Hi again,
Went to Erowid experience vault for MG and started reading with this little experiment in my head.
I wanted to keep just the experiences that were resembling LSD and started with the newest ones (thinking that people over time would get more educated). These experiences are a building base for further experimentation. Since i am only interested in MG effects on the users i skipped the mixing experiences (mixing with shrooms, dmt, weed etc). Also most of the reports of ingesting MG seeds as is turned bad to worse with nothing that i am looking for in them, so i left those out also (still read every one of them). Even the mazatecs claimed that you needed water to make the seeds "speak".. a simple conclusion would be that if they are taken as is they don't "speak"
These are my conclusions.
-water extraction seems like a very good idea
-people ingesting the seeds reported few visual trips resembling lsd
-very few positive trips and they were extraction (since i narrowed my search to just extraction teks)
-some other silly conclusions like people do not get more educated in time, people have problems dosing this stuff and overshoot or undershoot it easily, the nausea can be countered with tekking, actually i haven't found a trip that involved vomiting with CWE
-nausea is caused by glycosides, reading a scientific article about the glycosides from MG seeds there are 2 kinds, one that dissolves in nonpolar solvents and the other that dissolves in polar solvents. Tekking takes care of the nonpolar nasties but the polar ones are still there, so that explains the slight nausea reported.

Here are some "good" reports that i found.. notice the huge number

https://www.erowid.org/e...riences/exp.php?ID=74462
https://www.erowid.org/e...riences/exp.php?ID=45667

Care to contribute with other SWIMs reports?

Later edit:
Oh yeah, forgot to mention this very important bit!
A lot of people don't know what they are doing when "extracting" and ended up reporting just bad cramps or nothing at all

I did Kash's tek, and messed up on one of the last steps by shaking it and not waiting for the emulsion to settle. Result: slight trip and nausea.

Kash's TEK is probably the best way to go from here. Although, a simple CWE can still produce a psychedelic experience. I find that eating low dose MG, mixed with cannabis smoking(reduces nausea and vomiting) can produce nice psychedelic effects. It varies from person to person, though. I feel its important to begin low and work up the dosage in time. Some swear by CWE whereas others don't mind eating the seeds. Some view the negative effects an essential asset of the experience. Similar to that of how ayahuasca operates.

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-Water extraction prevails usually considering it reduces the heavy somatic effects of MG. This tends to give way to a clearer, less worrisome experience.

-In my experience, CWE as well as eating the seeds produce visuals, especially when mixed with cannabis(this I swear by). Eating the seeds produces negative effects due to the glycosides. I've never experienced heavy negative effects from CWE. All of my experiences with MG have been positive in some way or another, even if it started with negative, purging effects.

-The Aztecs also regarded MG as a highly evolved spiritual plant, more so than mushrooms. They would only use 26 seeds(which is a sacred, mathematical number sequence according to them and other tecs) and would allow a virgin to crush up fresh seeds and mix it with water.

From posted Erowid report -

Can definitely relate to all of these effects from 150 MG seeds, I haven't gone higher than that yet. Many people compare LSA to a light LSD-25 experience, although it has its own unique effect by itself, as does acid.

Also, I recommend growing the plant to develop a relationship.

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Thank you all for the replies,
Honestly i wasn't expecting any attention but
Welcome!
I am working my way up in chemistry theory to propose my own tek, which will be very cheap and hopefully as effective as the more advanced teks. But i really wish another chemist would look at this. Here it goes.

KW-tek

- First acidify water with lemon juice (vinegar also works) to recommended ph (around 3 - this will taste sour but you dont want it too sour, something that you can drink and be fine with it). (Add sugar for a cool lemonade )

- With this solution you treat your ground up MG seeds. Theory behind this step:
Alkaloids will get salted and dissolve in the water. Most glycosides will remain in seed pulp. Leave this for a day or two (i need to actually experiment with this to see what is better).Remove seed pulp by filtering.

- Add cooking oil on top of this solution to remove any nonpolar components that leached in your lemonade. You should notice a change in color. Remove oil. Do this until you get a clean oil layer on top. Remove last added oil. Since you are using this to remove extra glycosides from our potion and then remove it we wont need any fancy solvent like naphta and what not.

- Drink the water alkaloids and report back

This tek is used to extract alkaloids in their salt form and stops there! Since i haven't found any relevant proof of why i should go further and get the freeform LSA (salts are just as good).

Notes:
I have to thank Samadhi-Sukha-Upekkha of dmt-nexus, his inquires were my inspiration.
I am against defatting seeds step and here is why. Alkaloids if they dont have a choice WILL dissolve in non polar solvents. That means that by defatting the seeds you will actually loose some LSA in the process.
I skipped the "add menthol or cinnamon" part since i strongly believe that step is just placebo, feel free to contradict me.
I do not condone mixing alcohol and alkaloids, feel free to contradict me.
I do not condone mixing LSA with other alkaloids.
Do all of these at your own risk.

Certainly would be interesting to view the results of your TEK. Although, I think something similar has been performed before, not sure where that is sourced but its interesting nonetheless!

Please do experiment and see where it takes you.



Whether its placebo or not, there are Nexians that state added oils can affect the overall experience. Perhaps through enhanced flavour since the disgusting taste of MG-HBWR itself tends to onset nausea quite easily. But lets not get into that atm since this is your TEK we are speaking of.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2405

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I have to thank Samadhi-Sukha-Upekkha of dmt-nexus, his inquires were my inspiration.
Regarding your statement, maybe there is some other mechanism behind that but LSA can't react with menthol or cinnamon.

