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DMT Lab Found With Screaming, Naked Man Options
 
Nathanial.Dread
#1 Posted : 6/23/2014 8:18:52 PM

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It sounds like someone was having some difficulty handling their spice.

I figured this could also go in health and safety. I don't know if the guy was having a bad reaction to naptha fumes, too much spice or some combination therof, but it's a good reminder to stay safe.

http://www.nbclosangeles...est-LAPD--264222391.html

Quote:
Officers encountered a naked, screaming man when they responded to a disturbance call at a San Fernando Valley apartment that authorities later determined was being used to manufacture a powerful hallucinogenic drug often referred to as "Businessman's LSD."

Five Los Angeles Police Department officers, responding to the early morning report Monday, said they felt ill after they arrived at the fume-filled apartment in the 14000 block of Sherman Way in Van Nuys. Officers found a naked man, screaming and acting in a "bizarre" manner, according to the LAPD.


"They immediately started feeling light-headed and started getting headaches," said LAPD Detective Ernie Eskridge. "They exited the location because it appeared it was a narcotics lab."

The officers were treated and released, Eskridge said. The individual found at the residence also was hospitalized in good condition, police said.

Jars containing what appeared to be a brown liquid, plastic bags with mimosa root bark and other items used to manufacture the drug DMT were found in the apartment, according to police. Dimethyltryptamine (DMT), extracted from the mimosa root bark, is a psychedelic compound that can produce brief, but vivid and powerful, hallucinations.

DMT -- known as the "Businessman's LSD" because of the short duration of the drug's mind-altering effects -- is smoked, ingested orally or injected, causing users to lose awareness of their surroundings, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration. Its active chemical is found in South American plants and the drug was featured in the 2010 movie, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule."

"You don't hear it that often," said Detective Keith Honore. "We see it about once a year.

"It's a drug that's produced from the root of the mimosa plant. That's legal to purchase, you can actually buy (the root) on the internet, but to actually reduce it and make it into drug is against the law."

Workers in protective hazardous materials suits carried items out of the apartment. The process of extraction can be dangerous because of the solvents involved, according to authorities.

"It's a pretty good size operation for a DMT lab," Honore said. "They're usually very small, and they make enough for themselves. It looks like he was making enough to sell on the street."

The drug, popular on college campuses, sells for about [REDACTED] per gram, according to investigators.

Sherman Way, closed during the investigation, was reopened at about 5 a.m. Evacuated residents were allowed back into their apartments early Monday.

The 37-year-old man was arrested and booked on suspicion of felony manufacture of narcotics. Bond was set at $75,000.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 

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Guyomech
#2 Posted : 6/23/2014 10:03:02 PM

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Ugh.

Interesting that the cop mentioned that most extractors only do so for themselves, as we've long been encouraging here. So apparently that's part of the reputation of DMT among LEO. Not sure how that helps us, but still interesting.
 
Cosmic Spore
#3 Posted : 6/23/2014 10:49:00 PM

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A reminder to not use/make hallucinogens in an apartment or crowded building.

This is one of the most accurate DMT busts that have made the news that I've seen.

Other than:

Quote:
"It's a drug that's produced from the root of the mimosa plant. That's legal to purchase, you can actually buy (the root) on the internet, but to actually reduce it and make it into drug is against the law."

Detective Keith Honore, do your homework; don't tell the public its legal if there is legal risk or illegality.
 
Nathanial.Dread
#4 Posted : 6/23/2014 10:50:07 PM

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Guyomech wrote:
Ugh.

Interesting that the cop mentioned that most extractors only do so for themselves, as we've long been encouraging here. So apparently that's part of the reputation of DMT among LEO. Not sure how that helps us, but still interesting.

I think it's a little concerning, actually. It means that somehow, the police are able to find people quietly doing home personal extractions and bust them.

Generally, the attitude on The Nexus is that there's little risk of extracting so long as there's no trail of buyers traipsing to and from your door, hence the prohibition on dealing talk, but if these people weren't dealing and still managed to get busted, something may be up. Watched precursors, maybe?
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
Entheogenerator
#5 Posted : 6/23/2014 10:53:14 PM

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Nathanial.Dread wrote:
I think it's a little concerning, actually. It means that somehow, the police are able to find people quietly doing home personal extractions and bust them.

Generally, the attitude on The Nexus is that there's little risk of extracting so long as there's no trail of buyers traipsing to and from your door, hence the prohibition on dealing talk, but if these people weren't dealing and still managed to get busted, something may be up. Watched precursors, maybe?

It says that the officers were responding to a disturbance call. My guess is that this naked guy's screaming was disturbing his neighbors, and the police found his setup in plain sight when they arrived at the apartment.
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Nathanial.Dread
#6 Posted : 6/23/2014 11:18:13 PM

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Entheogenerator wrote:
Nathanial.Dread wrote:
I think it's a little concerning, actually. It means that somehow, the police are able to find people quietly doing home personal extractions and bust them.

