I'll be returning to hbwr/mint in time. Entropy mentioned leaving the extraction process for at least 18-20 hrs, so it'll take some time before I get to report. I'm very excited about this because there are different effects with mint; unusually subtle, quick and smooth so far.

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Very interesting thread, You've inspired me to give the HBWR I have lying around a go when I next feel ready for a trip. You've helped me decide on using a CWE, Thanks!

Your welcome, glad to be of assistance. Of what strain are your seeds? How do you plan to proceed? CWE is simple but requires close attention.

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I am so glad that i contributed to this! Please don't forget to post the experiences
Cheers!

I've got 1000 hawaiian strain baby wood rose that are supposedly high quality.

I'm thinking of starting with maybe 4 seeds, grinding them up in a pestle and mortar, putting them in a container that is protected from UV, adding lightly acidified distilled water (using concentrated lemon juice) and letting it sit for a day in the fridge. Then as you did add 2 - 3 drops of peppermint essential oils, letting it sit for another 12 hours or so, shaking occasionally. filtering then drinking making sure to dose 5 drops of lemon essential oil (the combat any potential 5-ht3 induced nausea and having generous amounts of cannabis / hash to once again help with the nausea / body load.

Sounds good?

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That is quite the load of seeds! Are they fresh? If not that is okay, you'll still receive effects. If they are truly hawaiian then yes they are genuine seeds.

4 seeds isn't too harsh to start with. On the cusp of psychedelic. Expect some slgiht waves of nausea(cannabis or ginger really does help to curve this). Okay, very good! Do not be afraid to add more water, it only expands the whole process.

You don't want it to sit for too long, though. 24 hrs max with added essential oil half way through. I say this because the compounds can be very unstable. Stir gently frequently unless you are sure of shaking. I had problems with shaking.

In the end, if all goes according to plan, you should have yourself a nice, simple extract!

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The longer you let it sit in solution the higher the chances are to get your LSA destroyed. There is a sweet spot between taking most alkaloids out from seeds and avoiding major alkaloid damage. Every aromatic oil you put in is at most a rabbits foot. And if you kick it with hashish you won't know how good the trip will be.
Oh and 1000 hbwr seeds is a lot and makes for quite a good quantity to experiment with but that doesn't mean you should mess up your brains. Have some weeks between trips and don't go overboard with the seeds (4 won't do much either i believe).
Oh and you should really treat your lemon juice extract with some oil.. this step will insure some of the nasty glycosides to go into the oil and lowering the nausea for a lot.
Add essential oils afterwards.

Best of luck to you though!
Cheers!

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How is the LSA destroyed? Surely it degrades over long periods of time. But besides that, letting the process sit in the fridge helps to stabilize extraction.

HBWR needs to sit for longer periods of time to release all of the alkaloids, compared to MG which only takes about 30 min to yield an extraction because there are way more seeds to work with. Clearly letting the seeds sit for more than 24 hrs will only yield dangerous, rotten ergots.

Hashish (IMO) will only produce a greater experience overall and will combat any nausea or vomiting. (IME), cannabis plays a major role in delivering a nice, psychedelic experience. Obviously 4 HBWR isn't truly psychedelic, but it's a start to lay some footing down. 10-14 seeds is a maximum dosage, though many have gone beyond this. Agreed, time needs to be taken between due to the vasoconstriction LSA plays a part of.



What do you mean oil? Essential oil is the oil. Lemon juice is lemon juice.

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Good, if he uses lemonene it can act as a nonpolar solvent but not 4 drops of it, and ingesting it kind of beats the whole point doesnt it?
In this tek all non polar solvents should be discarded afterwards.
If he still wants to use aromatic oils he should add them after the cooking oil or what ever other non polar pull he wants to do but that is just my advice and chemistry logic.
There are no rotten ergots (not like you put it anyway), you will either have a maximum amount of alkaloids extracted or not. The "bad" ergots will have the same or around solubility constants as LSA, lesser time of extraction will pull less of everything and you will feel less side effects but that's about it.
The decomposition of alkaloids and their stability in a solution i will leave to a better chemist than myself but i'm almost certain the shelflife is very much lowered in a solution, by how much you should do tests i guess. But i guess doing it in a fridge and for 24 hours is not really a big loss so yeah, we agree there.
As for hashish, if you do a good pull you won't need it in my opinion. I try to keep all my experiences pure, at least at first, to see what the potential that plant has.
Be free to mix with what ever you want Hashish will give you a high to remember anyway.
Cheers!

Thank you.

So, yesterday(after the 24 hour mark) I drank the extract of 4 hbwr(indian) seeds let sit in distilled cool water after boiling/simmering, put in fridge with tinfoil wrapped in large jar, with added essential PE oil half way through(4 drops). Some slight stirring here and there. The resulting water almost had a golden/bronze color to it. I filtered and drank all of the clear, crisp water by leaving out as much mush as possible over a 1 hour period, so this was taken quite slowly, some food in stomach as well. Next time I'll be fasting to encourage peak effects sooner as you'll read below.

After about an hour or 2, typical and amazing effects of smiling, slight euphoria, mood lift, relaxation, laziness(mentally/physically), more interest in thoughts, physically lifted, tranquility, enhancement of senses, colorful engagement with reality etc. Some slight nausea but completely vanished from some tobacco smoking. The visuals tended to be much more explicit after about a 5-6 hour period after consumption and mixed with fast, direct, cannabis smoking in the evening. This can be very explicit in a dark, silent room.

