So SWIM has been experimenting with some methods of ingestion using fumarate. Thus far SWIM has performed 3 trials.

The first trial SWIM and his wife each took 75 mg of caapi copy in a gel cap. They then waited a little over 5 minutes and ingested 30 - 35 mg of fumarate also in a gel cap. This resulted in a warm, dreamy sort of hazy few hours, before falling asleep easy and peacefully. SWIM suspects that this was mostly the result of the caapi.

The second trial SWIM and his wife each took 150 mg of caapi copy in a gel cap. They then waited 20 minutes before ingesting 40 mg each of fumarate in a gel cap. This yielded similar results, but they felt sleepier than the first trial. Again, no real psychedelic activity.

Then they read that gel caps have caused problems for others on the forum, so they performed the third trial by putting 200 mg of caapi copy in a shot glass along with 40 - 45 mg of fumarate, and dissolved it all in juice. They then downed it, and this yielded borderline psychedelic effects, and there was definitely not the same overwhelming sleepiness of the previous trials.

So what SWIM was wondering was, is this the correct method of ingestion? Time-wise, should they wait any amount of time after taking the caapi, before ingesting the fumarate?

Also, they had said that they were running low on the caapi copy, and so were wondering if they could take it sublingually in a smaller dose to conserve it, and still get the MAOI effects needed to activate the fumarate? Dosages for this method would be appreciated, as well as time, if any, needed between taking the two.

Any info would be awesome, and thanks to everyone for all that has already been provided as a result of this site.

I have seen 45 minutes after ingestion mentioned as the point where the MAO inhibiting effects were peaking. However, this was for the MAOI effect of Blackcurrant. I have no idea what substances in Blackcurrant inhibits MAO, but as they do inhibit MAO-A I assume they are beta-carbolines (or something very similar) like caapi. Maybe "someone who is you" could try different timeframes with the same dose of b-carbolines and post the results here?

what SWIM usually does is this

he takes 100mg of THH...40mg harmaline and maybe a few mg of harmine...he puts this in hot water...then he adds about 50-60mg of dmt fumarate...and stirs it all together as best as he can...and then downs it..

THEN he eats something..like a bowl of cereal...bread...or even a beer...something to make the stomach feel like it should be digesting something...he usually starts feeling effects in about 5 minutes...and then actually starts tripping around the 20 minute mark...then the peak hits maybe 30 minutes after that..

I'm jumping on the Pharma band wagon soon, would be cool to get peoples different opinions. I was planning on doing the same as you narmz - maybe you just need more DMT. I take it you've tried sub MAOI and eaten DMT before Jorkest but this is your preferred method?

Thanks guys, this is good info. SWIM is still curious about the sublingual dose however, though he will eventually try a rue extraction to yield a bit more harma to allow for more oral trials.

For oral experiments SWIM takes 200mg harmine/harmaline mixture. Waits one half hour. Then takes 20-40mg dmt freebase. With fumarate the dose should be a bit higher because the molecule weighs more you can calculate the equivalent dose to freebase.

Sublingual SWIM has no experience with but certain substances don't absorb as well via this method. Not sure how effective beta-carbolines are at absorbing sublingual. For sublingual dosing a gel cap will interfere. You can try adding a substance to loosen up the membranes in your mouth such as a small dose (less then a milliliter) of a food safe essential oil. Although SWIM has no direct experience with doing such things such techniques are used in various kinds of pharmacuetical formulations to aid in uptake of a substance by sublingual route.

So you use what.. gel caps?

No, theres really no point.

Okk so how then?

Also, does the freebase DMT have to be recrystallised or does a yellow mix not make any difference in terms of an angry stomach?

I'm not sure but I think it maybe a matter of DMT dosage...especially considering the fumarate weighs more than the freebase, and you are feeling the sedating effects of the caapi present, but with low DMT activity. 30/35mg of fumarate seems like a very low dose to me...

Last night I tried 150mg Moclobemide with a capsule of 125mg DMT fumarate taken 45 mins later with a little food in my stomach. (Thanks for the heads up about the capsules though).

It was really nice for sure, but really mild at the same time (my first time trying fumarate though).

So its maybe a matter of dosage..however when I take freebase with caapi, I take between 200/250mg of high quality freebase DMT extract, which may well be a higher dose than some people use (works fine for me though).

