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What would you do with a paranoid, dark human entity? Options
 
Samadeus
#1 Posted : 6/16/2014 11:42:21 PM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


SWIM knows a man who distrusts the world and prefers to live completely in his own head. He is convinced that there is a God and a Devil and that all evil and all evil people are controlled by the Devil in hiding. He sees himself as a crusader of light, here to fight "the Devil in the world around him" and to hold back the forces of darkness.

He believes that God speaks to him directly, and he sees flashes of light when he's out walking that give him inspiration and insights. He doesn't understand that this is just his subconscious realizing things and working things through - that's how the subconscious works. He's sure he is Chosen, even though he hasn't applied any of his insights and has never created anything or done anything in his whole life. He's over 70 now. Surely if they were divine insights he would have actually done something with them. Instead, he's content with just swimming endlessly in his own mind, running marathons of the mind and feeling like he's accomplished something, while he's literally standing completely still in the physical, having achieved nothing real whatsoever.

He's also paranoid. When he buys groceries in a store, he checks all of his food containers to make sure they don't let out air, to make sure nobody has poked a hole into the containers and injected something. Furthermore, he never goes to the doctor and never takes prescription medications for anything (even simple infections), because he is paranoid that anything hand-delivered and addressed specifically to him has been tampered with. For instance, one time he wanted his online order of OMEGA 3-capsules to be ordered by somebody else, because he was sure that people in a different country who have never heard about him, would nonetheless poison the capsules.

Whenever he leaves his apartment, he packs all of his food into his backpack so that nobody can poison it while he is gone. This is despite having 4 different sets of locks on his front door. He even has locks that are embedded in the locks to prevent you from inserting keys (lockception).

He believes the Israeli mossad is spying on him and that all of his phone calls are recorded.

In short, he's a self-destructive bastard; a seething vortex of dark energy and suffocation. He gets nothing done in life and he can't let go of his delusions no matter how much people try to help him.

All attempts to use logic and human words and reasoning to get him to wake up have failed. Human words and giving him more help in the material world does nothing for him. Everything he hears is filtered by his own world view and you can give him a 3 hour speech about letting go of the trivial and the artificial garbage in life, and he will only listen to and absorb the snippets that support his delusions. Everything else washes off of him. There is no way to help him via Earthly medicine or words.


He's no danger to himself or anyone else. It's not that kind of mental illness. It's merely a compulsive, fear-based obsession with the physical. The root cause of his problems is that he's compulsively obsessed with the physical, material part of the world and takes it all as deadly serious. He gets extremely involved in following politics and the drama of the world, as if it mattered, and wastes the majority of his waking hours poring over newspapers and thinking about political issues. If only he could see that he's staring himself blind at some pebbles (Earth) without realizing that there's a beach all around him (the Universe, the One Consciousness...), and that he is free to let go of all of his physically-based worries. If the cork could be unplugged and he could finally be made to let go of the physical world, he would be able to live his last years in peace at last, no longer constantly and incessantly involved in politics and the material...

His obsession with politics spills over into all interactions with him, and it's unbearable to be around him since he constantly focuses and talks about all of the perceived catastrophes all around him. He's a perfect example of a physical-world based mind who tries to control the external world and prevent it from crumbling, without realizing that it's not his job and that everything is the way it should be. The Universe knows best. Not some random 70 year old man.



SWIM sees two potential ways of dealing with him:

End all contact with this suffocating being.

Or get him to shut the hell up by showing him the Universe via DMT, finally crushing all of his paranoid illusions and his destructive, incessant focus on everything that is material.



How would SWIY act in this situation? Those are the only two options.
 

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AcaciaConfusedYah
#2 Posted : 6/16/2014 11:50:53 PM

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The thing about DMT is that it might kick the thoughts of "being chosen" into over-drive. Maybe not, he may get a humbling slap in the face.

Tough situation. I, personally, wouldn't feel too bad if I had to walk away from a person like that.
Sometimes it's good for a change. Other times it isn't.
 
Samadeus
#3 Posted : 6/17/2014 12:03:36 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


AcaciaConfusedYah wrote:
The thing about DMT is that it might kick the thoughts of "being chosen" into over-drive. Maybe not, he may get a humbling slap in the face.