Generally, the attitude on The Nexus is that there's little risk of extracting so long as there's no trail of buyers traipsing to and from your door, hence the prohibition on dealing talk, but if these people weren't dealing and still managed to get busted, something may be up. Watched precursors, maybe?

It says that the officers were responding to a disturbance call. My guess is that this naked guy's screaming was disturbing his neighbors, and the police found his setup in plain sight when they arrived at the apartment.

I got that part, the concerning part was when they said: "most people make it for home use" and "we see this once a year."

This suggests that there's a chance that once a year, they're finding people who are quietly extracting for personal use. People a lot like us.

How?
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
universecannon
#7 Posted : 6/23/2014 11:39:26 PM

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Dread, if you read the many other news stories that have been posted here, you'll get an idea how people get caught. Usually it's from some careless mistake on the part of the person or their friends (i.e. smell of solvents concerning the neighbors, people let police into apartment for party/unrelated reason and they spot it, etc.)



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
Infectedstyle
#8 Posted : 6/24/2014 12:15:23 AM
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Yes that or manufacturers of other drugs get caught and the police happen to find small scaled DMT extractions as well. I do not understand how you can have such a huge amounts of naphta fumes. I wonder if the police exceggerated it's effects. They weren't found screaming or atleast not yet so this might indicate that drugs where involved in making this man temporarily psychotic.

I think it is sweet to advocate safety once again, home extractions are dangerous. This guy just went stupid with his naphta fumed appartment.

But if you take a psychedelic on which you are not absolutely sure how you will react you just never know how you might react. You could end up screaming and drawing a lot of attention. It has happened to me. When ur in that psychotic state you can draw a lot of attention and people who don't know you tend to call the cops first before they ask you what is going on. The cops in this story probably never would have known that he was extracting DMT if he just used a little more caution. Not tripping during extractions sounds like a good idea. And if you hide your stuff away from plain sight for the slight chance that the police do invade your appartment for unexpected reasons, I don't see how you can get caught. I know how vulnerable it is to be in a psychotic state and you have a tendency to tell any authorative figure exactly what he wants to know because you are dying to get help. Any given cop will almost certainly ask you where you obtained illegal drugs. So you are hardpressed to imprint in your mind that even in such a state never to tell him that you are manufacturing drugs because you will inadvertently buy yourself some jailtime doing so. Cops will relentlessly put you on trial and jailtime is imminent.
 
Continuum
#9 Posted : 6/24/2014 12:33:27 AM

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Cosmic Spore wrote:


Other than:

Quote:
"It's a drug that's produced from the root of the mimosa plant. That's legal to purchase, you can actually buy (the root) on the internet, but to actually reduce it and make it into drug is against the law."

Detective Keith Honore, do your homework; don't tell the public its legal if there is legal risk or illegality.


This part struck me too, but I take it as a good sign that at least that cop, and maybe his precinct by extension, are carrying on as if you haven't broken the law until you start isolating alkaloids or compounds. We all know the CSA disagrees, but since most of these busts are made by local or state cops maybe its good they aren't policing that way?
Forge a Path with Heart <3
 
Guyomech
#10 Posted : 6/24/2014 2:55:34 AM

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I'm not under the impression that LEO are actually finding these single-user extraction operations, simply that they are aware of them (most likely from sites like ours). My guess is that the once-a-year busts are of the larger, messier, stupider variety of extraction operation. Nonetheless, this is a reminder of discretion.
 
wearepeople
#11 Posted : 6/24/2014 3:39:15 AM

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This is the first time I've read a bust report and not been completely appalled by misinformation.

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AcaciaConfusedYah
#12 Posted : 6/24/2014 5:51:15 AM

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Seeing pictures of the bust and the materials they consider as evidence surely wasn't very comforting. It didn't look like a huge scale operation based on the pics... I only saw one jar of what appeared to be a based mix. Not that I know what that looks like.... I just assume. ...

"Authorities say the apartment raided Sunday night by LAPD officers was strategically located near several college campuses and served as a distribution point for a dangerous hallucinogen known as "DMT." "


Well, that makes a little more sense.


No neighbors, no apartments, no college campus
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HumbleTraveler
#13 Posted : 6/24/2014 7:47:17 AM

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"Drug induced psychosis"


No, no nnonononono. A welcome to unforeseen, unimaginable planes of existence.

Ketamine or belladona, drug induced psychosis would be accurate. Wouldnt see me touch either of those with someone elses 10 foot pole.



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Nathanial.Dread
#14 Posted : 6/24/2014 5:09:20 PM

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HumbleTraveler wrote:
"Drug induced psychosis"


No, no nnonononono. A welcome to unforeseen, unimaginable planes of existence.

Ketamine or belladona, drug induced psychosis would be accurate. Wouldnt see me touch either of those with someone elses 10 foot pole.



