go right ahead

Seriously, it is amazing how people can hold this delusion so strongly. When I was court-ordered to attend Alcoholics Anonymous I had a really hard time sitting there and biting my tongue while everyone discussed how great their lives were without psychoactive substances, despite the fact that most of them had a cigarette in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other.

The problem with alcohol is the false sense of intimacy that it gives:

- listening and speaking are spontaneous, but false, under influence one nor hears nor speaks, but feels he is doing both.

- alcohol makes one feel secure and safe... It is not demanding..., and that's why is drug of our choice of human race, along with weed, and coke.

- as ageing goes, the person has no way to deal with the ageing process, it is relaxed in-touch with himself only when wet.


There is a lots of homework for the person who drinks to undertake, but no way the inner demons are trapped by drinking. Alcohol is not a balsam for the wound of our suffering, it is the poison that makes us suffer even more. As my friend says- I am better person when I drink.

And the bigger picture is the prevalence in our civilisation, I used to live in huge Mexican tourist place, beautiful bay, nature, see, food, and all humans are wet!!!! It brings along prostitution, coke... It is so sad to watch how people get more and more destroyed by it, over years. And even those who drank occasionally, eventually end up fat, ugly, with impossible characters.

I used to look at the air planes landing in Mexico, full with 1000's of 1000's of tourists who come to drink, drink and drink ad infinitum ....I fantasise what would the bay look like had some other drug be served: peyote, Iboga, mushrooms, kava, and in the recreational way, to ease out the socialisation, but at the same time to make one grow, so it would be play and work at the same time.

Had the psychedelics been served instead of alcohol, we would be in Shambala.

I have to disagree with this entirely.

Granted there are levels of intoxication when one will not be aware whether he speaks or even shits, but this is true of most substances. I believe alcohol should be held the on the same level as other tools in this regard.

IME I find bonds made over alcohol to be much stronger and truer than bonds made over MDMA and I imagine a host of other similar compounds which people consider bonding substances. When it comes to crunch these substances that supposedly dissolve barriers mainly just temporarily obscure them.



See here, this quote is just putting a halo over what you personally approve of because psychedelics used among the uneducated are just as destructive as the next tool.

I have a really good friend who makes his own wines from berries and herbs he wildcrafts. They are really great and loaded with medicine. I do find myself occasionally sitting on the beach with him and friends sipping maybe half a glass of wine while passing around some joints.

I dunno, live a little I guess? The occasional glass of wine etc wont kill you. Lately, life has had this funny way of telling me to seriously lighten the frak up.

I dont really do the drinking thing. I have grown up watching family members slowy drink themselves to death. It is sad and pathetic. I dont even enjoy being drunk. But a couple sips of wine with friends and cannabis goes nicely with an epic sunset on the beach.


What...no love for Dionysus?

My thoughts exactly. In almost every possible conceivable manner.


This was my childhood and teenage years. My parents were both alcoholics and I watched my mother drink herself to death while I have no idea what became of my biological father. He's most likely dead from his addiction or in jail.

I never enjoyed it either, thank god, or I would have probably ended up just like my parents. Obviously I have some bias towards alcohol because of the devastation it has wrought on my life. And I know I'm far from being alone; it has destroyed many lives.

Cannabis...not so much. The only real devastation comes from imprisonment IMO. I do struggle with a pretty heavy cannabis habit, but I'm still able to function relatively normally in my daily life. I don't do or say idiotic things when I'm stoned. I tend to get very introspective and meditate or do something creative like write or play a musical instrument. I don't live in denial that I have a problem, like countless people who abuse alcohol. Like was said, cannabis is just FAR superior and FAR less dangerous.


I much prefer Shiva, Lord of Bhang.

If I ever became involved with the pornography industry, Lord of Bhang would definitely be my on-screen name.

Fair enough if this has been your personal experience, but maybe such a definitive claim is not universally applicable.



Maybe alcohol has the potential to cause suffering, but there is also a large body of literature (Mazue et al. 2014; Droste et al. 2013; Corder et al. 2006 .. the list could go on and on here)that suggest possible health benefits associated with alcohol intake.



I'm not sure if this is what you have seen in a sample-set of the population or if you are suggesting a causal link between occasional alcohol intake and excessive weight gain ("fat" )?


Personally, there are times when a glass of red goes down pretty well.

I used to get utterly ferked on the weekends, but now I only like to drink moderately whilst on phenibut...it's a brilliant combo hehe

Interesting, I have been getting this same message recently. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!

Sometimes after an exhausting trip, I just wanna kick back and relax, pound a few beers and burp and get buzzed.

Yeah, brother, Balance is everything. Nuttin wrong wit gettin tippy after a hearty DMT workout.

The only real devastation is actual imprisonment, I mean Im not judging but that's a pretty hefty side effect of cannabis addiction! Least you are aware you have issues unlike the usual pious holier than thou weed smokers, my father being one of them

I used to be a total weed addict now hardly touch the stuff so I do know the stages it can get to, did also get busted for growing plants, luckily they were too stupid to know what a dmt extraction is and I avoided jail. But the weed smokers going oh cannabis is far superior, well its not, its subjective I much prefer alcohol to weed. Weed makes me quite and withdrawn and actually only smoke it in small amounts after alcohol usually. I know some drug users who say mdpv is the superior drug, good example of being subjective.