Tough situation. I, personally, wouldn't feel too bad if I had to walk away from a person like that.


I suspect that he will get one of these three possible outcomes on DMT:

1. He might visually confront all of his demons and all of his deep fear. Taking DMT would be very scary for him and would give him a bad mindset from the beginning, let alone what happens later in the trip! He might have the scariest trip ever imaginable. That would just reinforce his views that the Devil is everywhere, and that he has just seen the Devil, and may even mess with his mind even more, turning this somewhat-reasonable (minus his delusions) man into someone who becomes completely unhinged.

2. It is possible that DMT really is a portal to the truth behind the Universe and has a consciousness, and it may therefore choose to ignore his entrance-fears (not give him a "bad trip" despite his mind being primed for it) and may instead do the right thing: Giving him "a slap" and then dissolving his ego, showing him that he has no clue what is going on in this world, and finally helping him let go of the darkness that he harbors. Basically slapping the deluded ideas about the world out of him.

3. Lastly, it might even give him feelings of Godhood when he realizes that we are all One. Not sure how he would react to that... But he would definitely be nicer if he ends up walking around on clouds and felt love for everything and everyone, instead of paranoid disgust and scorn and fear towards the world.


The other option is to leave him. He's old now and he's pretty much down to his last chance to let go of his delusions, and it's clear that there is absolutely no Earthly way of doing it. He has a deep distrust of everything outside his own mind, and a massive superiority complex. For instance, seeing a psychologist would cause him to analyze the shrink instead of listening.

You can't cure a man with that mindset using Earthly means. His mind is already made up and he is always sure that he knows best and knows the truth of what is going on. He's extremely involved in following politics and all of the petty issues in the world for this reason; he sees himself as someone who truly "gets" the world and feels like he alone has the mental capacity to solve all world issues - but in over 70 years on this Earth he hasn't done anything for anyone or affected any change anywhere. It's all in his mind, and it's clear that he will not let go of this voluntarily.


Does anyone have experience with paranoid and mildly insane people taking DMT?
 
V01D
#4 Posted : 6/17/2014 12:16:27 AM

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I'm no psychologist, but IMO schizophrenia (which is what this person seems to be exhibiting)is most likely only going to be made worse with tryptamines and psychedelics in general. This person would be much better off seeking professional help; even if it means taking prescription medicine prescribed by a psychiatrist.
 
Samadeus
#5 Posted : 6/17/2014 12:20:20 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


His illness manifests itself in an unhealthy obsession with politics and a constant fear-based outlook on life.

Professional help will never happen. He distrusts all medicine, all doctors, and all psychologists, through simultaneously feeling that he is the most intelligent human being alive, while also feeling like the world is out to get him.

That's why I figured that the only way to slap the obsession with the physical world out of such a person would be to *show* him that there's more out there. Then he could finally stop staring himself blind on Earthly problems.


I've heard a lot about schizophrenics becoming worse on hallucinogens, but a lot of that is propaganda. It doesn't seem to be the trip-experience that determines whether they become sicker or healthier after a trip. It's their ability to grasp what they have witnessed in hyperspace, and whether it helps them let go of their delusions or reinforces them.
 
Samadeus
#6 Posted : 6/17/2014 12:51:22 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


I just had a realization.

Ignore all the fear-based propaganda about hallucinogens and schizophrenia and let's instead look at the actual psyches of the people involved.


Schizophrenia is basically an unhealthy, deluded world-view and an inability to identify that your own world-view is unhealthy. It doesn't in itself mean that you are violent or sick in any other ways. Moreover, it's actually a dismissive, "incurable" label towards a mind which may be healthy but has simply walked for too long down the wrong mental track.

When a mild schizophrenic (someone with strong ties to their own mildly deluded world-view but no major insanity) takes DMT and sees the Universe, they'll have an experience just like everybody else.

That experience will either be so strong that it shatters their old world view and changes their life completely, or otherwise it will have to at the very least be explained by and assimilated into their old world view (possibly with some healthy modifications to their outlook and some personal growth in the process).