Thumbs down

By almost every standard definition of the term, a classically psychedelic experience is also a psychotic one. LSD was the gold-standard for pharmacological models of psychosis before the NMDA receptor antagonists came onto the scene and there are people who find a ketamine experience just as profound as a DMT one.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
SnozzleBerry
#15 Posted : 6/24/2014 5:35:30 PM

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Nathanial.Dread wrote:

By almost every standard definition of the term, a classically psychedelic experience is also a psychotic one.

Not so much...

"From a contemporary perspective, overwhelming and compelling evidence indicates that shamanism as a practice is distinctly different from schizophrenia. Shamans and other spiritual experts have experiences that are culturally prescribed, at times that are culturally appropriate, and they usually have had a choice about whether to embrace their roles. People with schizophrenia do not have this choice. Many of those who work in the area presume that shamans and other spiritual experts draw on a psychological capacity for dissociation and absorption, whereas schizophrenia is a psychotic process (Peters & Price-Williams 1980, Noll 1983, Stephens & Suryani 2000)."

(Luhrmann, 2011)
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Nathanial.Dread
#16 Posted : 6/24/2014 5:44:20 PM

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To have a psychotic experience, you need some combination of these symptoms:

Hallucinations
Delusions
Catatonia
Thought Disorder

If you think back to all of your psychedelic experiences, I'm pretty sure you'll find all of those at some point. Hallucinations are the obvious ones, delusions are also very common (think paranoia, or that there are beings in the space with you, you are Christ, etc).

Catatonia is a little less common, but I have seen it happen. Thought disorder, of course, is ubiquitous.

The thing about psychosis is that it does not describe a neurological process so much as it is a cluster of symptoms. Ergo, if you display 3/4 symptoms, you qualify as 'psychotic,' regardless of what the neural process that got you there looks like.

The problem is, we insist on putting a moral judgement on psychosis. We read that word and think "bad." That's also not true. Psychosis is just a collection of symptoms. Nothing more.

"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
SnozzleBerry
#17 Posted : 6/24/2014 5:51:53 PM

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Please read the paper I linked in the above post. The body of work that could be said to represent modern understandings of psychosis and psychedelic experiences does not treat them as one-in-the-same. Dr. Tanya Luhrmann has written extensively on this and her paper (linked above) presents valuable explanations as to why equating the two should be a non-starter.
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iracema
#18 Posted : 6/24/2014 6:56:35 PM

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oh, that's insane
 
Nathanial.Dread
#19 Posted : 6/24/2014 8:08:04 PM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
Please read the paper I linked in the above post. The body of work that could be said to represent modern understandings of psychosis and psychedelic experiences does not treat them as one-in-the-same. Dr. Tanya Luhrmann has written extensively on this and her paper (linked above) presents valuable explanations as to why equating the two should be a non-starter.

I read the paper, and I was unimpressed, for a number of reasons. The biggest one is that the author appears to be drawing arbitrary lines between 'psychosis' and frequent, hallucinatory phenomena that, for whatever reason, aren't 'psychotic.' They appear to be using a definition of 'psychosis' that doesn't match the accepted one.

They describe psychotic or schizophrenic hallucinations as 'caustic,' and 'unpleasant,' without ever providing any kind of source for that extremely broad claim. Are all schizophrenic or psychotic hallucinations unpleasant? Not according to everyone (including some schizophrenic relatives). I also have never seen 'unpleasantness' or 'distress' as part of the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia, and yet, the author using it as the primary method to differentiate 'real' psychosis from the Joan of Arc pattern.

This paper also only appears to look at psychosis when it comes in the form of schizophrenia, but leaves out another huge phenomena: psychosis in bipolar mania. If you look up experience reports of what being severely manic feels like, many people describe something to a psychedelic trip (brightened colors, HD vision, feelings of insight, euphoria, and also paranoia and delusions). Exactly where do those fall?

I feel as though this paper is making a huge value judgement on the phenomena of psychosis, and then altering how certain experiences are described so that they fit in the right box. I again refer you to the constellation of four symptoms that defines psychosis in a medical context. If you meet those criteria (or 3/4), you are psychotic.

That makes no value judgement on your experiences or your worth as a person. It just says you match this pattern. That's how psychiatry works (or should, in theory).
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
SnozzleBerry
#20 Posted : 6/24/2014 8:26:44 PM

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Nathanial.Dread wrote:
I again refer you to the constellation of four symptoms that defines psychosis in a medical context. If you meet those criteria (or 3/4), you are psychotic.

Source (for the 3/4 statement)?

I don't find your critique particularly compelling, but then again, I'm not interested in equating psychosis and intentionally induced altered states. Seeing as Luhrmann also had a hand in "What a Shaman Sees in a Mental Hospital" I would contest your assertion about value judgement, but again, I'm not particularly interested in this debate. The reason being that I think one enters into distasteful and somewhat alarming territory when one attempts to argue that folks who are willfully altering their perceptual reality are entering into the same arena as folks who do not have a choice in the matter.
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