I drink usually once a week, on a sunday after work, but not always but being on holiday Ive been drinking roughly 2-3 times a week. I never black out, always remember and its always a good experience. See I moved away from Scotland to Vietnam and the drinking culture is different, people go out to eat seafood and drink beer, food and beer go hand in hand. Because its so warm all year round I drink a lot of beer now, whereas before in Scotland it was always red wine. This attitude by vox that youl end up sick and with a big beer belly isnt based in reality, its based in prejudice and piousness. You get some really nice home made rice wines from the mekong delta, they are just in plastic bottles but they are far superior to the rice wines on offer in the city. Vietnam is the second cheapest place for beer in the world, it might be first not sure think ukraine or someone is first, but it makes for lots of different and interesting beers, can get a litre of home brew for like 20 us cents and its decent stuff, so yeah like the beer a lot last couple years been good trying different ones and of course the rice wine.

I recently started to really enjoy straight whisky, just a few when family were visiting were really nice. My step father is a pretty quite man but likes whisky never been my thing so I tried some and really liked it, had the best time talking about history, philosophy and religion with him, hes the smartest guy Ive ever met in real life, knows so much about history and other topics and he only really opens up after a few whiskys. Swear when Im sitting with him and were at those stages it feels like an elder sharing his wisdom and passing it down to me and its such a learning valuable experience that probably wouldnt happen without whisky.

I do agree alcohol is dangerous though, my brother is an alcoholic and cant control himself, he does really well then all of a sudden its bender city and he acts like a dick so I do see the negatives of it, but I dont get like that, neither do most people. Oh and to the OP, my friend, who drinks like twice a year if that, used to work in a bar, he drank all the time when he worked there and its not like him. In the area there were a lot of bars where we lived and all the long term staff would go from bar to bar drinking during the day and stuff, they were all alcoholics because they worked in that environment long term.

This is really a funny topic. A discussion about alcohol on a entheogenic university .

All these arguments back and forth while the situation is just as it is. People drink loads of alcohol and the substances usually discussed here are like a small margin in the totality of global intoxication.

But I read somewhere that cannabis is far more widely used than alcohol worldwide. So it's good think this discussion get's focused on alcohol and weed.

Personally I always choose for the side of weed, I wouldn't state it's 'superior' - just that it has qualities that appeal to me more than alcohol. But as someone stated a weed addiction is easier to obtain than alcohol addiction.

I dont drink nearly as often as I used to . It just bores me and makes me depressed nowadays. Its no good for me past a certain point and I have a tendency to keep drinking.

Im actually quite good at it I can drink a ridiculous amount and I dont pass out I just descend into a completely detached and severely disjointed state but my ability to speak and walk stays in tact.
Ive lost freinds nearly been arrested have caused my self extreme embarrassment and physical injury not to mention cause severe depression. It basically hits the self destruction button after a certain amount.

I do still like a few beers now and again (especially a good lager or ale) I still love a cold beer on a hot summers evening either with friends or on my own in the garden. Or a few pints with friends in a pub.
With a spliff it helps me unwind nicely and I enjoy the combination in moderation. I avoid spirits as much as I can but sometimes I'll have a JD or bundy on special occasions and I have managed to moderate it when I do (most of the time).

I used to go out on the town when I eas younger as many of us did to the packed bars, dingey discos and clubs where all manner of assholes and idiots hang out fighting and trying to pull the drunken women. The binge drinking scene of the UK.

Once I went out stoned to these places and became acutely aware of the atmosphere and shallowness of all these people trying to act cool and part of something that really most probably dont really like numbing themselves to the diabolical music and company with alcohol.
Dont get me wrong there were also some fun nights dancing like fools and chatting shit with mates, ending up in the kebab shop or burger wagon for some horrendous burger that tasted good at the time. However many nights I would end up finding myself down some semi familiar streets trying to get home 100 pounds worse off.

I much preffered the house/rave music scene where drinking was of course also common place but the addition of MDMA would remove the negative effects of alcohol, until the next day that is.

There was a big rave club in the UK that didnt sell alcohol for many years and the atmosphere was amazing during the 90s but then they started selling alcohol and the atmosphere turned to shit apparently. No surprise!

One alcoholic drink a day could raise risk of heart disease, study finds
Study contradicts claims that low to moderate consumption of alcohol has a protective effect

http://www.theguardian.c...heart-disease-risk-study

I have Scottish blood from both sides of my family, plus my parents grew up in Canada. So the 'drinking culture' is very strong, you could say. It's completely normal to drink every single weekend, even after work during the week. It can get out of hand very easily, especially when it's considered 'the norm'. I have never lived anywhere but places where the culture was soaked in alcohol consumption so I do admit to being biased.

Maybe if I went down to Jamaica and saw some of the darker side of Rastafarian life or something like that it would change my perspective on cannabis


I would say for every three or four casual drinkers, there is one who loses control and becomes an addict. Not so good numbers. At least where I live, where the vast majority of adults drink on a regular basis. Admittedly being biased, I still think those numbers are far better with cannabis.

I know it sounds like I'm ignoring any negative side to cannabis use, but I'm definitely not. I have spent far too much money and become rather lethargic from abusing cannabis. I would get very irritable when I didn't have it, have a hard time sleeping and eating properly, etc. It's far from perfect, I just see it as a much better alternative to alcoholism because I've seen how terrible and wretched people can become while in that addiction.

If you can drink responsibly and enjoy yourself, all the power to ya. But we can't ignore the fact that alcohol turns a lot of people into belligerent raving lunatics. That it's abused far too often, and the abuse is even encouraged in many situations.

"it's better to abuse this substance than that substance".

"My shit smells better than their shit..."


...etc.