The process above is no different from a healthy person taking DMT and being forced to deal with what they have seen. Everyone has to deal with what they have seen.


The only time that a delusional person would have serious problems after a psychedelic, is if they're not MERELY delusional, but also violence- or depression-prone. In those cases, their overwhelming experience could overload their frail little minds and could trigger a "fight or flight" panic reaction and cause them to lash out at their surroundings.


The man that SWIM knows has absolutely no violent streaks, and is very intelligent. He's just deluded and obsessively involved with the political drama of the physical, material world around him, as if it was important.

He would be intelligent enough to deal with whatever he sees in hyperspace in a rational way. It may even finally help him let go of the weight of the physical world and its worries and to also confront his fear over his upcoming death. At his age you're not expected to live longer than perhaps 5-10 more years, and he's very afraid. Helping him let go of the physical as well as his fear of death would finally give him some peace of mind.


This is not to say that the decision has been made to give him DMT. Merely that there's actually a good potential for personal growth, especially if it starts with very low doses to gradually help him let go of his ego and his fears.

SWIM had fallen for the propaganda of "unleashing hidden psychosis" and that's why the topic was made, but now realizes that it requires an intense, sick, violent person to begin with. The man that SWIM knows is anything but that. He's intelligent and mild-mannered. Just... too wrapped up in the drama of the material world.
 
Samadeus
#7 Posted : 6/17/2014 1:16:43 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


Wow...

http://www.maps.org/news...ters/v07n3/07318fis.html


Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin
Gary Fisher, Ph.D.

And... it worked.

These were kids with the most violent schizophrenia imaginable. Not just a disturbing level of schizophrenia, but also severe psychosis. Sitting down and rocking, lashing out at people who approached them, biting, throwing feces and urine, etc. And yet - it cured many of them either completely or to the point that they became high-functioning and calm individuals that regained speech and their connection to the world. Alright, I recommend everyone who has ever said "psychedelics cause psychosis" to read that entire paper top to bottom. Wonderful stuff.


Now remember that the man that the thread is about is nowhere near that level of sickness. His problem is that he is intelligent but stuck in a fear-based, overly-material world view where everything around him is extremely serious. He never has a chance to relax and let go of the world and its petty, material drama. That's what DMT could do for him at last. Everything else has failed.
 
Ufostrahlen
#8 Posted : 6/17/2014 6:15:33 AM

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Quote:
"psychedelics cause psychosis"

Set and setting Cool

Quote:
Psilocybin, an indoleamine hallucinogen, produces a psychosis-like syndrome in humans that resembles first episodes of schizophrenia. In healthy human volunteers, the psychotomimetic effects of psilocybin were blocked dose-dependently by the serotonin-2A antagonist ketanserin or the atypical antipsychotic risperidone, but were increased by the dopamine antagonist and typical antipsychotic haloperidol. These data are consistent with animal studies and provide the first evidence in humans that psilocybin-induced psychosis is due to serotonin-2A receptor activation, independently of dopamine stimulation. Thus, serotonin-2A overactivity may be involved in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia and serotonin-2A antagonism may contribute to therapeutic effects of antipsychotics.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9875725
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jungleDNBplz
#9 Posted : 6/17/2014 7:49:14 AM

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I would not administer only DMT but would be sure to offer pure harmaloids, and as for reconstructing his daily egoic tendencies in a healthier manner, LSDMT would be ideal IMO
 
TiHKAL
#10 Posted : 6/17/2014 8:35:22 AM

Nullius in verba.


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Good luck.
 
V01D
#11 Posted : 6/17/2014 9:02:33 AM

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While I don't feel comfortable giving you medical or psychological advice as I am not a doctor, or even a college grad for that matter, I do wish you all the best in trying to find a feasible solution to help this fellow human feel less fear <3
 
hug46
#12 Posted : 6/17/2014 9:23:20 AM

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I am sorry but i think that giving a deluded 70 year DMT is a bad idea. Unless they themselves express a desire to take it. I do not think that it is our right to show people the truth (whatever the hell that is anyway). It is a personal decision. This all sounds a bit fundamentalistic to me.
 