Its a mystery as of right now. Your TEK doesn't utilize this, though. There is enough talk on other sub-forums of how or what to think of it. I only bring it up as I am experimenting with this tonight with some Indian hbwr.

More possibly related info concerning your idea in here:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6441

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What tek will you use with your HBWR?
I am actually a bit sad right now because i've read some articles of researchers that tried LSA (injecting or otherwise) and reported nothing like LSD trips. I believe that the LSD like trips from MG are either because of another alkaloid or because of a synergy between all those alkaloids present in it. I'm pretty sure that if you could extract only the LSA it would give a bland trip every time.
Man i wish i had a HPLC...

1. Boil up a jars worth of distilled water, let it simmer gradually, let cool off in fridge.

2. Mortar/pestle 3 hbwr seeds, add ground up material to jar of cool water, let sit in fridge(covered with tinfoil), shake up vigorously every 5 min for a total of 30min.

3. Remove tin foil, filter jar remains, filter again, add 3 drops of essential peppermint oil, adjust tin foil again, let sit in fridge for another 30 min while shaking vigorously again every 5 min.

4. Remove TF, drink slowly.

I've yet to try hbwr with CWE and PE. Delighted to begin this by a nice, warm fire tonight.

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Can i beg you to acidify the water you will be using for extraction? You have nothing to lose but more alkaloids to extract.
And best of luck to you dear psychonaut! May you have an lsd-like experience
Too bad we live so far away, i'd really like to check a bit of your extract for fluorescence under an UV light

It was funny because I was just thinking about that on my walk just now. And thank you! I have a good feeling about it. Hopefully all goes well effect-wise. I shall return here to report and examine.

Also, how should I go about acidifying the water? I found this lemon juice concentrate. However, with no pH meter atm will be difficult to manage where I'm at. Thoughts?

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Okay, so I didn't end up using an acidic compound. Its not essential anyways as ancient ways pave the true way with just pure water. Not all went according to plan anyways. I lost a slight bit of the extract during shaking but still recovered most of it. Its been nice so far. Very slight/brief nausea. The usual smiling, visual-auditory-perceptual changes, everything is much more interesting than it actually is etc. However, I noticed something different than that of just taking specifically hbwr by itself. I noticed some visual hue, color changes on flowers(clear and smooth) and some rippling in my peripheral vision. None of this happened before at this light of a dose. Quite intrigued to say the least.

Hope to do this again with higher dosage level, different approach method(similar to what Entropymancer mentioned) and fresh seeds.

Also hope to review your experiment soon to come!

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Thank you very much for sharing that! I was expecting similar results for the dose you have taken. I am curious about something, did you use menthol or not
Well i have a friend who might give a friend some seeds and he will do my tek or a friend who is growing the MGs himself in an apartment but that will take time until ready, like September. I am fairly confident that my tek works as it should. Cheers

Regarding the acidification of water in order to form salts, you don't have to be so exact with it! you have a large interval of pH to play with between 3 to 5. That means that if you squeeze a lemon in your decided extraction water until it tastes like ok for a stronger lemonade it should really be ok to extract with! Sorry for such crude comparisons but if it works it is all that matters. Cheers

Your welcome! Menthol was used, yes. 3 drops of peppermint essential oil. Yes, unfortunately most TEK's without the use of higher grade chemicals and preparation usually end up being quite crude and experimental. As with your TEK, I am curious to which degree the effects unfold.

Peace.

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You know, i never felt the need to "purify" that like the other tekkers out there since you really don't do much of purification as it is. What has an alkaloid nature will get salted and then get into the water and travel "safely" to your brain. If you really want to purify alkaloids, say purify LSA from the rest you need to do a cromatography. Which goes beyond the means of any of us. I just provided a simple method and rationale that is cheap but also very effective. From my point of view.
Why do you blame the higher grade chemicals when you had a low dose
Besides, it takes more LSA then it is presented on scientific articles to do the job. Most sedated people were actually on low doses.
Not that i condone taking higher then recommended doses

Yes, I view your TEK as quite simple without the harsh need to use dangerous methods. This is why I am so interested in your TEK. I don't see why it wouldn't work if performed correctly.

Nothing is of blame. I'm just simply stating that most TEK's presented here on the Nexus are skillfully done with much more powerful means of extraction, separation, evaporation etc. Which don't always work and sometimes are unnecessary. Though, some are highly intelligent means of extraction, which I think we both can appreciate.

So I feel your TEK to be one solution to avoid all of the dangerous routes and focus on just simply extracting the compounds. I too don't condone complex methods as much simpler methods work quite fine. Besides, most TEK's I've seen done on LSA only narrow it down to specifically that, it doesn't change the experience.

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Nothing wrong with all the other teks (presuming that the human behind it actually knows what he is doing, plenty out there who don't know even the basic of chemistry) or with wanting to purify your extract. I apologize if this is what it looked like.
Concentrating the alkaloids, obtaining crystals even is very good and can be really useful to find out how much alkaloids were in your plant and... better dosing them

I wonder if my tek would work for DMT as well?

Won't know until you give it a try! Also, considering its a salt-specific TEK, it should be obtainable with pulling. However, you may need to add a few extra steps, I'm not 100% sure, though. Check out the extraction forums for DMT and see what you can do.

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