"If in doubt, double the dose" as old Terrence used to say (although this advice may get on into very deep water one day, lol).

Well when SWIM doses SWIM harmaline and harmine alkaloids in salt form so they are water soluble. So just take a show of them. DMT freebase is not in salt form so either dissolve it in acidic water (water with some lemon juice or something) or just take it and throw it in your mouth and wash it down. If you are using dmt salts then its soluble in water so just dissolve in water and drink.

Would it work just fine to dissolve the Freebase DMT + Harmalas in orange juice?

WS

Yup... that should convert the alks to citrates.

It works very well

Nice!!

I was going to try the gel-cap method again soon, but I know that drinking the goods dissolved in a liquid, like when taking true Aya, helps to absorb the alks much more efficiently.
I just don't have enough DMT left to bother with the FASA process this time...

I tried a mixture of the 3 Harmalas + 50mg FB-DMT in a gel-cap last week & it took 45 minutes for only mild effects to soak in.
I've taken this same exact combination of Harmalas & DMT-HCl dissolved in warm water before & got strong effects, that started in 10-15 minutes, full on by 30 minutes.

So I'm guessing the gel-caps slow things down more than I previously thought.
I realize that FB-DMT takes longer to absorb, but taken at the same time as the Harmalas, I was thinking that it would time-out pretty well.
But it didn't...


Thanks for the tip!

WS

I think that body mass may also make a big difference here. A FOAF's method is 2.5 mg/kg of harmalas (rue extract/cappi copy) and 1 mg/kg of fumarate. For instance, a FOAF weighs about 150 lbs, or about 70 kg, so this would be 175 mg of harmalas and 70 mg of fumarate.

The harmalas are mixed with lemon or lime juice prior to ingestion to convert from freebase to a citrate salt. This is ingested about 30 minutes before the fumarates which are prepared in the same way with lemon or lime juice.

If a second dose is planned later in the night the amount of harmalas in the second preparation can be cut way back to maybe 1 mg/kg while leaving the fumarate concentration the same. Additionally, both harmalas and fumarates can be drank together in the second dose, as the harmalas from the first dose are still somewhat active.

The amount of fumarate needed can be adjusted up or down for stronger/weaker effects. For SWIM, 1 mg/kg has yeilded strong effects.

Tribal - Excellent observations. Agreed completely as they match investigations on this end.

warrensaged - Re: gel caps slowing things down. Totally agreed. They don't make the contents inactive but they slow things down massively so the timing has to change for successful inhibition.

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Some more related info on effects of gel caps to add to the pot:

- 100mg THH hcl + 60mg rue fb, dissolved in vinegar, evapped to goo, scraped into gel cap.
- 60mg mimosa fb, dissolved in vinegar, evapped to goo, scraped into gel cap.

(The vinegar dissolve/evap was done as an experiment to 'convert' the fb to acetate? Thinking perhaps to create less stomach shock, instead of introducing a bunch of undiluted fb to the acidic environment of the stomach, and perhaps help facilitate faster/smoother absorption.)

1.5 hours after ingesting harmala gel cap, still no harmala effects felt. Normally, full harmala effects would be felt within 20-30 min of ingesting harmalas dissolved in a shot of vinegar + water, or 1/2 cup orange juice.

Regardless, spice gel cap ingested at 1.5 hour mark. 1+ hours later, still no noticeable harmala effects. However, onset of closed eye spice visuals arrived so harmalas must have become active.

+30-60 minutes later waves of mild to moderate harmala effects including potential nausea which did not manifest to full nausea. Onset of complete spice effects including overwhelming full open eye chrysanthemum white light 3D structural and organic geometry and visionary landscapes. Peak lasted 1+ hours, overwhelming full body euphoria and other worldly visuals. 2+ hour comfortable comedown.

Thoughts:
- gel caps slow down absorption by a huge factor, therefore combining harmalas + spice in a single gel cap is probably a huge waste of spice
- slightly less harmalas (100thh + 40 rue extract) with slightly less spice (40mg) dissolved in separate shots of vinegar+water would probably be ideal for this subject as nausea was still felt (nausea actually comes from combination of both: excessive harmalas and excessive spice), subject is ~165lbs.
- this is still not a recreational dose, but ideal for safe outdoor nature (non public) environment at night

Be safe.

Thanks for your thoughts freethinker!