3rdI
#13 Posted : 6/17/2014 10:06:05 AM

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Samadeus wrote:
Or get him to shut the hell up by showing him the Universe via DMT, finally crushing all of his paranoid illusions and his destructive, incessant focus on everything that is material.

this seems about as intelligent as punching a grizzly in his grizzlies.

what if you show him "The Truth" and it gives him a horrible experience and leads to him being worse than before with the addition of multidimensional being that are around at all times, are all powerfull and want to take him away like thay did before. He could spend his time knowing they are everywhere and there is no escape.

I could see it esculating into a nasty place. I am mentally stable and stong minded and the Magic has really hit me for six in the few years, i would have been very unimpressed if i was mentally instable and then someone dosed me with DMT.

i would just be a friend to him or leave him alone.
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
SKA
#14 Posted : 6/17/2014 10:47:58 AM
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isaaczibre wrote:
I'm no psychologist, but IMO schizophrenia (which is what this person seems to be exhibiting)is most likely only going to be made worse with tryptamines and psychedelics in general. This person would be much better off seeking professional help; even if it means taking prescription medicine prescribed by a psychiatrist.



Actually the man that Samadeus described, doesn't come off as Schizophrenic to me at all.
Schizophrenia is characterised by auditory and/or visual hallucinations. This man didn't report seeing or hearing things & beings that people around him can't percieve.
The Delusions and general disconnection with reality that this man suffers are symptoms of Psychosis. A very long, persistant psychosis.

That is different from Schizophrenia, although it often(ifnot allways) accompanies Schizophrenia. However Schizophrenia does NOT per se always accompany Psychosis.

This man seems to suffer from a psychotic state with paranoid delusions.



I recognise this state as I have spent a little over a year in such a state(when I was abt. 15y/o) and during extreme psychological distress I may briefly regress back into that (dreadfull) state.



To be quite honoust, Samadeus, given the man's age and character his mind is likely too rigid and stubborn to be transformed by DMT. We Nexians are young. We keep our minds young and flexible. Under the stress of Psychedelic experiences we bend along, like bamboo.

This man's mind seems more akin to a rigid, stiff tree that has become brittle because of molds. Under the stress of a psychedelic experience he may be very likely to snap like a match-stick. He may then become totally unhinged, as you feared, and on top of things he may come to blame you for it and come see you as "collaborating with the Devil".

It's a slippery slope I wouldn't attempt to walk if I were you. The Spice may be alot better spent on other people you know or may get to know.
 
Shanghigher
#15 Posted : 6/17/2014 10:53:37 AM

Burning the locals, abusing the tourists, terrifying the help.


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Giving DMT to a schizophrenic seems like a massive flashing red flag with spotlights, fireworks, and a marching cheerleader band just in case it didn't get your attention the first time around. I can't say without actually knowing the guy if this is the condition he's got for sure, it does check all the right boxes.

Whilst I don't know this guy (stabbing a guess that he's your father), I do know schizophrenia from working in mental health a few years back. You are basically dealing with people who, for all intents and purposes, are already on one, long bad and permanent trip. Giving him DMT could cause him all sorts of hellish grief and could exacerbate his condition. We're talking about a condition here where a single spliff can send the person spiraling out of control here - imagine where DMT might take him. Treatment with drugs we don't fully understand is reckless and dangerous. It's all very well and good you doing DMT for your own reasons, but perhaps this man enjoys his fantasy land.

You also have to think of the fallout if you broke him. I accidentally broke someone's faith once, and I regretted it instantly. I was approached whilst drunk by a Christian offering out hotdogs and chats to various people in Cardiff. I took him up on the offer, and hit him hard with logic and reason. We got down to the core of why he believes - because his wife and daughter died in a car crash - and we got there too late. I'd already broken him, and robbed him of the only thing that made sense of the pain for him. I still feel awful to this day, and pretty much gave up on atheist rants on the spot. Imagine if you broke this old man now - 5-10 years away from death, and his whole life wasted.