The visuals seen from this experience were the strongest out of all the rest of prior hbwr experiences(due to highest amount thus far; and TEK?). Moderate CEV with mild OEV. Sharp, organic, colorful, dimensional, esoteric, ancient and geometric shapes, objects, figures floating and passing through my closed eyelids. Was having one recurrent visual pattern with the realization of hearing my own thoughts speak in profound sounds, it was strange but pleasant and psychedelic. Its as if they were informing me of something to pay attention to, visual wise. Also, I had the greatest sleep during the coming up period. My bed felt all fuzzy and alive, as did everything else. Sharper sensual and aesthetic movement and texture.

I hope to upload the photo I took of extraction jar in time. I'm thinking of(next time around), specifically genuine hawaiian baby woodrose, 5 seeds) to recover the leftover mush, drying/freezing it and then with further extraction and separation. Thoughts?

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Wow CH, i wasn't expecting to be so nice from just 4 seeds. Slight passing nausea too. Congrats on your trip sir! About your future extraction i don't know what to say, it would of been nice to test the 2nd extract for alkaloid presence (at least at UV light). It's worth checking for sure.
Did you experience any entities in the visuals or near your person? Or is this experience more of an abstract one?

Neither did I. Realistically, many people cannot achieve effects like this with only 4 seeds. The extract was quite large by the way, to give enough room for all of the alkaloids to escape. Quite surprised with how well the visuals came to be. No, entities is not something I've experienced with LSA. It was more so closer to other auditory phenomena. Perhaps with much higher doses entities is quite possible.

The effects were mostly mild, but definitely moderate visuals at peak of experience.

And yes, completely worth checking for. Excited for future endeavors, will be uploading photo soon. And now, its time for 250 true morning glories, at least before I continue with HBWR. All out of HBWR atm, so I've decided to be with MG and continue HBWR another time, fresh batch. Also, how is your original TEK going?

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Stagnating, no single user used it and reported back here. But small variations like the tek you used are ok and give me great hope. Waiting on my mgs to grow up btw
What volume did you use btw?
And why do you think the visuals kicked in 5 hours later?

I am asking because it is harder and harder for me to associate LSA with the Eleusian mysteries.. Maybe ergot (and LSA) was not behind it after all and everything was more like easter ressurection or something.

I hope for your harvest kindwill. I just have packages of organic morning glories like flying saucers and heavenly blue(you can order these quite easily, no hassle), growing lots of morning glory too. They are spectacular plants with beautiful flowers. Vines are snake-like, almost spiral-like in direction of growth, heart shaped leaves, powerful flowers and seeds. Its amazing to develop a relationship with it and care for it, as it does for you. LSA also has a long duration process of about 10 hours, visual peak after 5 hours or so IME. Other effects happened before and after this.

The volume of the extract? Well, it was stored within a jar(about 12 inches in height). A 3rd of the jar was filled with material.

I feel its different for everyone. As said, some food content was in my stomach, and also the fact I consumed this jar over an hour long period, nice and slow. Cannabis has a pronounced effect with LSA, especially at peak. Sure seemed to work this way. I will be fasting next time around.

Fantastic source:

http://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/LSA

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Good link indeed.
Here are the latest theories:
Kykeon was made with pennyroyal (a mint that produces poisonous volatile oils) and seems that it was safe to drink by a large crowd. The mysteries were done every year by a whole lot of people.
So, first theory, maybe there is something to pennyroyal and mints after all.
Second theory, the barley contains a natural alkaloid called hordenine that can boost phenethylamines but LSA is not a phenethylamine sadly.
No theory is sound for now. Wish i had some other people to work with on this one..
Seems that cannabis can actually boost the experience but i won't use it when i'm going to try it for myself. I want to check the raw experience for myself even though is far from ergot kykeon, i will know if LSA (and the other lysergic alkaloids) is the alkaloid behind or not

Yes, with correct prep, there is something subtly recognized with mint. Especially in color recognition (IME) and some other subtle effects. And also how powerful 4 hbwr seeds was in conjunction with cannabis, mint and water. I am curious if 4 hbwr seeds by themselves without mint would do the same with repeated TEK.

I suppose you could see for yourself.

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Kykeon seems to utilize many different plants into one mixture. HBWR is a popular candidate due to concentration of alkaloids. LSA is closer to tryptamines than that of phenethylamines.



- Wikipedia

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IME, my first experience with MG began with eating 25 seeds, followed by another 25 seeds in combination with cannabis.

Read my first LSA experience here if interested: I gladly respect the pure experience of LSA, its very therapeutic. Cannabis seems to gently or 'radically' heighten the effects. Mint, thus far, seems to enhance the quality of effects, nothing radical though.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=536345#post536345

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They say Phalaris grows on every continent yet i never saw it here (somewhere in Europe). I even wrote a thread about miss identifying Phalaris for other weeds from Poacea family, very easy to do that mistake I believe that all the sacred plants were drawn in iconographies and such, all of them had to be "accepted" by Demeter and in direct relationship with the mythology used, no mushroom or acacia or phalaris for that matter drawings as of yet. Poppies actually appear but they are hardly entheongenic hehehe. I think its easier to mass produce ergot than psilocybe but i might be wrong. Hope they find some container to do some analysis, they can detect the presence of one or another alkaloid even after millenia.
Cheers

Phalaris arundinacea has a high population in Europe my friend. Yes, many other similar plants. Although, true phalaris comes from growing it. Most wild strains will not be exact and minimal in content, and sometimes possibly dangerous, though this can vary itself. Phalaris will suck up other compounds growing near-by such as phragmites, nightshades, lead etc. The alkaloid content varies with season, early spring-summer is perfect harvest or just after rainfall. It is better to just grow your own Phalaris.

Poppies(when mixed with other psychoactive) may prove some valuable effects, being a safe euphoriant and relaxant(when used correctly).

Ergot and psilocybe vary greatly IMO. It depends on which method of growth is of use with mushrooms.

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Exactly!
How did they not kill the masses of participants yet still keep it active