Totally agree with 3rdI, you either have the choice of supporting this man or making some distance between you two. As someone who's younger life was ravaged with a mother suffering from bi-polar disorder, I eventually opted for the latter so I could actually live my own life.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson
 
Samadeus
#16 Posted : 6/17/2014 11:26:17 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


jungleDNBplz wrote:
I would not administer only DMT but would be sure to offer pure harmaloids, and as for reconstructing his daily egoic tendencies in a healthier manner, LSDMT would be ideal IMO


That is an excellent idea, since harmaloids are calming. Here's a good protocol:

* Harmalas sublingually 40 minutes before the experience.
* Soft, quiet, uplifting ambient music in headphones to guide the journey and relax him.
* Blindfolds to avoid disorientation of open-eye visuals (and the risk of seeing those around him as reptiles, hehe). This idea is taken from the Strassman protocol where it was very helpful in calming the person.
* Set and setting: Calming him as much as possible, letting him know it's biologically harmless and that DMT already exists in his body. The sofa of his most comfortable place of living. Reassuring him that it will only take a few minutes and that he will always come back and that everything is "just visuals" "an inner world which cannot affect your outer world or your physical body". Reminding him that nothing can ever harm him and that "Pull faces at it, usually the entities find it amusing, start laughing and the trip becomes a better one." (Nice way of putting it.) Helping him have the intention of seeing the love in the Universe (also aided by the music guiding his mind in that direction).
* Gradually increasing dose and letting him integrate each level of experience before moving higher.


isaaczibre wrote:
While I don't feel comfortable giving you medical or psychological advice as I am not a doctor, or even a college grad for that matter, I do wish you all the best in trying to find a feasible solution to help this fellow human feel less fear <3


Thank you. There is nothing more liberating for the soul than DMT. My gut feeling says that it would be the way for people like him to finally come to peace. Words don't help much. He's clinging to his life of bad habits as a comforting blanket, and places a large portion of his identity in those habits. At least 40 years of his life have been outright wasted, and he doesn't dare to confront that fact. But DMT would show him that it is okay to finally let go; that he is timeless and perfect and loved by the Universe just the way he is. Smile I believe he was "made this way" for the sake of those around him. They've all experienced tremendous growth through the challenges faced by him. Now they've grown and no longer need him to be sick, and he's in turn treading water and seems ready for the next step, but he needs a stronger push than mere words can provide.


Ufostrahlen wrote:


Great read top to bottom! Shows how much suggestibility and entrance-fear can guide your mind to seek out darker experiences.
 
3rdI
#17 Posted : 6/17/2014 11:34:40 AM

veni, vidi, spici


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INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
Samadeus
#18 Posted : 6/17/2014 11:44:30 AM
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[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


SKA wrote:
Actually the man that Samadeus described, doesn't come off as Schizophrenic to me at all.
Schizophrenia is characterised by auditory and/or visual hallucinations. This man didn't report seeing or hearing things & beings that people around him can't percieve.
The Delusions and general disconnection with reality that this man suffers are symptoms of Psychosis. A very long, persistant psychosis.

That is different from Schizophrenia, although it often(ifnot allways) accompanies Schizophrenia. However Schizophrenia does NOT per se always accompany Psychosis.

This man seems to suffer from a psychotic state with paranoid delusions.


Thanks, that's interesting. His mind is actually very easy to read. He's not as complex as he thinks. What we have is a very intelligent man who has developed an obsessive compulsion with certain thoughts. He is capable of very intelligent logical reasoning. It's just that he has a portion of himself that is anchored so hard to the physical that it consumes him.


Shanghigher wrote:
Totally agree with 3rdI, you either have the choice of supporting this man or making some distance between you two. As someone who's younger life was ravaged with a mother suffering from bi-polar disorder, I eventually opted for the latter so I could actually live my own life.


To everyone saying it's a bad idea:

It's tough to get his personality and a lifetime across in a few words. He is healthier than it sounds. He's got a huge heart and high intelligence and the ability to reason logically with anything he would experience. His problem is that he's so entrenched in his patterns of taking the world too seriously. He became sick through having to rely solely on himself as the arbiter of what's true in the world (since he's so far above most people's intelligence), thereby giving undue credence to his more outlandish ideas. This steadily grew throughout his life, as he added layers upon layers of thought and continued walking too far down the wrong road.

"There is a thin line between genius and madness" - never have truer words been spoken. Genius creates loneliness and a feeling of isolation and traps you with your own thoughts.

He actually had extremely good reasons that the Mossad was spying on him, but that was about 4 decades ago! He hasn't let go of those events and actions to this day. He has been on lots of different watch lists (not just the Mossad), although I highly doubt they would still carry on watching him to this day. I doubt they want anything to do with a washed-up 70 year old. He doesn't see it that way and assumes people are still watching.


SKA wrote:
To be quite honoust, Samadeus, given the man's age and character his mind is likely too rigid and stubborn to be transformed by DMT. We Nexians are young. We keep our minds young and flexible. Under the stress of Psychedelic experiences we bend along, like bamboo.

This man's mind seems more akin to a rigid, stiff tree that has become brittle because of molds. Under the stress of a psychedelic experience he may be very likely to snap like a match-stick. He may then become totally unhinged, as you feared, and on top of things he may come to blame you for it and come see you as "collaborating with the Devil".

It's a slippery slope I wouldn't attempt to walk if I were you. The Spice may be alot better spent on other people you know or may get to know.


That was my initial fear. Not from myself, but from the constant concern of others. "You hear so much about people snapping," - that kind of thing. But this isn't a man who would ever lash out at anyone or himself, and he is capable of rational thought.

At worst, he would integrate the experience using his old world-view, like the Hindu priest who took DMT and tried to brush it away as "mere karmic hallucinations to challenge my faith in the Hindu religion."

But you know that gut feeling that guides you in life? Intuition? The solar plexus? It has constantly been telling me that seeing the greater Universe all around him is exactly what a person like him needs in order to let go: "Either you give him the gift of a liberating hyperslap; or you have to let go of him. He's the kind of being who isn't "attracting" negative energy; he is negative energy, and that is why he sucks all the air out of any room he enters. You cannot wash his soul through any Earthly means; he will keep re-accumulating his heavy shroud of negativity. The only way to wash him is to help him transcend and to finally let go of the role he took on in this reality."
 
Ryusaki
#19 Posted : 6/17/2014 11:55:22 AM

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If the patient does not want the threatment, does not ask for it, does not believe in a positive outcome; then it won't work. Simple as that.

If he is psychotic and has paranoid delusions, it might even increase his suffering.

Stop
 
Samadeus
#20 Posted : 6/17/2014 12:03:05 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 47
Joined: 14-Jun-2014
Last visit: 26-Aug-2014
[Edit to reveal the truth at last: Everything that I said in this thread was made up and was part of me playing a character, to gauge how all of you would react to the concept of treating schizophrenic people with psychedelics. The man in the story does not exist. My main goal was simply to get a taboo concept back into your minds, and to remind you that this fear about "psychedelics and mental illness" is a very recent phenomenon - and that not long ago, in the 50s and 60s, there were extremely successful studies that actually used psychedelics to treat insanity. Then came the drug scare and the hyped-up, false claims as the war on drugs began... But scientists are now starting to re-discover these benefits, and are finding more and more uses for sacred molecules to treat diseases of the mind. A return visit to the Universe is often exactly what a depressed or schizophrenic person needs, and I am happy to see that the winds are slowly changing. In a not too distant future, we may all be psychonauts, and it will be seen as naturally by the western world as it is currently seen by the much wiser, ancient shamanic tribes that revere and treat their souls with these sacred compounds. There is a gigantic, untapped and forbidden world out there, and it is humanity's birthright to be allowed to return to it to remember who they are... Love and peace.]


Ryusaki wrote:
If the patient does not want the threatment, does not ask for it, does not believe in a positive outcome; then it won't work. Simple as that.


I agree with that; however, he has the complete capacity for achieving the right mindset and understanding and integrating what he would be seeing, and that's why it is so important to guide him gently to allay all his fears.

A need for careful handling also goes for any other person trying to introduce sick people to hyperspace as a means of curing them.
 
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